68 réponses à ce sujet

[Saphiron123]

Sneaking around the back of a dragon to nab some materials in the forest. I'm safe, I'm distant, my party has been told to hold their ground.

Suddenly the music starts, because Varrick ran up to my cloaked character and shot the dragon in the ass.

Origins had a hold position that worked, and I could set my characters to not shoot the dragon in the ass unless I wanted them to. How is a 2015 dragon age sequel unable to handle these basic commands?

Meanwhile Solas, who actually held his ground, buffs himself and only himself.

This game will never be complete without a tactics menu.

[b10d1v]

It is so bad that I resorted to going alone!   Yes, Bioware you developed a tactics toy that is so problemattic that people go it alone forgoing all their characters because it is such an unreliable pain in the butt!

[In Exile]

Having an issue with nothing being able to totally kill the AI is different from wanting more detailed tactics. While I absolutely share your frustration over suicide runs by not having e.g. hold position mean anything, and I'd really like to be able to enable a kind of "Puppet Mode", better tactics would not really give me the mode of gameplay I want, just alleviate my problem. 

[Saphiron123]

Having an issue with nothing being able to totally kill the AI is different from wanting more detailed tactics. While I absolutely share your frustration over suicide runs by not having e.g. hold position mean anything, and I'd really like to be able to enable a kind of "Puppet Mode", better tactics would not really give me the mode of gameplay I want, just alleviate my problem.

Are you actually arguing against origin style tactics that would allow you to choose when your guys attack, allow them to use skills the devs disable by default, and fight more effectively when you control other characters?

Aren't you tired of Solas castings barrier 30 seconds before you even get within hitting distance of your opponents and having 10% less? Or varrick using his backflip attack/dodge move at the start of the fight so he has no escape when he needs it (like he would if we could set it to trigger when he's attacked by Melee similar to origins)

And yes the hold position button failed, but the shooting the dragon in the ass while I was cloaked was far worse. Again, a very simple tactic entry would have solved that...

None of those things would occur in origins or DA2. The tactics system was excellent, and it's sorely missed.

[Benman1964]

The game is broke ......... was broke and will be broke forever. They ruined it.

[In Exile]

Are you actually arguing against origin style tactics that would allow you to choose when your guys attack, allow them to use skills the devs disable by default, and fight more effectively when you control other characters?

Aren't you tired of Solas castings barrier 30 seconds before you even get within hitting distance of your opponents and having 10% less? Or varrick using his backflip attack/dodge move at the start of the fight so he has no escape when he needs it (like he would if we could set it to trigger when he's attacked by Melee similar to origins)

And yes the hold position button failed, but the shooting the dragon in the ass while I was cloaked was far worse. Again, a very simple tactic entry would have solved that...

None of those things would occur in origins or DA2. The tactics system was excellent, and it's sorely missed.

What I'm saying is that I don't really care for tactics and that I wouldn't use them if I had what I wanted, which is the option to disable the AI.

That's all I want. That and a better way of selecting all party members but that is a UI issue.

[Saphiron123]

So you just want to turn them off like robots so they stop functioning completely? Hey, if that's your preference, cool. For me turning them off like robots would sort of break immersion and I can see it creating situations where your party members get killed because you miss something minor, but hey, hope you get something that works for you.

I for one loved having a team in origins who seemed capable and self sufficient. Removing the tactics feature dumbed combat down a lot, a lot of us loved that system, it was unique to dragon age and something DA2 improved on. It was always optional though, so if the devs were to add it back in after removing it for the less capable ai, some players such as yourself could always ignore it.

The ai alone though feels far less capable then my teams in previous games did.

[Saphiron123]

The game is broke ......... was broke and will be broke forever. They ruined it.

Well I hope that isn't the case. Removing tactics though (along with attribute points) was a puzzling choice... I liked having that control of my party. It was more personal.

I'm not a fan of dumbed down combat. I liked the tactical aspects and setting up my party to use techniques that would work together without having to micromanage (even though I often did because it was fun at times)

[TaHol]

I feel that while many people agree the AI is terrible, there has been absolutely too little complaining about it. AI is so abysmall...I just can't understand why so many people just shrug it off and seem to say oh well, it is bad but what can you do. It is not even bad, it is unacceptable. This is year 2015. There is no excuse to do AI that moronic and bad. My companions have better AI in SWTOR and it is 4 (? or 3) years old game, and MMO. My thralls in TERA were better for gods sake and they were awful too.

 

BioWare is evidently capable of doing somewhat working AI, and make a very good tactics-menu for people who like to fine-tune their AI-companions. For me it feels like they CHOSE to do a bad AI, they CHOSE to let us struggle with it the best we can. Because I know they can do better, and they chose not to. I will take no crap-talk about how difficult making a working AI is, making a game is difficult, we all know it. If they don't know anymore how to make AI work, then hire someone who does. I believe this was just seen as non-important thing (thank you Mike Laidlaw for that too). If company was able to do something before, and suddenly they can't, there is something so fishy going on. Ok they changed engine but AI-code is AI-code in every engine, and if they couldn't do it then there must be people who could have.  They had zero probelms to do working AI for Unreal engine btw.

 

There should be a RIOT about this issue.

[Domiel Angelus]

I remember when I could buy slots to macro how my team handled a given threat, the first game could be perfectly scripted so you didn't need to worry about people being stupid. Given it took a while to level high enough to have enough macro slots to do so, its still better than the 'favorite this ability' thing we have now. 

 

They shifted the game because they went in favor of the slow down mechanic with the tactical camera. They pretty much demand its use if you want any sort of control over how your party reacts to a given threat. 

 

They wanted to try a new mechanic instead of sticking with what already proved to be effective and it flopped. The slowdown with the tactical decisions worked very well in Mass Effect because its a third person cover based shooter. It doesn't work well in a small primarily melee combat based game, this isn't meant to be a turn based combat game and that's what the infliction of the tactical camera brings it to.

[In Exile]

So you just want to turn them off like robots so they stop functioning completely? Hey, if that's your preference, cool. For me turning them off like robots would sort of break immersion and I can see it creating situations where your party members get killed because you miss something minor, but hey, hope you get something that works for you.

I for one loved having a team in origins who seemed capable and self sufficient. Removing the tactics feature dumbed combat down a lot, a lot of us loved that system, it was unique to dragon age and something DA2 improved on. It was always optional though, so if the devs were to add it back in after removing it for the less capable ai, some players such as yourself could always ignore it.

The ai alone though feels far less capable then my teams in previous games did.

Nightmare is a joke for me when I can fully control my party. DAO nightmare in that regard is by far the most comically easy of the DA games for me. DAI is actually much harder by comparison because of how much I have to fight the AI and UI. There are always hick ups but those I can fully avoid just by having them heal at the appropriate trigger point.

I find tactics substantially dumb down combat compared to say BG2 or POE. Rather than require any level of real skill it asks the player to basically play a scripting game and guess whether the AI can handle the combat right.


When it comes to combat I don't want AI - I want puppets capable of executing my will, which I then implement with a liberal use of pause.

[VickVeel]

Yet another way Bioware has completely failed their loyal fans.

[Saphiron123]

Nightmare is a joke for me when I can fully control my party. DAO nightmare in that regard is by far the most comically easy of the DA games for me. DAI is actually much harder by comparison because of how much I have to fight the AI and UI. There are always hick ups but those I can fully avoid just by having them heal at the appropriate trigger point.

I find tactics substantially dumb down combat compared to say BG2 or POE. Rather than require any level of real skill it asks the player to basically play a scripting game and guess whether the AI can handle the combat right.


When it comes to combat I don't want AI - I want puppets capable of executing my will, which I then implement with a liberal use of pause.

Fair enough, but if the tactics make the game too easy, they should create smart opponents who challenge you.

Fighting the UI and your team's stupidity isn't difficulty, it's bad programming.

[In Exile]

Fair enough, but if the tactics make the game too easy, they should create smart opponents who challenge you.

Fighting the UI and your team's stupidity isn't difficulty, it's bad programming.

I didn't mean to suggest the crap UI is good difficulty. I just meant that DAI is paradoxically harder not because of its mechanics but because of the poor quality of its controls. Like the DA2 Corypheus fight.

[Dubya75]

Tactics and party control in this game is broken. BROKEN.

[Knight of Dane]

Absolutely. The removal of tactics had me very surprised and disappointed.

[AshenSugar]

Just out of interest, is there any official explanation bout why the tactics were removed?

 

For all the other 'dodgy' decisions they made for this game, there's generally some kind of explanation, even if I don't agree with it. But not so with the tactics removal, which means I can only speculate

 

Possible explanations may be:

 

1) Frostbite engine does not support them.

 

2) It was felt that having combat tactics may make the game seem too complicated, and potentially put off casual, CoD-type gamers.

 

3) They would somehow have impacted multiplayer.

 

4) Bioware deliberately wanted to emphasise manual control of party members, and chose to minimise automated tactics in order to force players to follow this design.

 

5) The guy who programmed the tactics menu in the previous games left or was fired, and nobody else knew how to do it.

 

 

I've honestly no idea which of the above is the most accurate, your guess is as good as mine.

[rak72]

Try stopping Varric and Dorian from blowing up the Golden Halla once they get that bug up their butt

[Jester]

My favourite AI behavior is them stubbornly walking right in the middle of the pools of fire created by dragon's fireball.

Trying to keep them out of it is like giving a cat a ball of wool, and trying to forbid it from playing with it. 

 

I think it has something to do with enemies standing and walking around your firewall, instead of going around it.

 

Like Leliana would say "This is no coincidence". 

[Inex]

Indeed. Even behavior options are worse than they were before. Where is the ranged, aggressive and tank behavior? I remember DA:2 even had a description for those behaviors: the Ranged behavior had your characters moving out of AoE's, kiting enemies when melee attacked and staying at a reasonable distance from enemies.

 

Instead, we have a 'targeting behavior' with no descriptions, mages and archers standing still while being melee attacked or deliberately moving into AoE's. You can set your ranged characters to 'follow themselves' which works better but still not as good as the ranged behavior from DA:2. 

 

And the lack of tactics is maddening in many situations. It's made obvious when you try to kill a high dragon on lower levels: when you need barrier the most, the AI will just waste it. You can't even do something like 'when being melee attacked' -> leaping shot / evade / stealth / whatever defensive skill and make this a priority.

 

Also the AI will always try to detonate combos when possible. So if you freeze an enemy with winter's grasp your warriors will try to do a SHATTER combo, even if you have a rogue who can do the same SHATTER combo for a lot more damage. And rift mages will try to SHATTER enemies too... except stonefist is bugged and detonation deals NO EXTRA damage. The lack of tactics make it so you can't tell your warriors to not detonate SHATTER combos, or make your rift mage's not use stonefist to detonate combos.

[Beama Beorhtost]

Ashen, I may be wrong  but I think it is a combination of the 5 scenarios.

[Amne YA]

you forget to mention an important thing , the AI made all people choose to play rogue , cause the Ai can survive as a warrior cause the most of ability was spamming guard and hit thing , the Ai was OK with mage cause they spam barrier on the person you choose to defend on tactic , and spam their spell from far cause they can move while casting , so they stay away , but the AI with rogues was awful archer get to close , the dual wielding don't backstab and waist stealth by using it and using auto ataque after it ..... so most people where playing rogue as a main character

[Zikade]

Lack of tactics was a disappointment for me too (I really liked micromanaging my party) but it wouldn't have been that big of a deal IF the AI could handle itself AND the tactical camera wasn't so damn clumsy. Sadly the AI is rather incompetent and tactical camera... pffft. At least let me set their behaviour to ranged/cautios/aggressive/whatever. Now characters who are supposed to be ranged just stay still and take a beating when an enemy reaches them. They just don't know how to keep their distance. Also, certainly would like to be able to set certain ability usage since the AI tends to make stupid decisions. Like insisting to cast barrier way too soon or at the same time another barrier is already active. The current solution is to completely turn these spells/abilities off from the AI and manually cast them. 

 

The game is easy enough on normal/hard for me to not become that frustrated with it (though their behavior still causes me to shake my head at times, especially during Dragon fights) but I'm now on Nightmare and I'm dreading some upcoming battles >_<. I guess I'll spend more time fighting the AI and the UI than the actual enemies which isn't exactly what I want to be doing. 

[AshenSugar]

The sad thing is, I have a sinking feeling that this issue isn't going to be solved via a truck load of red, blue and green cupcakes.

 

Perhaps if we all did a mass 'stand in the fire' event outside Bioware HQ? We could use scrunched up red crepe paper to represent AOE fire, and occasionally keep bumping into each other and refusing to move around unless someone picks up and carries us......