Judging by Finn's moniker and fancy manners, his parents are nobles. They get away with a lot. See also Lienne Montsimmard.That point is undermined by the fact the person who says it, Finn, was outside of the Circle at the time and all he had to do was ask for permission.
I wonder, when you say these things, if you're actually listening to yourself.How very unreasonable of Templars to want to know where the mages are going and why. Why, we should just let them come and go as they please.
Yes, these Hogwarts Circles are fictional. Even Ferelden's, which is usually cited as liberal, had plenty of abuses. One mage escaping resulted in mages never seeing the light of day except for special dispensations. Even high-security prisons in the US allow death row inmates an hour a day of yard time.
The Fereldan Circle was not liberal. It was a "mixed bag" of good and bad.
It is not in BioWare's interest to show us the Circle functioning optimally when they want its existence to be a topic of debate. If they did, there would be no debate on it; we would virtually all agree that it is pretty close to an ideal solution save for maybe a few minor tweaks. Instead, they have presented mediocre at best (DA:O) and awful at worst (DA2) so the fans would former broader, stronger opinions.
However, there are various sources that confirm that all Circles are different and that some are run about optimally.
That may not mean much to some, but, there are those of us who do not lean on availability-heuristics.
Judging by Finn's moniker and fancy manners, his parents are nobles. They get away with a lot. See also Lienne Montsimmard.
I wonder, when you say these things, if you're actually listening to yourself.
I mean, yeah, but that doesn't explain Wynne and Ines; the former explicitly does not know what class she was born into, and yet we watch her obtain permission just by asking for it.
And I'm not sure how the second line was called for. That line of JB's doesn't seem to be entirely without context.
But in most circles the power that Templars wield over Mages is fear based and easy to exploit. Even Vivienne has some dark memories of those conditions.
Agreed. And I am sorry for derailing, but this reminds me of one of Aung San Suu Kyi's quote:
It is not power that corrupts but fear. Fear of losing power corrupts those who wield it and fear of the scourge of power corrupts those who are subject to it.
I just like how this is reflected in many sides (mages, templars, the chantry, etc.) in DA.
Yes, these Hogwarts Circles are fictional. Even Ferelden's, which is usually cited as liberal, had plenty of abuses. One mage escaping resulted in mages never seeing the light of day except for special dispensations. Even high-security prisons in the US allow death row inmates an hour a day of yard time.
Yes I would want to be free work a farm or own a some kind of small shop someplace.
I always thought ferelden was one of the worst circles. Gregoire for example is complaining that a grand total of seven mages were allowed to help at Ostagar. He thought that was too many. If only seven mages are allowed to fight at Ostagar, the front lines of the Blight, how many mages are ever given a chance to leave the circle and visit their family etc.? Not very many, I suspect. Throw in how Gregoir beat a pregnant Mage...
I'd say that Kirkwall is, or at least was, arguably the worst of the lot, but really, we've seen less than half of the Circles in the entire series.
Don't know if I can post stuff from WOT vol.2 preview so apparently here's a templar's view of the whole taking children away thing:
http://i.imgur.com/ckxjw5W.png
Also, apparently some people think this implies who Rhys' father is. If it's true, it's telling how relationships with mages are what encourages templars to actually treat mages like people:
http://i.imgur.com/1j0NQYM.png
Judging by Finn's moniker and fancy manners, his parents are nobles. They get away with a lot. See also Lienne Montsimmard.
Wynne, Ines, Irving, Rhys, Adrian, Malcolm, Bethany, Mharen, Galyan, Severan, Whilelm, Vivenne, etc.
All mages that through some circunstance or another were allowed to leave the Circle for a period of time unaccompanied by Templars.
Now, what do all but two of those mages have in common? They were all trustworthy.
I wonder, when you say these things, if you're actually listening to yourself.
If you intend to use snark, At least try to include some arguments in it, like I do. At the moment, you're using it as a poor substitute. It's not compelling or witty.
Let's see, you are opposed to mages being able to control which mages leave the Circle, for how long and what they intend to do, yes?
Don't know if I can post stuff from WOT vol.2 preview so apparently here's a templar's view of the whole taking children away thing:
http://i.imgur.com/ckxjw5W.png
Also, apparently some people think this implies who Rhys' father is. If it's true, it's telling how relationships with mages are what encourages templars to actually treat mages like people:
Or, to betray the Order, apparently. He admits he would run away with Wynne and Rhys if he had been given the choice.
Hence why such relationships should be discouraged.
Or, to betray the Order, apparently. He admits he would run away with Wynne and Rhys if he had been given the choice.
Hence why such relationships should be discouraged.
Apparently some people think Greagoir is Rhys' father. Imagine if that was true. What would happen then?
Apparently some people think Greagoir is Rhys' father. Imagine if that was true. What would happen then?
...nothing?
Also, WOT vol. 2 confirms that Irving's and Greagoir's friendship was due to them growing up together and is pretty much nonexistent elsewhere so don't think this kind of relationship exists anywhere else.
I mean, yeah, but that doesn't explain Wynne and Ines; the latter explicitly does not know what class she was born into, and yet we watch her obtain permission just by asking for it.
And I'm not sure how the second line was called for. That line of JB's doesn't seem to be entirely without context.
Ines is a botanist. And in Awakening she is studying a plant that is growing where the blight has spread. The Prickleweed. It's rare, but it's growing.
Being able to grow plants, even where there has been a blight, is something that is worth a lot of research.
I would want a Circle that acted as a K-20 school and university, where I could learn and practice among my colleagues but if I wanted to travel outside the circle, see my family, visit friends, I could go. I firmly believe mages need education and training, but I want that coupled with the freedom to come and go as I please, particularly once I have "graduated."
So as someone else said, I want to be free, but I also want to be educated and taught to control my power.
Also, WOT vol. 2 confirms that Irving's and Greagoir's friendship was due to them growing up together and is pretty much nonexistent elsewhere so don't think this kind of relationship exists anywhere else.
Rarely seen does not mean "doesnt exist anywhere else".
But the Circles needed to change, templars getting to much power and the seekers not doing their jobs led to abuses and later to war. Still I think the system can work and is the best presented solution.
Hey, Dragonflight, you are going to love this.
Guess who was, per TWOT Volume 2, the First Divine?
One of Drakon's Generals.
Hey, Dragonflight, you are going to love this.
Guess who was, per TWOT Volume 2, the First Divine?
One of Drakon's Generals.
Makes sense.
Hey, Dragonflight, you are going to love this.
Guess who was, per TWOT Volume 2, the First Divine?
One of Drakon's Generals.
Cool.
Haven't read or got a copy of Volume 2 so I'll take your word for it.
Makes sense though.
Cool.
Haven't read or got a copy of Volume 2 so I'll take your word for it.
Makes sense though.
You can see it in the preview.
You can see it in the preview.
Ah. I haven't looked for the preview. Been quite busy in real life.
Well, busy being lazy. Had surgery last Monday and I'm still recovering. Been spending most of my time taking it easy and being drugged up.
Also, WOT vol. 2 confirms that Irving's and Greagoir's friendship was due to them growing up together and is pretty much nonexistent elsewhere so don't think this kind of relationship exists anywhere else.
That's right, guys. Don't think for a second that mages and mundanes can form equitable relationships! Gotta analyze the Circle through the bleakest lens possible...
... except of course when mages live next door to mundanes. Then you're not allowed to believe they can ever be in conflict, for... some reason. 
Let's say this Chantry sister had been in Kirkwall and walked in on Cullen interrogating Wilmod.
She has already given her opinion on swords so, it seems likely she would have censured Cullen. And yet, we know he had very good reasons for what he was doing.
However, even if we assume they were doing something illegal, which is possible, she is evidently biased. If she is seeing Templars doing what they shouldn't but not mages, either she is not looking or more willing to forgive transgressions. Walk to the Hinterlands, there's plenty of mages there I suspect would make her wish for a Templar standing between them and her.
The notion that empathy for Mages renders a person's opinion biased and therefore dismissible might sum up my issue with most pro-Templar arguments I see. We might as well start saying that none of us have any business debating about this.
She never claimed that there aren't violent Mages, she implied that within the circle she stayed she saw Templars abusing their charges, and if we look at the possibility of that realistically, it's a reasonable accusation. When a group of people, any group of people, has power over another group and prejudice to go with it, there are going to be cases of bullying, abuse, and violation.
It's true, that one can rationalize her claims as possibly overstated or partial. You're doing so to the point that it depicts them as a figment of her imagination. I doubt that was the intent when her dialogue was written, I really doubt she had that shudder in her voice over walking in on one interrogation, or just one example of anything. She said "things" (plural) for a reason, and either that reason is that she's so sympathetic toward Mages that her interpretation of the facts is becoming so twisted as to be totally fanciful, or she actually did see some appalling abuses.
For my part, I actually consider the belief that such abuses don't occur with enough frequency for her to have witnessed some them to be the naive one.
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