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[KaiserShep]

The lynch mob would probably roast the mage before the reverse could even being to happen.

Well, I did say a pretend mob. If it gets that far, the mob leader will congratulate the mage for passing the scary ordeal in flying colors.

[fhs33721]

The lynch mob would probably roast the mage before the reverse could even being to happen. 

The pretended lynchmob that has no legit desire to actually roast anyone? Now you are not even making sense anymore .

[The Baconer]

The lynch mob would probably roast the mage before the reverse could even being to happen. 

 

Probably not.

 

 

Well, I did say a pretend mob. If it gets that far, the mob leader will congratulate the mage for passing the scary ordeal in flying colors.

 

This doesn't sound like a very good idea.

[MisterJB]

Was it ever said that Alrik actually hid any of his deeds at all? Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's ever mentioned that he did anything along those lines. He quite openly talks about tranquilizing Ella and "her doing everything he tells her afterwards" in front of a whole bunch of other templars. His former victims openly make comments like at first "Ser Alrik said he'd tranquilize me. He can't do that. I've already passed my harrowing, that's not legal"  followed by a creepily monotone"I'm Ser Alriks now." in the gallows frontyard where everyone and their mother can hear it.

http://dragonage.wik..._Templar_Letter

I have told you a hundred times not to bother the knight-commander with your pathetic questions. She's a busy woman and has no time to nurse you through your crisis of conscience. You are under my command. If you take issues with my orders, you bring them to me, or I will see you stripped of your knighthood!

[The Baconer]

Yeah, that Tranquil out in the main courtyard who will openly talk about how Alrik forced the Rite upon her, among other things...

 

Man, that Meredith ran a tight ship, didn't she?

[KaiserShep]

Probably not.
 
 

 
This doesn't sound like a very good idea.

Poppycock. Horrible pranks that scare people are always a good idea.

[KaiserShep]

http://dragonage.wik..._Templar_Letter
I have told you a hundred times not to bother the knight-commander with your pathetic questions. She's a busy woman and has no time to nurse you through your crisis of conscience. You are under my command. If you take issues with my orders, you bring them to me, or I will see you stripped of your knighthood!

This basically illustrates the total sh*tshow that is the Kirkwall Circle. If the Templars under Meredith are acting like this, it reflects very badly on the quality of her command. Alrik's basically a Templar gestapo and until Hawke [gladly] murders the douchecanoe he acted with impunity.

[MisterJB]

Yeah, that Tranquil out in the main courtyard who will openly talk about how Alrik forced the Rite upon her, among other things...

 

Man, that Meredith ran a tight ship, didn't she?

I'm fairly sure banter does not occur precisely as we depicted For instance, people don't tend to say the exact same thing so long as you keep approaching them because they have exhausted all other recorded dialogue.

 

[The Baconer]

I'm fairly sure banter does not occur precisely as we depicted For instance, people don't tend to say the exact same thing so long as you keep approaching them because they have exhausted all other recorded dialogue.

 

It's ambient dialogue for lore purposes, so I'm sticking with the premise that doesn't give Meredith any benefit of the doubt.

 

I mean, I don't even care if Meredith was actually aware of what was happening, because it doesn't speak well of her either way. If she truly had no idea of the multiple conspiracies happening within the Order, she's incompetent, but we already knew that. The alternative is that she did know, and was thus corrupt... but she was already corrupt beyond that, so it doesn't matter a whole lot.

[In Exile]

http://dragonage.wik..._Templar_Letter

I have told you a hundred times not to bother the knight-commander with your pathetic questions. She's a busy woman and has no time to nurse you through your crisis of conscience. You are under my command. If you take issues with my orders, you bring them to me, or I will see you stripped of your knighthood!

 

That doesn't sound like the deed was hidden. For the letter to make any sense - in fact, for Ser Alrik's plot to make any sense - he had to have the jurisdiction to order mages to be made tranquil. 

[The Hierophant]

Whatever the heck Malcolm's training regiment was for Betheny, and Hawke should be adopted by the College of Enchanters or Circles.

[Ashagar]

In the case of hawke it was clearly spirit of the hapless protagonist, as for his siblings it was apparently be a suicidal lemming if the same class as their older sibling for the sake of the plot..  along with stupidity for the sake of the plot which seems to effect many of both the Templars and mages in DA2.

[In Exile]

Whatever the heck Malcolm's training regiment was for Betheny, and Hawke should be adopted by the College of Enchanters or Circles.

 

Unfortunately, that was likely as much talent as it was training. A number of codixes across the series suggest that a big part of being able to deal with demons well flows from, the talent and power of a mage. Of course, mental fortitude is very important. 

[dragonflight288]

That doesn't sound like the deed was hidden. For the letter to make any sense - in fact, for Ser Alrik's plot to make any sense - he had to have the jurisdiction to order mages to be made tranquil. 

 

Which in turn would require Orsino's permission since any rite of tranquility requires the signatures of both the first enchanter and meredith. 

[thetinyevil]

Which in turn would require Orsino's permission since any rite of tranquility requires the signatures of both the first enchanter and meredith. 

That the way it supposed to be but we seen that Meredith made sure Orsino was First Enchanter in name only.

[dragonflight288]

Unfortunately, that was likely as much talent as it was training. A number of codixes across the series suggest that a big part of being able to deal with demons well flows from, the talent and power of a mage. Of course, mental fortitude is very important. 

 

One thing I've become increasingly convinced of is that how you approach spirits is also a huge part.

 

The Fade is a realm that reflects reality, but it can also be changed based on your will and belief. 

 

Anders corrupted Justice into Vengeance because of his own anger and desire for vengeance, something he hid under a facade of humor in Awakening. And there's a codex in Inquisition where a Spirit of Love was transformed into a demon of desire by the lusts of the man who fell in love with her. But we also see from the Avaar that they can allow themselves to be possessed for years, and then unpossess themselves without any outside aid, a technique thought to be impossible by the Chantry and the Circle, save for those who became possessed willingly and then you'd have to kill the spirit directly while in the Fade as is the case with Connor, and thus requires outside aid. 

 

And the Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed without any consequences either. 

 

After jaws of hakkon, I actually became very interested in a serious study of "How Cultural and Religious preconceptions on the nature of the Fade and Spirits affect you experiences with it."

 

For example, those raised in the Circle expect spirits to be the first children of the maker, and thus the first to be abandoned, and that they envy the mortals and want what mortals have, and that demons try to find their way into the mortal world and wish to possess anyone within it. Thus, Vivienne is utterly convinced that Cole is a demon and simply is incapable of seeing him as anything else. Or the debate Anders and Merrill have on the nature of spirits and how dismissive Anders is of her beliefs because he is so sure that what he was taught is right, while she dismissed it as "stories" for the Chantry and she has her own and doesn't need his. 

 

But the Avaar, unlike Vivienne, Wynne and other circle mages, embrace spirits, and often call on them for aid, against demons and mortal foes alike, and mourn their passing and eventually pray, worship and will a new one into being. They form friendships, and we see the spirits there happily interact with the world, and we learn that they gossip. The Auger, when I first met him, was surrounded by spirits who wanted to see me, and then they were content to leave me be. But they told him of me because they heard of my traveling through time from the spirits who were in that area. 

 

The entire nature of how magic and spirits work are vastly different, and yet works fine for them, something, as a codex in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC points out from the perspective of a circle mage when discussing religion, that a circle trained mage cannot even grasp because to them the auger is an abomination, the spirits they interact with are demons, and there was great frustration on both sides in that codex because both thought the other completely ignorant on the nature of magic and spirits. 

 

If Thedas was real and I were to enter the Fade, I am more than positive that my culture, my religious beliefs and how I was raised would seriously affect how I would will things to be in the Fade because that is how I was taught it was. And in a realm with denizens who can change natures, how you approach them, how you believe them, how you expect them can vastly change the reality and nature of that realm. 

 

Your belief and will create the reality you live in the Fade. Thus, if you believe spirits to be dangerous and want to kill or possess humans, chances are you will likely encounter more demons than if you approach them with a completely different view. 

 

And this still does not take into account the will of the spirits themselves. 

 

I think I find this whole thing to be immensely fascinating. 

[dragonflight288]

That the way it supposed to be but we seen that Meredith made sure Orsino was First Enchanter in name only.

 

Which is the point I was getting at. If Aric went behind Orsino's back to get a tranquilization done, it's not a far leap to think he went behind Meredith's.

 

But it's also important to note that because of this fact, any and all tranquilizations that were not authorized would also be super easy to crack down on. If you don't have a signed record for the person who is tranquil before you, you know someone is performing the rite illegally and thus requires you to crack down on your men. 

[In Exile]

One thing I've become increasingly convinced of is that how you approach spirits is also a huge part.
 
The Fade is a realm that reflects reality, but it can also be changed based on your will and belief. 
 
Anders corrupted Justice into Vengeance because of his own anger and desire for vengeance, something he hid under a facade of humor in Awakening. And there's a codex in Inquisition where a Spirit of Love was transformed into a demon of desire by the lusts of the man who fell in love with her. But we also see from the Avaar that they can allow themselves to be possessed for years, and then unpossess themselves without any outside aid, a technique thought to be impossible by the Chantry and the Circle, save for those who became possessed willingly and then you'd have to kill the spirit directly while in the Fade as is the case with Connor, and thus requires outside aid. 
 
And the Rivaini seers allow themselves to be possessed without any consequences either. 
 
After jaws of hakkon, I actually became very interested in a serious study of "How Cultural and Religious preconceptions on the nature of the Fade and Spirits affect you experiences with it."
 
For example, those raised in the Circle expect spirits to be the first children of the maker, and thus the first to be abandoned, and that they envy the mortals and want what mortals have, and that demons try to find their way into the mortal world and wish to possess anyone within it. Thus, Vivienne is utterly convinced that Cole is a demon and simply is incapable of seeing him as anything else. Or the debate Anders and Merrill have on the nature of spirits and how dismissive Anders is of her beliefs because he is so sure that what he was taught is right, while she dismissed it as "stories" for the Chantry and she has her own and doesn't need his. 
 
But the Avaar, unlike Vivienne, Wynne and other circle mages, embrace spirits, and often call on them for aid, against demons and mortal foes alike, and mourn their passing and eventually pray, worship and will a new one into being. They form friendships, and we see the spirits there happily interact with the world, and we learn that they gossip. The Auger, when I first met him, was surrounded by spirits who wanted to see me, and then they were content to leave me be. But they told him of me because they heard of my traveling through time from the spirits who were in that area. 
 
The entire nature of how magic and spirits work are vastly different, and yet works fine for them, something, as a codex in the Jaws of Hakkon DLC points out from the perspective of a circle mage when discussing religion, that a circle trained mage cannot even grasp because to them the auger is an abomination, the spirits they interact with are demons, and there was great frustration on both sides in that codex because both thought the other completely ignorant on the nature of magic and spirits. 
 
If Thedas was real and I were to enter the Fade, I am more than positive that my culture, my religious beliefs and how I was raised would seriously affect how I would will things to be in the Fade because that is how I was taught it was. And in a realm with denizens who can change natures, how you approach them, how you believe them, how you expect them can vastly change the reality and nature of that realm. 
 
Your belief and will create the reality you live in the Fade. Thus, if you believe spirits to be dangerous and want to kill or possess humans, chances are you will likely encounter more demons than if you approach them with a completely different view. 
 
And this still does not take into account the will of the spirits themselves. 
 
I think I find this whole thing to be immensely fascinating.

I agree entirely. And remember what Solas said: Wisdom and Purpose are twisted to Pride and Desire. The labels that the chantry gave to Fade denizens does not exhaust their nature. And even the purest beings can become twisted. I like the theory that the Nightmare was once a spirit of incredible compassion that tried to take away the horror of the blight only to become twisted itself.

The truly interesting question is whether the Andrastian Chantry's faith could create a spirit akin to their view of andraste. We see that in part (IMO) with the Divine. And if it is so perfect a reflection of her (it knew things about Leliana) then perhaps the difference does not truly matter.

Does Hakkon not exist because the Avaar wished him and moulded the raw fabric of reality into his being?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Whatever the heck Malcolm's training regiment was for Betheny, and Hawke should be adopted by the College of Enchanters or Circles.

I'd always assumed the training Malcom gave his kids offscreen was fundamentally the same as what the Circle Mages get offscreen. He was an escaped Circle Mage, wasn't he? I'd assumed that the discrepancy between what they can do and what other mages can do was raw talent, like Exile suggested.

[Br3admax]

Probably not.

Says someone who's never played DA2. Even the mage there know shear numbers would get them in the end. Even without Templars. 

 

Well, I did say a pretend mob. If it gets that far, the mob leader will congratulate the mage for passing the scary ordeal in flying colors.

 

The pretended lynchmob that has no legit desire to actually roast anyone? Now you are not even making sense anymore .

Nah, they decide to go through with it because some of them took off of work for this. That's a full day's wages lost, and they don't normally work in the Tower. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The lynch mob would probably roast the mage before the reverse could even being to happen. 

The mage only needs to snap his/her fingers. A lynch mob might still kill the mage, if they're large enough to actually be called a mob and don't lose their nerve if the mage takes exception, but if they don't lose anyone in the process it's because the mage was a remarkably good sport. (Or because they were smart enough to use arrows instead of trying to burn the mage at stake.)

 

(Oh, also? Trying to kill a witch by burning him/her at stake is probably the single dumbest thing you can do in this setting due to the abomination thing. Trying to lynch a mage at all is stupid in that context, but torturing them to death? With fire? That is likely to end about as well for the idiots in the mob as it does for the mage.)

[Lady Artifice]

I'd always assumed the training Malcom gave his kids offscreen was fundamentally the same as what the Circle Mages get offscreen. He was an escaped Circle Mage, wasn't he? I'd assumed that the discrepancy between what they can do and what other mages can do was raw talent, like Exile suggested.

 

I think talent is a huge factor, which is a big part of my utter loathing for the way the harrowing is handled. 

[The Baconer]

Says someone who's never played DA2. Even the mage there know shear numbers would get them in the end. Even without Templars. 

 

That at least implies a struggle. "Before the reverse could even begin to happen" implies that a bunch of farmers will just take down a mage before they can even retaliate. Beyond abominations, why even fear mages at that point?

[Sports72Xtrm]

I'd always assumed the training Malcom gave his kids offscreen was fundamentally the same as what the Circle Mages get offscreen. He was an escaped Circle Mage, wasn't he? I'd assumed that the discrepancy between what they can do and what other mages can do was raw talent, like Exile suggested.

Well Malcolm is allegedly a circle mage. The only time we can confirm he spent time in a circle is when he was imprisoned in the Kirkwall Circle when his cover was blown as an apostate mercenary. It never specified where he actually trained from.

[In Exile]

That at least implies a struggle. "Before the reverse could even begin to happen" implies that a bunch of farmers will just take down a mage before they can even retaliate. Beyond abominations, why even fear mages at that point?

 

I would imagine that people fear what mages on a level of, say, Hawke, the PC, or the HOF could do, not on the level of your average to below average mage. Or at least I think that's the idea. Your run of the mill mage is powerful, and can do things far beyond a regular human. But that's not every mage. Some can barely light a fire.