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[dragonflight288]

The ability of the Fade to change to reflect individual and group beliefs can only go so far though, even Solas knows that demons are out there and its best to not draw attention to yourself in the Fade so they leave you alone.

 

I acknowledged this, as I said that I hadn't even talked about the will and personality of the spirits themselves.

 

But if you approach spirits, and not even literally but how you approach your perception of them, already believing them to be a certain way, odds are that you'll actually create more spirits into the way you expect them to be. If you believe that all spirits want a foothold in the mortal world, to possess you or simply kill you, you have a considerably higher chance of meeting those types of spirits because you are, in essence, willing them to be there, or changing the nature of otherwise benign spirits like wisdom or purpose because you simply do not accept them as anything other than harmful.

 

In some cultures, like being raised in a circle, avoiding spirits is an excellent idea. But among the Avaar and Rivaini, their relationship with spirits is radically different. The avaar don't even deny the existence of the more malevolent sprits like rage or pride, but they call on the more benevolent ones to help keep them at bay.

 

And that is something that Circle mages don't do. 

[Steelcan]

For good reason I imagine, looking at Anders as an exemplar, Justice turning into vengeance...

 

I can only imagine what would have happened with Wynne and her spirit (faith wasn't it?) if she'd encountered some crisis of conscience

[Addai]

They are protesting Templar abuses not declaring that they have certain inalienable rights. In fact their manifesto includes that they will continue to uphold Andraste's tenants and punish malificar. Its not n idealogical split,just a protest of application

And you're still maintaining that the idea of free persons is a modern one. It isn't.

Besides the fact that it's irrelevant, since Thedas isn't medieval England and France- as I've said already.

Though I (and the game in general) have brought up examples of mages who went through the system free of any kind of abuse, you ignore them all and insist to call it an abuse solely for its potential to do so. And yet, when it is pointed out that the same potential exists outside the Circle in no less capacity, you call this acceptable, because it fulfills some personal principle of yours.

Being removed from your family, imprisoned and forced to go through the Harrowing or die is abuse.

[Steelcan]

And you're still maintaining that the idea of free persons is a modern one. It isn't.

Besides the fact that it's irrelevant, since Thedas isn't medieval England and France- as I've said already.

The kind of freedom that most people seem to think mages should have certainly is.  Outside of the nobility it doesn't really exist in Thedas.

 

No, but its based heavily on it, and we see that there are clear structures of power with nobles at the top and peasants at the bottom, with the addition of elves and mages.  The fact that there is no binding ideology for mage emancipation (or for regular people) is important.

[Br3admax]

The mage only needs to snap his/her fingers. A lynch mob might still kill the mage, if they're large enough to actually be called a mob and don't lose their nerve if the mage takes exception, but if they don't lose anyone in the process it's because the mage was a remarkably good sport. (Or because they were smart enough to use arrows instead of trying to burn the mage at stake.)

Um, no not really. A magic takes concentration and focus to function properly, and that's for powerful mages. If a lynch mob runs at you with pitchforks and torches, it's much more likely the mage will die, and the mage alone. 

 

That at least implies a struggle. "Before the reverse could even begin to happen" implies that a bunch of farmers will just take down a mage before they can even retaliate. Beyond abominations, why even fear mages at that point?

Because the average, pre-Harrowing mage has the discipline and focus needed to fight while being hounded by a mob? M'kay. 

 

I doubt most mages could put up that much of a fight in that situation. Everyone just assumes all mages have the world at their fingertips, and that's simply not true. 

[DirkJake]

Being removed from your family, imprisoned and forced to go through the Harrowing or die is abuse.

 

Yes, and even after the Harrowing abuse is still there. You still need permission to leave the Circle for a period of time. Or you can be "transferred" against your will to another Circle. Or it could be decided via RoA that you should die because of what other mages do. The whole system is abusive.

[fhs33721]

Um, no not really. A magic takes concentration and focus to function properly, and that's for powerful mages. If a lynch mob runs at you with pitchforks and torches, it's much more likely the mage will die, and the mage alone. 

 

Uhm no. If the mage doesn't have concentration or focus s/he can still set someone on fire before s/he dies. When she was still untrained Wynne set her sibling on fire without even meaning to as a defensive reflex. Or hell if it goes extremly wrong the mage might even become an abomination due to being chased by a mob and then the chances of the mob to actually make it out alive go down significantly.

If most mages could easily be killed without problems whatsoever by a bunch of random pesants we wouldn't even be having all these mage-templar discussions because then the templars (at least as they function now) would be quite unecessary to begin with.

[The Baconer]

Because the average, pre-Harrowing mage has the discipline and focus needed to fight while being hounded by a mob? M'kay. 

 

I would expect raw and unrefined outbursts of magic that are as dangerous to the mage as they are to the mob... which is essentially how Saarebas are deployed. So yes, a good number of casualties on the mob's side would not surprise me at all.

[Br3admax]

I would expect raw and unrefined outbursts of magic that are as dangerous to the mage as they are to the mob... which is essentially how Saarebas are deployed. 

Even that requires training. Mages can't just burst magic that kills on the fly unless taught to or they are very powerful. You assume Saarebas are the average mages of their society, while I have my doubts most of those even leave Par Vollen. 

So yes, a good number of casualties on the mob's side would not surprise me at all.

Then you have no idea about mages then. Only a mage of note would have that kind of power. That's made pretty clear in game. 

[The Baconer]

Even that requires training. Mages can't just burst magic that kills on the fly unless taught to or they are very powerful.

 

"An Orlesian girl discovers lighting in her fingers when she touches a lake and kills all the fish." (WoT)

 

 

You assume Saarebas are the average mages of their society, while I have my doubts most of those even leave Par Vollen.

 

"A Saarebas is somebody who is essentially a hedge mage because they never received proper instruction. So, they - their talent are expressed - sort of turned into weapons. Any kind of instructions they receive is basically to channel their magic power into destructive manners. So they just point a Saarebas at somebody and shoot, is basically all the Qunari would permit. They're not going to have more subtle arts - they won't be able to do crowd control. Or do different things. [...] they consider all the Saarebas to be weapons."

 

 

Then you have no idea about mages then. Only a mage of note would have that kind of power. That's made pretty clear in game. 

 

By all means, please share.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Um, no not really. A magic takes concentration and focus to function properly, and that's for powerful mages. If a lynch mob runs at you with pitchforks and torches, it's much more likely the mage will die, and the mage alone. 

If that was as serious a problem as all that you'd think mages would be a lot less useful to the Chantry as shock troops. (To say nothing of the organizations that don't have Circle quality training but still find a use for mages.)

 

Also, while The Baconer has already asked this I do have to wonder where you're drawing this from.

[KaiserShep]

It'd be pretty funny to hit an angry mob with static cage, then zap their asses with chain lightning. Take that, filthy peasants.

 

For bonus points, the necromancer can take the freshly zapped corpses and turn them on the rest of the crowd.

[Master Warder Z_]

"An Orlesian girl discovers lighting in her fingers when she touches a lake and kills all the fish." (WoT)

Don't remember that story.

Page number?

[Master Warder Z_]

If that was as serious a problem as all that you'd think mages would be a lot less useful to the Chantry as shock troops

If their used in that fashion that it's a waste of resources.

Mages are fragile, expensive and rare.

Glass canons.

[The Baconer]

Don't remember that story.

Page number?

 

It's part of the introduction to the section on magic.

 

 

If their used in that fashion that it's a waste of resources.

Mages are fragile, expensive and rare.

Glass canons.

 

I wouldn't apply video-game balancing logic to the extended canon.

[Big Magnet]

If the world of Thedas was real, and you were a mage, would you want to be free?

[MisterJB]

Mages do take time to prepare their spells. The Architect takes 13 second to collapse a cave, Corypheus is defeated by an Archer Hawke, for instance, because s/he doesn't give him time to cast and the saarebas that Meredith kills had his mana disrupted mid spell.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6TIf-VOjk0

 

With that being said, there are probably quick trigger spells for emergencies that may not be all that dangerous to a Templar or a soldier but would make quick work of peasants.

[MisterJB]

 You still need permission to leave the Circle for a period of time.

Is it really so exceedingly, unberably unresonable for Templars to control the number and character of mages out amidst the population?
These are dangerous people.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If their used in that fashion that it's a waste of resources.

Mages are fragile, expensive and rare.

Glass canons.

Okay, that wasn't really the best way to get across what I was trying to say. "Human artillery" might have been better. But I think between archers, catapults, and the occasional gaatlok weapon or unexpected flank my point still stands. And all of this is without bearing in mind that street apostates might have to do some close-in fighting due to the lack of an army to stand behind.

 

Also, I forgot to mention that if mages couldn't cast under serious pressure, the Harrowing would be a lot harder. Sure, there's probably fewer attackers during the Harrowing, but the quality of the attacker(s) makes it almost as dangerous.

[Xilizhra]

Is it really so exceedingly, unberably unresonable for Templars to control the number and character of mages out amidst the population?
These are dangerous people.

The fact that templars are doing it is a major part of the problem.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wouldn't apply video-game balancing logic to the extended canon.

It takes years to decades to get a competent battle magi.

You can train a swordsman in the basis of their craft inside of a year.

Magic is naturally rare.

You can conscript peasants across the globe to hold a sword.

Warriors require nothing save their own kit.

They need not lyrium or magical trinkets to improve results or to fight.

Ultimately I view it purely from a logistical point to keep mages out of the way.

A random dirk in the abdomen and you lose something it takes years to replace.

[Akir388]

If the world of Thedas was real, and you were a mage, would you want to be free?

Of course.

I think a place like the Circle should exist, but purely as a place of learning, not a prison that takes away human rights. The way I see it, mankind in general is capable of horrible things. Magic or not. Being capable of doing bad things is not a good enough reason to deny freedom. If it was then we should all be locked up. History has shown us that taking away human rights out of fear and ignorance never works out well.

That is just my opinion.

[The Baconer]

Ultimately I view it purely from a logistical point to keep mages out of the way.

A random dirk in the abdomen and you lose something it takes years to replace.

 

Apparently the body count produced by frontline mages is worth the potential risk, as determined by auld Elves, and the Chantry who would later borrow their techniques.

[LobselVith8]

Everyone wants to be free 

This is why I'd hope to be born a Dalish mage. They're the most free ... and elven... 

 

As would I. If I was born as an elven mage in Thedas, I'd prefer to live a life of freedom among the People, where people look out for one another and magic is seen as a "gift of the Creators".

[Master Warder Z_]

Apparently the body count produced by frontline mages is worth the potential risk, as determined by auld Elves, and the Chantry who would later borrow their techniques.

Auld elves?