858 réponses à ce sujet

[Sah291]

Of course. Freedom and circles aren't mutually exclusive...if they are voluntary. But that was one point the game made (I think in a codex entry about the history of the circle), how the circle system used to be voluntary at one time and was set up by mages themselves so that they could have a safe place to study magic, and because they were afraid of the peasants and ex slaves who hated them for what the Imperium did. But the system eventually grew out of control...

I may not be a mage in real life but its a very relevant topic. We have a lot of systems/institutions/machines/technologies that could grow beyond our control one day, and perhaps some that already have.

[Ashagar]

Define free and which circles, for instance somehow I don't think the Tevinter circles are oppressed given they are busy ruling and taking part in the Tevinter version of the great game complete with demons and blood magic, and of the chantry circle holds some are better than others.

 

Also factor in that southern thadas they hate mages with a holy fervor and its can't be completely blamed on the southern chantry as anti-mage sentiment and violence was actually worse before the southern chantry with antimagic mobs trying to murder anyone and often their families as well who was even suspected of having magic fueled by the hatred for their former Tevinter mage rulers and the first blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not sure what you're referring to, but IMO the Circle system creates more abominations and demonizations than it prevents.

Uh no it doesn't?

[Cell1e]

I would like to have some circle training in a day school capacity but still live in the community in which I was born, then Id like to specialise in healing magic and set up a little healing shop selling potions and remedies and doing healings for my friends and neighbours.

 

That would be lovely.

 

I would help the inquisitor and the hero of feraldan with my great potions and healing magic.

[Addai]

Uh no it doesn't?

Concentrate a bunch of mages in an area where the Veil is thin (as Circles tend to be), fill the place with fear, despair and ambition, and even cats turn abomination.

 

You didn't answer how Bethany got into trouble? I don't recall her turning abomination.

[Master Warder Z_]

Concentrate a bunch of mages in an area where the Veil is thin (as Circles tend to be), fill the place with fear, despair and ambition, and even cats turn abomination.

You didn't answer how Bethany got into trouble? I don't recall her turning abomination.

And still you don't see abominable creatures running around regularly.

Abominations are a rarity due to the circle.

And did you never take Bethany to meet iduna? Or the pride demon or any other random blood mage demon worshippers?

[jedidotflow]

Yes, I'd want to be a free Altus mage that's bff with Dorian.

[Addai]

And still you don't see abominable creatures running around regularly.

Abominations are a rarity due to the circle.

And did you never take Bethany to meet iduna? Or the pride demon or any other random blood mage demon worshippers?

Ah, well all the companions are tempted by her except Fenris IIRC. So, lock everyone up?

 

I think the Ferelden Circle and Cole's experiences in the Spire argue otherwise.

[The Baconer]

And did you never take Bethany to meet iduna?

 

Are we trying to say that, were she a Circle mage, she would have been able to better counter or resist the blood magic?

 

The same stuff that let a mage like Jowan duff a First Enchanter and a Knight Commander at the same time?

 

 

Or the pride demon (...)

 

The pride demon as in, the one encountered in Night Terrors? Because that's actually not possible.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I would indeed want freedom, but from a utilitarian standpoint it wouldn't be worth it; even FEs can apparently go abomination without wanting to. It would suck for me if I lost my freedom, but it would suck more for everyone if I lost out to a demon without everyone else being protected from me. I've heard the argument that the Circle system causes more abominations than it prevents, but there's less of a chance of these abominations forming in population centers this way.

 

Though if the Circle was being Annulled (especially for any reason other than the Godzilla Threshold being passed as it was during Uldred's rebellion) or some Templar had a hard-on for me that he opted not to allow me to refuse I might just say "**** the big picture and **** you in a way you've never planned for."

[Siha]

I did not read all 3 pages, I confess. However, the question itself puzzles me. Why would I not want to be free? Doesn't everybody want that?

What I get from the last few posts is a discussion about living in a sort of boarding school, but that was not the initial question, right? Would I want to be free? Hell yes.

 

If this is about if mages should be locked up... uh, no? The usual argument is "too much power in the hands of a person". Mind controlling or physically damaging others. Well, we don't have magic in our world but we have money, which can achieve just the same things. And do we lock away rich people for fear of them abusing their power?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And do we lock away rich people for fear of them abusing their power?

No, they lock themselves away out of fear of the poor.

[Shechinah]

(to Siha) It's about whether or not a poster might want to live outside or inside a Circle and what reasons might impact their decisions.

[Shechinah]

(to Siha) One reason why someone might prefer to live in a Circle is that they see living outside a Circle as potentially being worse. Living the life of a city elf in an alienage as an example. They might see the pros of living a life in the Circle as outweighing the cons, the pros being something like not worrying about food, shelter and such.

[Siha]

No, they lock themselves away out of fear of the poor.

 

That's a different matter entirely.

 

(to Siha) It's about whether or not a poster might want to live outside or inside a Circle and what reasons might impact their decisions.

 

Thanks. 

 

Boarding school Circle - If need be, but I'd rather stay at home.

Locked-away-Circle - nope. 

 

[Steelcan]

Also, free in the context of Thedas is hit or miss.

We shouldn't imagine mages living middle to upper class life if there are no Circles.

[Master Warder Z_]

The pride demon as in, the one encountered in Night Terrors? Because that's actually not possible.

The dialogue exists none the less.

Honestly it's like you don't recall legion from ME2 having dialogue for Freedoms progress either.

[Ashagar]

I did not read all 3 pages, I confess. However, the question itself puzzles me. Why would I not want to be free? Doesn't everybody want that?

What I get from the last few posts is a discussion about living in a sort of boarding school, but that was not the initial question, right? Would I want to be free? Hell yes.

 

If this is about if mages should be locked up... uh, no? The usual argument is "too much power in the hands of a person". Mind controlling or physically damaging others. Well, we don't have magic in our world but we have money, which can achieve just the same things. And do we lock away rich people for fear of them abusing their power?

 

Rich people can't literally mind control via blood magic or harm people with their minds nor are they at risk of being possessed by demons.

 

Ultimately it comes down to the freedom of a individual vs. the safety of society and where the line is drawn between the two.

[wright1978]

Of course I'd want to be free.

[Master Warder Z_]

Also, free in the context of Thedas is hit or miss.

We shouldn't imagine mages living middle to upper class life if there are no Circles.

Ah actual witch hunts.

Burnings at the stake.

Public trials and executions.

Mob justice is a type of justice after all.

[Siha]

(to Siha) One reason why someone might prefer to live in a Circle is that they see living outside a Circle as potentially being worse. Living the life of a city elf in an alienage as an example. They might see the pros of living a life in the Circle as outweighing the cons, the pros being something like not worrying about food, shelter and such.

 

If attributed to the real world, my first question then would be: who pays for this? Attending a boarding school is usually expensive. There are maintenance costs, food, water, heating, teachers must be paid, a secretary etc. etc. So, who pays if the student is poor? Most likely somebody who expects to benefit. In that case I'd like to know who that somebody is and what's his cause.

But in general I'd rather stay at home.

 

Rich people can't literally mind control via blood magic or harm people with their minds nor are they at risk of being possessed by demons.

 

Ultimately it comes down to the freedom of a individual vs. the safety of society and where the line is drawn between the two.

 

Money can achieve anything in our world. Buy a few people here, kill a few there, plant your men in the correct positions. I don't see too much difference between a fire ball and a grenade launcher in the end. Maybe money takes more effort, but I don't see any goal a mage in Thedas could reach that would be impossible to reach in our world (just by other means).

 

The problem with "safety of society" is always who decides what's a threat and who decides what's right? And how easy is it to declare something a thread to justify suppression? Where do we draw the line and how do we prevent abuse? Is it really alright to lock away an innocent just because he might turn into an abomination? And if so, why don't we lock away every child because it might buy a gun later and run amok in school?

 

Basically: what gives anybody the right.

[Steelcan]

If attributed to the real world, my first question then would be: who pays for this? Attending a boarding school is usually expensive. There are maintenance costs, food, water, heating, teachers must be paid, a secretary etc. etc. So, who pays if the student is poor? Most likely somebody who expects to benefit. In that case I'd like to know who that somebody is and what's his cause.

But in general I'd rather stay at home.

 

 

Money can achieve anything in our world. Buy a few people here, kill a few there, plant your men in the correct positions. I don't see too much difference between a fire ball and a grenade launcher in the end. Maybe money takes more effort, but I don't see any goal a mage in Thedas could reach that would be impossible to reach in our world (just by other means).

 

The problem with "safety of society" is always who decides what's a threat and who decides what's right? And how easy is it to declare something a thread to justify suppression? Where do we draw the line and how do we prevent abuse? Is it really alright to lock away an innocent just because he might turn into an abomination? And if so, why don't we lock away every child because it might buy a gun later and run amok in school?

 

Basically: what gives anybody the right.

Because the risks of a mage are inherent to their nature, no mage can be cut off from the temptation of demons (and remain a mage), whereas the dangers posed by armed people with weapons are not intrinsic to their nature

[Qun00]

I'd want to be Tevinter nobility. If that's not an option, I'd like to live in a Circle where templars are reasonable - I think Vivienne mentioned that in Montsimmard, mages where allowed to live in the city among the common folk after they passed their Harrowing.

It just goes to show that freedom and safety can coexist.

[Siha]

Because the risks of a mage are inherent to their nature, no mage can be cut off from the temptation of demons (and remain a mage), whereas the dangers posed by armed people with weapons are not intrinsic to their nature

 

What's the difference is the damage is the same?

I guess my problem is that I believe in all the stuff they keep telling us about freedom and "innocent until proven guilty". Maybe a silly sentiment, I wouldn't know.

[Nehn]

Everyone wants to be free 

This is why I'd hope to be born a Dalish mage. They're the most free ... and elven...