858 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

True, but certain environments are more conducive. The power differential is completely lopsided in Circles- templars having all the power and mages virtually none. There's ideological cover for dehumanizing mages, and little to no accountability for abuses (witness Cole's abuser being told by his superiors that they would cover up his negligent murder of the boy). These things exist in white Andrastian society as a whole but in a prison situation, the mages have no recourse and no escape. Also once you're in the system, it would be very difficult to ever get out again. Your blood would be taken for a phylactery and you'll be known as a mage. I'd rather take my chances on freedom and a normal life as the Hawkes did.

Hardly true. We know that Templars and mages are meant to be equal and work together. This is visible in rules such as that it requires both a Templar and mage to enter the pylactery chamber and both Knight Commander and First Enchanter havê to aprove a Rite of Tranquility.
Of course, this varies widly. Inevitably, they will compete and you end up with some Circles Boeing like Tevinter and others line Kirkwall.
But the same is true everywhere.

[Addai]

On a selfish level most definitely. On a socially conscious level, I would acknowledge the danger and agree to Templar supervision.

I'd like to know what the templar order has done to deserve that kind of trust.

Hardly true. We know that Templars and mages are meant to be equal and work together. This is visible in rules such as that it requires both a Templar and mage to enter the pylactery chamber and both Knight Commander and First Enchanter havê to aprove a Rite of Tranquility.
Of course, this varies widly. Inevitably, they will compete and you end up with some Circles Boeing like Tevinter and others line Kirkwall.
But the same is true everywhere.

A nice fairytale.

[KaiserShep]

My only motivation for agreeing to supervision would be that the alternative is death. Otherwise, I'd have to say that society at large could suck varghast cloaca.

[MisterJB]

A nice fairytale.

And an argument-free retort.

[dragonflight288]

I'd like to know what the templar order has done to deserve that kind of trust.
 

 

 

As would I. 

[Scuttlebutt101]

In a world like Thedas - yes, I would absolutely choose a warm tower, regular meals, free clothes, education and protection from mobs over the life of a "free" peasant.

[KaiserShep]

And an argument-free retort.

Thing is, this arrangement is inherently unequal. The Templars can purge the mages if the situation calls for it, but if Templars abuse their charges, fighting back is rebellion and they'll be put down anyway.

[Junebug]

I don't think there would be a single mage who wouldn't want to be free to choose how to live. Yes, I want freedom but I also want to learn how to use my powers in a controlled environment—like Hogwarts, Durmstrang, or Beauxbatons. Every region would have a public school specifically for mages. There would be less tension between the people of Thedas over them. I can see the College of Enchanters blossoming into a nice academy for eager scholars. Qualified First Enchanters and veteran Circle Mages could be professors and Headmasters. They would go through a screening by the Inquisition and must be endorsed before chosen to lead. Ambassadors for the Inquisition would screen in other regions. I hope it's successful. I can only imagine radical ex-templars and Loyalists would wanna tear it down.

 

As for Templars, the order shall be eradicated. No more ingesting lyrium, no more policing mages. The Inquisition's best medical specialists and allied specialists would screen them for PTSD and rehabilitate lyrium addicts, giving them the proper care and therapy they need. If a templar individual is still fit for duty (after passing screens to make sure they're not infected with red lyrium or possess ill intentions toward mages), they can become a part of any guard in any region that is allied with the Inquisition or they can try to assimilate back into civilian lifestyle (with the aid of the Inquisition). Same for mages unqualified to teach or assist. They may be screened (rehabilitated if they also show signs of PTSD), attend the College, and/or have a domicile on College grounds in an attempt to assimilate into Thedas' social environments.

[Excella Gionne]

I am a mage dwarf. Fear my staff!!!

[KaiserShep]

In a world like Thedas - yes, I would absolutely choose a warm tower, regular meals, free clothes, education and protection from mobs over the life of a "free" peasant.

Sure, if your prospects are a filthy hovel in a slum then there's a lot of appeal, but this certainly isn't true of everyone.

[dragonflight288]

In a world like Thedas - yes, I would absolutely choose a warm tower, regular meals, free clothes, education and protection from mobs over the life of a "free" peasant.

 

But what you get in exchange is a lack of privacy, you'll be watched 24/7, you can be killed for crimes committed by others, emotionally neutered if you're deemed weak and guards who aren't held to a universal standard and with very little oversight from the people who are supposed to watch them, and thus is open to heavy abuse. 

[dragonflight288]

Sure, if your prospects are a filthy hovel in a slum then there's a lot of appeal, but this certainly isn't true of everyone.

 

Especially if you're a mage from a noble family, or even a wealthy merchant. 

[MisterJB]

As would I.

He said on a socially conscious level. Meaning his concern is for society at large. Even if you accuse the Templars of being overzealous por zealots or whatever, no one has ever accused them of not taking their duty to normal people seriously.

[Incantrix]

Yes and no.

 

The world of thedas is such a horrible place but at the same time, I do want to make me own choice to live in such a horrible place. I figure, I'd probably want to live in the circle but I would also want the option to be able to leave the circle and do other things as I please, If I chose to. By the end of the day, YOU CANNOT argue the life in the circle is better than most of the non-noble populace. 

 

One must recognize that the typical life of someone who's not of noble blood probably isn't any better (if not worse) than a circle mage. 

[KaiserShep]

Or even a modest farming family. You don't need to be super wealthy to lead a good life in Thedas.

[mopotter]

I'd like the circles to be more of a place to learn how to control my magic, or to find out about the history of magic, good and bad.  But also a place where mages who wanted to live in a group community could do so.  Personally I'd rather be free to wander around or have a home and family, being as normal as a mage can be.    Or maybe a mage detective.

[dragonflight288]

He said on a socially conscious level. Meaning his concern is for society at large. Even if you accuse the Templars of being overzealous por zealots or whatever, no one has ever accused them of not taking their duty to normal people seriously.

 

And I haven't either. 

 

Until Inquisition came around and many of them went nuts (along with many apostates) and started killing maybe-mages or possible mage-supporters en masse and ignoring orders from their superiors to meet them at Val Royeaux. 

 

Or forming death squads in DA2 to kill non-mages in broad daylight without making a single trip to the magistrate. 

 

Or seizing political power.

 

Most of that was DA2, but there is a certain level of entitlement that the templars have come to expect in the level of power they can wield.

 

I think the most productive thing that can be accomplished is for everyone to sit down and define how much authority templars should have, how much autonomy within a Circle mages can have, and define set punishments for various crimes or acts of negligience on either side, and never deviate. For example, a Knight-Commander in one Circle will be held to the same standards of another one. Meredith should be expected to offer the same amount of leeway as Gregoire, but Orsino should also be as accommodating as Irving or Vivienne. If you know what I mean. 

 

Set rules that we can expect both sides to follow, and if they do then there's no reason why templars and mages can't get along harmoniously, even if it's not overly friendly. 

[Cz-99]

Yes. I love to travel, and traveling in Thedas with magic sounds like it'd be a lot of fun. If the Circles were optional - if you could stay and study for a while, then leave I wouldn't mind, but I'm against mandatory Circles.

[dragonflight288]

Yes. I love to travel, and traveling in Thedas with magic sounds like it'd be a lot of fun. If the Circles were optional - if you could stay and study for a while, then leave I wouldn't mind, but I'm against mandatory Circles.

 

What about "mandatory until completely trained?"

 

An untrained mage is as much a danger to himself as he is to those around him. 

[MisterJB]

Thing is, this arrangement is inherently unequal. The Templars can purge the mages if the situation calls for it, but if Templars abuse their charges, fighting back is rebellion and they'll be put down anyway.

Defending oneself from abuse will not be considered rebellion for even in Kirkwall, Karras and Alrik sought to conceal their crimes from Meredith.

Certainly, the arragement can never be entirely e qual which is understandable when onde takes into account the fact mages can never be equal to normal and that Templars are there to control them.

[KaiserShep]

Defending oneself from abuse will not be considered rebellion for even in Kirkwall, Karras and Alrik sought to conceal their crimes from Meredith.
Certainly, the arragement can never be entirely e qual which is understandable when onde takes into account the fact mages can never be equal to normal and that Templars are there to control them.

Except when the mages fight back against Meredith's unjust invocation of the right of annulment, it was considered a rebellion.

[MisterJB]

What about "mandatory until completely trained?"

An untrained mage is as much a danger to himself as he is to those around him.

Trained mages are (mostly) only dangerous to those around him.

[MisterJB]

Except when the mages fight back against Meredith's unjust invocation of the right of annulment, it was considered a rebellion.

It was legal. Questionable but legal.
Thus, it was rebellion.

[MisterJB]

Copy.

[dragonflight288]

Defending oneself from abuse will not be considered rebellion for even in Kirkwall, Karras and Alrik sought to conceal their crimes from Meredith.

Certainly, the arragement can never be entirely e qual which is understandable when onde takes into account the fact mages can never be equal to normal and that Templars are there to control them.

 

They sought to conceal their crimes, but I do find it interesting the type of people Meredith promoted over others. From Emerick who did his level best to investigate legitimate concerns, like a mage in the circle going missing after receiving some lilies and coming across an abandoned warehouse with demons summoned and a person fleeing the scene, well Hawke did, and nothing was done, to expelling Samson for passing love-letters and tranquilizing the mage for writing them and asking him to pass them along.

 

And Cullen's own codex says he was promoted to Knight-Captain because his views matched her own. 

 

Or Ser Metten being in charge of the death squad. 

 

There certainly is a pattern of promoting the sadists to positions of power, then conveniently overlooking anything they may be involved in when it would be super easy to call them out. 

 

We know from Origins that in order to be made Tranquil, both the First Enchanter and the Knight-Commander must sign the order. For every illegal tranquilization that was done in Kirkwall, there is an equally absent record with Meredith's and Orsino's signature. All it would take is to look at her own records and a look at who's tranquil to realize her men are acting rogue. Then a call to the Seekers would have gone a long way to solving the problems.