858 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

He'd probably blow up a chantry.

Spontaneous combustion is not out of the question.

[The Baconer]

Offtopic but can you imagine Anders reaction if he was told how the Seekers have had the "cure" for Tranquility for 900 years and have, in fact, made Tranquil and restored every single one of their recruits but withheld it from mages?

 

Glorious.

 

Well. At least they died choking on Red Lyrium.

[MisterJB]

Well. At least they died choking on Red Lyrium.

In all honesty, I don't see what was so wrong with their actions.

[The Baconer]

In all honesty, I don't see what was so wrong with their actions.

 

Kirkwall, the rebellions: the fruit of their labors. Negligence and incompetence all around. Then there's the apparent recurrence of the Promisers cult, which are no doubt crazed Seekers every time.

 

Their self-destruction was well-deserved, and quite apropos.

[MisterJB]

Kirkwall, the rebellions: the fruit of their labors. Negligence and incompetence all around. Then there's the apparent recurrence of the Promisers cult, which are no doubt crazed Seekers every time.

 

Their self-destruction was well-deserved, and quite apropos.

One could accuse them of negligence in KIrkwall, true. But if that is all, they are hardly the monsters you make them to be.

[The Baconer]

One could accuse them of negligence in KIrkwall, true. But if that is all, they are hardly the monsters you make them to be.

 

It's not all, but it's the one time they were needed the most.

Even the previous Inquisitor knows the Seekers have gone full-scumlord.

[KaiserShep]

I feel that Kirkwall is a symptom of a much bigger problem with the Circle system, hence why its collapse created such a domino effect.

[MisterJB]

It's not all, but it's the one time they were needed the most.

Even the previous Inquisitor knows the Seekers have gone full-scumlord.

Why? Because they didn't share how to restore a Tranquil's mind? No need to overreact.

Besides, asking someone who is seven hundred years old for a moral opinion...

[The Baconer]

Why? Because they didn't share how to restore a Tranquil's mind? No need to overreact.

 

It's not just that, but how they handled the entire matter, how they turned on the mages who helped them hunt down demons and maleficar.

 

 

Besides, asking someone who is seven hundred years old for a moral opinion...

 

I'd ask them before I'd ask a Seeker, that's for sure.

[In Exile]

That's a backwards comparison. Templars are to mages as humans are to elves- they hold all the power, legal authority, and social sanction to do as they please.

This is why I don't debate this subject with you. Your interpretation is farcical.

I don't think the analogy works, but only because humans really have less power over the elves (in most cases) as compared with templars. Some humans hold a great deal of power over elves. But not all. Whereas every templar is in a position of substantial power over a mage institutionally (though not all abuse it).

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I feel that Kirkwall is a symptom of a much bigger problem with the Circle system, hence why its collapse created such a domino effect.

 

The collapse was a self-fulfilling prophecy of Anders's creation. The Kirkwall Incident led the Templars to crack down, and the mages pushed back as a direct response to that (and narrowly at that). Again: the Circles only became truly unlivable to the mages after Anders' actions made it that way. Before that, however, they were all reasonably happy with it -- and were for a remarkable 900+ years.

[MisterJB]

It's not just that, but how they handled the entire matter, how they turned on the mages who helped them hunt down demons and maleficar.

They didn't turn on them. The Circles are the best solution for everyone involved.

 

And I will point out that was not the first thing they tried.

 

I'd ask them before I'd ask a Seeker, that's for sure.

If you tried to ask someone from 700 years ago his opinions on today's world politics and economics, he'd have no idea what you were talking about.

[KaiserShep]

The collapse was a self-fulfilling prophecy of Anders's creation. The Kirkwall Incident led the Templars to crack down, and the mages pushed back as a direct response to that (and narrowly at that). Again: the Circles only became truly unlivable to the mages after Anders' actions made it that way. Before that, however, they were all reasonably happy with it -- and were for a remarkable 900+ years.

Reasonably happy seems overly generous. I'd say wholly inaccurate.

The relationship between the mages and the chantry was deteriorating well before Anders decided to go magi-bomber, heck well before he became Justice/Vengeance, which Wynne indicates when speaking to her in the city of Amaranthine. Kirkwall's Templars were abusing their authority long before then as well, and were pretty much turning gestapo before the collapse.

[The Baconer]

They didn't turn on them. The Circles are the best solution for everyone involved.

 

And I will point out that was not the first thing they tried.

 

I'm not talking about the Circle system, which I am fine with.

 

 

If you tried to ask someone from 700 years ago his opinions on today's world politics and economics, he'd have no idea what you were talking about.

 

Good thing Ameridan knows what he's talking about.

 

Coincidentally, the reasons he had reservations with the Rite ended up becoming true!

[Master Warder Z_]

Nope, Lanaya also states that she competed with others for her role as the Keeper's first

And surprise surprise.

No other mages present.

So they selected the strongest and killed the others.

[Bad King]

And surprise surprise.

No other mages present.

So they selected the strongest and killed the others.

 

She specifically states that their jealousy towards her has healed, so unless that's some sort of cryptic codeword for "we murdered them all, mwahahaha!", I'm really not buying your argument unless you can actually provide evidence to support it.

[MisterJB]

I'm not talking about the Circle system, which I am fine with.

Then what are you talking about?

 

Good thing Ameridan knows what he's talking about.

 

Coincidentally, the reasons he had reservations with the Rite ended up becoming true!

Debatable. He claimed the Seekers promised him spreading the Rite of Tranquility as a solution for dangerous mages they did not wish to kill would lead to abuse. Ergo, he may not have approved of doing such but he was aware it.

Since the Templars have not resorted to using Tranquility as punishment but only as prevention, his fears have not come true.

[Master Warder Z_]

She specifically states that their jealousy towards her has healed, so unless that's some sort of cryptic codeword for "we murdered them all, mwahahaha!", I'm really not buying your argument unless you can actually provide evidence to support it.

The evidence is exactly what the game provides.

There are no others mages present save her and the first.

So what you buy or not is inconsequential.

It's what the game depicted.

[Xilizhra]

The evidence is exactly what the game provides.

There are no others mages present save her and the first.

So what you buy or not is inconsequential.

It's what the game depicted.

No mages that we see and talk to (aside from Aneirin). You're using absence of evidence as evidence of absence in regards to the mages, and Lanaya's dialogue implies that they weren't killed, while nothing whatsoever implies that they were.

[Augustei]

If I were a mage in thedas, I wouldn't be happy until I was Archon and the Magisters kissed my feet

[The Baconer]

Then what are you talking about?

 

Their turn to political hackery instead of fulfilling their actual mandate. Refusing to work with mages as collaborators and allies even after their achievements in the Inquisition and the second Blight. This would, in turn, corrupt the idea of the Circle as a mutually beneficial arrangement to a prisoner/guard dynamic.

 

 

Debatable. He claimed the Seekers promised him spreading the Rite of Tranquility as a solution for dangerous mages they did not wish to kill would lead to abuse. Ergo, he may not have approved of doing such but he was aware it.

Since the Templars have not resorted to using Tranquility as punishment but only as prevention, his fears have not come true.

 

It's not debatable. Even with the most blatant example of Templars using Tranquility at Kirkwall, the Seekers did nothing.

[General TSAR]

Hell nope.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Reasonably happy seems overly generous. I'd say wholly inaccurate.

The relationship between the mages and the chantry was deteriorating well before Anders decided to go magi-bomber, heck well before he became Justice/Vengeance, which Wynne indicates when speaking to her in the city of Amaranthine. Kirkwall's Templars were abusing their authority long before then as well, and were pretty much turning gestapo before the collapse.

 

I did not get the sense that the mages voting to separate from the Chantry had any real traction, just that most of their peers thought they were crazy.

 

I'm not saying all mages or even most mages were perfectly content, just that most were happy enough not to feel the need to make any fuss and liked it overall. It only became unlivable and an actual problem to them after Anders' actions, and it's not like he planned it that way in a master plot to free the mages (I might have actually respected him if he had that kind of wit), he did with the belief that every Circle was like Kirkwall's (which they weren't... until him). Ergo, self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

In the novel, most mages consider Anders an idiot and do not accept him, much less see him as a revolutionary symbol as he believed they would.

[Bad King]

The evidence is exactly what the game provides.

There are no others mages present save her and the first.

So what you buy or not is inconsequential.

It's what the game depicted.

 

Her dialogue clearly depicts that the clan has more than two mages (even before Lanaya's arrival). The clan taking in Aneirin clearly depicts that the clan were willing to have more than two mages. What the game doesn't depict is any reference to Dalish mages being killed and it actually provides evidence to the contrary that suggests that the other mages came to accept her after losing out on becoming the Keeper's First (and thus weren't killed as you speculate). The game then very clearly suggests that there are other mages in the clan and just because we don't physically see any other NPCs that specifically come out and identify themselves as mages doesn't mean that they weren't there - the large squad of warriors that we see marching to the final battle also aren't loitering around the camp and neither are the Dalish who attack you if you stole from the clan.

[DuskWanderer]

Free? It depends. I'd get free meals, all the booze I can drink, and provided I'm responsible, I can leave on positions. If I wanted to live in a new place, I could request a transfer. 

 

The benefits seem enough to me.