44 réponses à ce sujet

[helpthisguyplease]

 Lets be honest DAO is what made this franchise great an you are hard pressed to find a game with such a good story and universe and characters. Lets be honest DA2 was a bad game because in comparison with DAO it was weak and while DAI is better then DA2 it seems its not better then DAO according to well a lot of critics and reviewers and people on this forum. But my question is this is DAI the way it is because we did not praised DAO enough and instead we focused on the issues DA2 had and why is it bad.

  Bioware listened and fixed all the mistakes in the previous game but it get further from the Origins which I this is what gave the name of the platform we download the game.

  For example we lost 2 handed swords combat, big breast, the robe of chantry of breast enlargement, epic story instead we have a great story, epic>great so its not a good thing, hot female characters because the males are hotter then the ones in previous games, blood magic, more advanced classes, option to kill npc, more detailed ending, expansions, more darkspawn variety, hotter elves model, no close minded qunary, no origin start. And I think all of them are missing because we did not praised how great they were. So what do you all think did we focused to much on how bad DA2 was?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Oh crap, this is going to be another DAO vs. DA2 thread isn't it?

 

DAO is praised enough everywhere and it wins almost all polls regarding best DA games around here, the thing is that the developers just don't want to make another game like it.

[helpthisguyplease]

Oh crap, this is going to be another DAO vs. DA2 thread isn't it?

 

DAO is praised enough everywhere and it wins almost all polls regarding best DA games around here, the thing is that the developers just don't want to make another game like it.

 
3 things here:first yeah it might be.

Were are those polls made usually and why do they not wanna make a game like it?

[b10d1v]

I would agree DAO really had something "unique" evolving the concept that NPC friendships are complex and early Bioware knew that was their niche market, as did EA.  They spent significant effort ($) to preserve behaviors and choices -There was an article about managing game behaviors (and history, memories) where Bioware discussed how this might be done and the difficulties....to sum it up they needed a new method to "store multiple character memories" and the massive implications on behaviors, dialogue and scenes throughout the game... and then stalled around that press fiasco at frostbite HQ. Time frame for the article was about 9 months before launch.  If you search the bioblog it may still be there.

 

I also followed Sera's early development providing input on behavior modeling nexus links and the like and I have to say the Goal was to include advanced behaviors and emotions that far exceeded what we got!  Had they achieved the goal most folks would have been shocked at the behaviors, interactions and game play, the forums would be silent because all would glued to the game!  Hopefully that will still be possible.

 

As far as the polls some are in the forums (search bioware hosted) and some elsewhere including private events.  Might have to get creative in your searches to find them.  One was characters to keep similar to Mass effect 3's private group "I wonder if the depression started there?"

[In Exile]

The problems with DA2 resulted from all the praise of DAO. And similarly with DAI. DAO would have benefited from more clear criticism.

[FKA_Servo]

Origin the "client" is not named for Origins the "game."

 

While the complete removal of both 2-handed swords and 2-handed sword combat in DAI is a disgrace, and not at all something you seem tragically misinformed about, the lack of big breast is something that we as players must not accept.

 

I miss big breast.

[AlanC9]

If Bio had only known that gigantic bewbs are what the fanbase really wanted. Ah,well. Fortunately Brevnau, or VickVeel, or whatever the hell he's calling himself these days, isn't likely to let them forget this for next time.

[Handsome Jack]

Anything and everything we did and said would be ignored by EA. They can claim to listen to feedback and act on it, but their corporate leaders have strict profit margins in mind and ideas to meet those profit margins. No matter what we do or say they will do exactly what they want, and say to hell with all of us.

[helpthisguyplease]

The problems with DA2 resulted from all the praise of DAO. And similarly with DAI. DAO would have benefited from more clear criticism.

 I do not get it DA2 had different combat, worse art, very ugly elves, a meh story and a lot of reused assets without mentioning what they lacked how would more clear criticism towards DAO would have prevent those things from happening.

[Steelcan]

a lot of Inquisition's problems I think come from trying to 'blend' DA2 and DA:O, they need to pick a direction, not keep jumping from one side of the fence to another.

[trevelyan_shep]

EA will do whatever EA wants to do. No matter what the fans say.

[AlanC9]

I do not get it DA2 had different combat, worse art, very ugly elves, a meh story and a lot of reused assets without mentioning what they lacked how would more clear criticism towards DAO would have prevent those things from happening.

In the case of the elves, remember that DA:O was widely criticized for having a bland and dull look. I was one of the critics myself -- mostly of the muddy palette, though. As it turns out, I hated the new look even more.

[Sartoz]

I played both, liked both.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Not everyone cares for Origins.

[helpthisguyplease]

In the case of the elves, remember that DA:O was widely criticized for having a bland and dull look. I was one of the critics myself -- mostly of the muddy palette, though. As it turns out, I hated the new look even more.

 

Well DA2 was a step back but they really should have made a pool first to see if fans like the elves look.

[In Exile]

I do not get it DA2 had different combat, worse art, very ugly elves, a meh story and a lot of reused assets without mentioning what they lacked how would more clear criticism towards DAO would have prevent those things from happening.

You're focusing on the wrong things. The most substantial investments in DA2 were (in a limited resource environment and tight deadline) products of what people praised.

Everyone raved about companions and the plot being the most important thing ever. So Bioware had 2-3 (!!) personal quests per companion in the game. Everyone raved about the dialogue in the quests and "choices" so every quest had multiple (empty) choices at the end and a lot of dialogue. The choices in DAO had 0 reactivity until the epilogue so Bioware assumed that's all people wanted. The same quest design was used (linear corridor) but everyone was OK with it in DAO so Bioware assumed it was fine in DA2. Everyone made a huge deal about how great the "deep" political plot was with Loghain so Bioware used a similar quality idea for the main plots of DA2.

There's a lot of stuff Bioware did terribly in DAO that carried over to DA2 but people took off the rose coloured glasses.

[helpthisguyplease]

You're focusing on the wrong things. The most substantial investments in DA2 were (in a limited resource environment and tight deadline) products of what people praised.

Everyone raved about companions and the plot being the most important thing ever. So Bioware had 2-3 (!!) personal quests per companion in the game. Everyone raved about the dialogue in the quests and "choices" so every quest had multiple (empty) choices at the end and a lot of dialogue. The choices in DAO had 0 reactivity until the epilogue so Bioware assumed that's all people wanted. The same quest design was used (linear corridor) but everyone was OK with it in DAO so Bioware assumed it was fine in DA2. Everyone made a huge deal about how great the "deep" political plot was with Loghain so Bioware used a similar quality idea for the main plots of DA2.

There's a lot of stuff Bioware did terribly in DAO that carried over to DA2 but people took off the rose coloured glasses.

  Yeah we did not praised it well enough if we did we would have had a epilogue where our choices would matter in DA2 it did not really, also I am pretty sure people were not upset about linear corridor as much as much as going trough the same one time and time and time again. And the deep political plot was not a problem as much as that we do not know how we affected the city the lack of a epilogue is what in my opinion made the game the weakest. How many of us played DAO time and time again to have different endings for us and our companions and Ferelden and the factions? I certanly did. Also the Dual wielding sword fighting these 2 should never have been taken out there part of the 5 th things that made DAO great. Also we should have really praised DAO and DA2 for the hot girl models but not we praised the story the companions and gameplay. Now we payed for that.

[Winged Silver]

That could be it...though I'm somewhat inclined to think they wanted to try expanding in a direction that seemed like it had a lot of praise when done by other developers (thinking of Skyrim and Bethesda here).

 

Given how different it is from the first two DA games, I'm hoping this game had elements of experiment to it, and having seen the differing reactions to the open world set up, Bioware will now have a better idea of where to draw the line between linear maps and open world maps (like...desolate places like the Hissing Wastes make sense to have an open world set up, but the Emprise du Lion maybe didn't need it quite as much, or at least to the degree it was decided). 

 

I do think given the massive amount of information that gets tossed around on the forums, it's probably not easy to hunt it all down and figure out what's most relevant. I wouldn't want that job. 

 

The attractiveness of characters is subjective. I personally found the Origins males more attractive, though I like the Inquisition one's just fine (those voice actors....I like), so I don't think that's a matter of feedback not being understood/correctly stated, but more just "Am I going to get lucky this game with the appearances of my LI?".

 

Sure let's see some busts. But no bust enhancing chantry robes please. That was just weird XD

 

I'd love to see the return of desire demons (and some male ones too, because why not?)

 

I've seen a lot of people who feel that the Qunari as a whole were seriously retconned, but I don't know. I never got the impression that Sten was meant to be the final form the devs had envisioned, nor a holistic representation of Qunari society (merely one facet of it). I think it would be really cool to see multiple Qunari actually interacting with each other, rather than just one Qunari deigning to talk to our PCs, who aren't really all that knowledgeable about different cultures anyway (or even their own....Lavellan Inquisitor: "So this 'Mythal'"....whose tattoos I have on my face but why would I know about that person. Eck). So I guess I think there's a lot of potential to make the society even more interesting, but we haven't been given the opportunity to actually see it in action yet. 

 

Losing the Origin was a bad idea, but I think it was one that came more from having to shift plans. I can't say for sure, but I get an impression that they meant to have just one main PC, the way they had Hawke, and switched gears after the demands for multiple races. Perhaps the complaints should have been more specific and stated "Origin stories please", but I would have honestly thought that would've been implied. 

 

Blooooooood magic. I need it back. I hope we get to actually use it as a story tool in future titles, instead of my Hawke going "Oh yeah blood magic's sooooo bad...I'd never use it" (used it literally one minute before)

 

If TL;DR, I think it would be a good idea to praise specifically what's done well, in order to see it return, and specifically critique the issues in the game and explain where we're coming from, so that's it's very clear why they need improvement. 

[Dutch]

what exactly did DAI do better than DA2 apart from varied environments and better graphics and shitty tac cam? DA2 had tactical gameplay and you had a plethora of options in the ai behavioral screen which alone makes da2 better than dai, and as for characters and story - both were equal poop.

[helpthisguyplease]

^You can chose other races for your pc and you have horses and more dragons and a lot more lore.

[GithCheater]

what exactly did DAI do better than DA2 apart from varied environments and better graphics and shitty tac cam? DA2 had tactical gameplay and you had a plethora of options in the ai behavioral screen which alone makes da2 better than dai, and as for characters and story - both were equal poop.

DA2 was tactical??  Why?? Parachuting enemies??

[X Equestris]

DAO had its fair share of issues. Let's not put it on a pedestal.

[draken-heart]

I found Origins to be rather cliched myself. You had a big bad (archdemon/the mother) and the possible reluctant hero (The warden/Hero of Ferelden) who saved the day (while possible sacrificing their life). In the end, I felt two told a good story about one specific person's journey from nobody to the top of the mountain.

[Deadmac]

“Dragon Age: Inquisition’s” problems come from overcompensating. “Dragon Age: Origins” is what made the franchise a success. Unlike “Dragon Age II” and “Dragon Age: Inquisition”, “Dragon Age: Origins” hit the right balance between storytelling and world size.

 

“Dragon Age: Inquisition” did not need to become “Skyrim”, for it had already carved out its own cult following. “Dragon Age”, the brand, had already proven to be a success. BioWare needed to only capitalize on the original game’s formula. It was that simple.

 

If “Dragon Age II” followed the original game’s formula, while also introducing new world designs, the game would have become another franchise success story.

 

“Dragon Age: Inquisition” was an inquisition against those who hated “Dragon Age II”. Regardless about what a BioWare/EA employee may say, the game was built out of hatred for the pc gamer.

[wolfhowwl]

a lot of Inquisition's problems I think come from trying to 'blend' DA2 and DA:O, they need to pick a direction, not keep jumping from one side of the fence to another.

DA2 was faster and had problems like a restricted camera and **** bordering on non-existent encounter design but at least on PC, where I played them, DA:O and DA2 had pretty similar combat systems (DA2 handled how animations and calculating hits worked differently but that wasn't very important).

While you're right that DAI is a "blend," the problem isn't that it is a blend of DA:O and DA2 (since those are actually two mechanically similar games), it's that it is an attempted mixture of what those two games were (RTwP party-based RPG) with an ARPG. Ultimately they ended up with a product that isn't really satisfying for anyone interested in either of those.

The changes they've made over the series are understandable, the kind of game DA:O was didn't translate well to consoles and if you're in the position BioWare is you have to care about console sales a lot, but the execution has left much to be desired.

If you try to play it as a hack and slash, it is way too clunky and unresponsive and has basic moves like blocking, parrying, rolling, and dodging locked in the skill trees. If you want to adventure with a party and mess **** up go play Dragon's Dogma (really the game BioWare should have copied). The tactical combat isn't too hot either with the camera, commands, and party control lacking.