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[nightscrawl]

This post is pedantic. If you don't care for nit-pickery please move on.

 

 

After playing this game for hundreds of hours now, I've become keenly aware of several pronunciation errors or inconsistencies. While I have GREAT admiration for the BW voice directors, it seems like it boils down to one of several factors: (1) a reluctance to correct the VA (probably an incorrect perception on my part), (2) ignorance about the correct pronunciation of a word, or (3) a failure to lock-down, and keep track of, the correct pronunciation of made-up words.
 
The first comes out most often with the word "machination" which is in the game several times. Some VAs use the correct K sound, while other use CH (as in machine).
 
The second can be heard with "salve" and "cache." As far as I can recall, in the game "salve" is only used to refer to the medicinal ointment, and in that case the L is silent, but when it is used as a verb (to salvage), then the L is pronounced; but the actors all use it in the second way, even when referring to medicine. As for "cache," the E is always silent, it is NOT caché.

 

(Do note that I DID make an effort to ensure that the game usage wasn't actual alternate pronunciation, and I did account for that with one word.)

 

 

I only have two examples for the third. Bull says "Tal-Vashoth" at least two different ways, and Dorian says "amatus" two different ways. In each of these examples a key vowel sound is changed and emphasis is placed on a different part of the word. For "amatus" in particular, it seems like the correct version is heard in the line when you ask Dorian for a kiss, ah-MAH-tus, but during the post- Temple of Mythal dialog he says EY-muh-tus. The inconsistency is jarring in the second example if the player has heard him say it the first way several times before.

 

I think that the third issue is the most important. While I can hear a real word in the game, I have outside sources from which to learn about it and can just chalk it up to a mistake and move on. However, when it comes to the made-up words the ONLY source of pronunciation that players have is within the game itself, and when that is inconsistent, especially from the same NPC, that it unfortunate and I believe hurts the verisimilitude (one of David Gaider's fav words to use during lore discussions) of the world.

[In Exile]

Wait, "salve" has a silent 'l' in its proper pronunciation?

[Lady Artifice]

The ones that bother me the most are the words in Elven and Qunari that they don't standardize. With Elven there's more of an excuse, but I would still rather know a correct pronunciation.

[LightningPoodle]

Wait, "salve" has a silent 'l' in its proper pronunciation?

 

I always thought salve - pronouncing the L was the correct way of saying it, when used for a medicinal ointment. 

[devSin]

"Matchination" is common pronunciation, if not technically correct. I also don't fault anyone for saying "salv" (it's an uncommon enough word that it doesn't really matter if somebody wants to pronounce the L).

I also don't mind inconsistency in the fantasy terms all that much. Stuff happens when you tell people to say imaginary gibberish multiple times separated by hours or even days.

[Wulfram]

Pronouncing Salve with a L is fine. And Mashination. In British English, anyway.

Cashay is wrong. But hey, maybe the character is wrong.

Inconsistent pronunciations of made up words can be annoying, particularly if it's the same character doing it. Though I guess you could say it's down to some weird grammatical rules you're unfamiliar with

[PsychoBlonde]

Wait, "salve" has a silent 'l' in its proper pronunciation?

 

Yes, it's actually supposed to be pronounced as if it were "sahv".

 

"Cashay" is the correct pronunciation for the word cachet, not cache.

 

I don't worry about it too much, though, people mispronounce words in RL all the dang time.  What REALLY bugs the HECK out of me is those occasions when they actually use the wrong word.  I don't recall any instances of this in DA:I (yay!) but OMG DDO has a BUNCH of them.  That one makes me start frothing at the mouth.  I still am not over The Gaider using "redolently" when he meant "indolently" in Asunder.

[berelinde]

Regional variations, FTW!

 

I live in the US Northeast, and I have never heard "salve" pronounced without the L. I often hear people say "mashination". I don't know if I have ever spoken the word aloud during conversation. I know that the final E in "cache" is there to soften the final consonants and I might need to replay the mental tape if someone pronounced it aloud... but it wouldn't bother me.

 

1. People mispronounce words that are not part of their everyday vocabulary.

2. People get tongue tied and mispronounce everyday words because it's something people do. No one is 100% articulate to 9 significant figures.

3. The voice director might have missed it. Or they might have decided to leave it because it suited the character.

 

But the biggie is number 4:

 

4. I like quirky characters.

 

Just Maker, don't get me started about actors who can't decide how their own name should be pronounced.  I mean, I love Steve Valentine as Alistair, but he switches between "AL-i-ster" and "ali-STAIR" every time he says the name, and it drives me *nuts*.

[SnakeCode]

Yes, it's actually supposed to be pronounced as if it were "sahv".

 

"Cashay" is the correct pronunciation for the word cachet, not cache.

 

I don't worry about it too much, though, people mispronounce words in RL all the dang time.  What REALLY bugs the HECK out of me is those occasions when they actually use the wrong word.  I don't recall any instances of this in DA:I (yay!) but OMG DDO has a BUNCH of them.  That one makes me start frothing at the mouth.  I still am not over The Gaider using "redolently" when he meant "indolently" in Asunder.

 

I hate it when people say weary when they mean wary. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Wait, "salve" has a silent 'l' in its proper pronunciation?

Maybe it's a Canadian thing. I always pronounce the L in salve, as well.

[BansheeOwnage]

I was just talking about these things last night! I know there are a lot of factors, and sometimes characters mispronounce things on purpose, but usually, it's not the case and it bugs me. I blame the voice-over directors more than the actors themselves. One of the most infamous for me is Mhairi saying "AH-postates" instead of "ah-PAW-states". And then she became an Inquisitor voice Another one is the Inquisitor (and most other people) saying "Cass-AWN-dra" sometimes and Cass-AHN-dra" other times. To be fair though, I do that in real life too, and I would imagine people who are named Cassandra would have a preference that I don't know.

 

About "salve": I'm canadian and hear both, but mostly with the silent L, for whatever it's worth. I also say "mashinations".

[In Exile]

Maybe it's a Canadian thing. I always pronounce the L in salve, as well.

Perhaps. All the other English pronunciations in the OP I'm familiar with besides this one particular rule.

It could be regional dialect.

[nightscrawl]

I know my post was a bit lengthy, but I did talk about alternate pronunciations. Also, the OP included links with audio pronunciations.

 

 

"Matchination" is common pronunciation, if not technically correct. I also don't fault anyone for saying "salv" (it's an uncommon enough word that it doesn't really matter if somebody wants to pronounce the L).

I also don't mind inconsistency in the fantasy terms all that much. Stuff happens when you tell people to say imaginary gibberish multiple times separated by hours or even days.

 

If this were real life and people were standing around talking it wouldn't matter as much, but these are voice actors who are given cues by voice directors. This is why there should be consistency, because the voice director is there to ask it of them.

 

And again, with the made-up words the issue isn't necessarily inconsistency between people, but with the same person saying the word in a different way during parts of the game. That one person should at least be consistent with themselves. Also, Thedas is not Middle Earth. In DA we don't typically see extended conversations or dialog in a fantasy language, but only a word here and there, and I don't think it's unfair to expect those individual words to be pronounced the same in different instances by the same voice actor.

 

 

[edit]

Also, a word being uncommonly used, such as salve, is not a valid excuse when you are talking about a performance.

[b10d1v]

Could be the model and insufficient testing.  In any event, it's hardly nit picking when so many notice it and try to understand why it happens.

[BansheeOwnage]

I know my post was a bit lengthy, but I did talk about alternate pronunciations. Also, the OP included links with audio pronunciations.

 

 

 

If this were real life and people were standing around talking it wouldn't matter as much, but these are voice actors who are given cues by voice directors. This is why there should be consistency, because the voice director is there to ask it of them.

 

And again, with the made-up words the issue isn't necessarily inconsistency between people, but with the same person saying the word in a different way during parts of the game. That one person should at least be consistent with themselves. Also, Thedas is not Middle Earth. In DA we don't typically see extended conversations or dialog in a fantasy language, but only a word here and there, and I don't think it's unfair to expect those individual words to be pronounced the same in different instances by the same voice actor.

 

 

[edit]

Also, a word being uncommonly used, such as salve, is not a valid excuse when you are talking about a performance.

Spot on! About the bolded part: Stuff like this is exactly why voice-over directors exist in the first place, so that's why I blame them more than the actors. The actors aren't supposed to work in a vacuum.

 

While we're here, I'll also add another gripe of mine: Emphasized words. I can't tell you how many times I read the subtitles and the italicized word is either not the one the character emphasizes or is just missed completely. Now, sometimes, this works, and sometimes it even sounds better! (Noticed with Dorian.) But a lot of the time, it's just... annoying and bad.

[sandalisthemaker]

There was one that stood out to me.

 

Josephine pronounces Empress Celene's name as Cel- en  (Short "e", the same way that the second half of Vivienne is pronounced) the first time she ever says it.  I think that's actually the French way of pronouncing Celene, but she never pronounces it that way again, and everyone else pronounces it as Cel-EEn all the time. 

[Koneko Koji]

I must admit I noticed some of these as well - it particularly bothered me the change with Arlathan being Ar-lath-an to Arr-leth-then from one game to another.

[Dubya75]

I'm just wondering....does pronunciations not also vary in the real world?

 

Of course it does! 

So why should it not occur in video games?

[Jester]

I'm just wondering....does pronunciations not also vary in the real world?

 

Of course it does! 

So why should it not occur in video games?

Exactly. I'm not a native English speaker, but even I'm able to notice, that pronunciation can vary heavily with different accents. 

Why would it not appear in a game, that's purposefully trying to imitate different accents from the real world among the populations, like french accent among Orlesians?

[NRieh]

Hardly a new issue. If you want to see\hear the real phonetic mess, compare 'Leliana's song' (I mean the song ) with what Merrill says on top of the Sundermount in DA2.

 

....Also is it supposed to be [utenAra], [jutenEra]  or [uthenEra]?..  I think I've encountered all three, and may be more... 

 

ps: yeah, I know that's not exactly the way those transcriptions should look like, but I'm lazy, and it should be clear enough.  

[Koneko Koji]

Exactly. I'm not a native English speaker, but even I'm able to notice, that pronunciation can vary heavily with different accents. 

Why would it not appear in a game, that's purposefully trying to imitate different accents from the real world among the populations, like french accent among Orlesians?

 

For myself, it's not so much the different people with different pronunciations - it's when one individual pronounces the word in a multitude of ways that is irritating.

[NRieh]

 

 

Of course it does!
So why should it not occur in video games?

It's one thing to have real dialects in different regions, but here we have a videogame. Fictional languages are very important and tricky to work with. Sure, it's hard to achieve the Middle Earth scale\level. ME was something a professional had been creating for years, but it does not mean that such things are to be ignored.

E.g. in Russian DAO VO 'FerElden' had it's stress shifted, for some mysterious reasons it was turned into 'FereldEn'. Why? Someone liked it better, I guess.  

 

When we encounter different pronunciation, it must make some sense in-game and it should not look like an oversight. 

[Aquarius121]

One of the most infamous for me is Mhairi saying "AH-postates" instead of "ah-PAW-states".

 

 

Oh God I remember that so clearly because it bugged me *immensely*! From then on I was unsure how to say it in my own inner monologues xD

 

I also completely agree with the confusion on Celene, Arlathan, and Alistair. Extremely annoying for someone who strives to pronounce things "correctly" in everyday life lol :'(

[Lethaya]

The only one that bothers me (every time) is in that first discussion with Josephine and her pronunciation of Celene (or, in this case, Seh-len)'s name. I mean, jeez Josie, I thought you were supposed on top of the political stuff? XD

[NextGenCowboy]

Machination isn't wrong in-game. British VA uses the Oxford pronunciation, American VA uses the Webster pronunciation.

 

Salve is another one that may, or may not be wrong. In British English, Sav is the correct pronunciation for the ointment, in American English, either is accepted, and it's down to regional variants. In the Northeast, and by extension, those parts of Canada, it's Salve, without a full L. Just like Balm has a short, or no L.

 

Where I'm from though, the L is pronounced in Salve, but not in Balm.

 

Which isn't to say there aren't mistakes. Apostates in Awakening is very noticeable. In Inquisition though, they're working with various regional accents, multiple VAs, and multiple MC VAs. It's somewhat difficult to keep all that straight, and not breaking an accent generally take preference to perfect pronunciation, because it's more noticeable.