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Keyboard & mouse versus gamepad


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#1
Meowbeast

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I’m a longtime fan of Bioware games and the Dragon Age series. I was excited to learn that special care was being taken in the development of Dragon Age: Inquisition for PC; The controls in Origins and Dragon Age II already felt quite good to me.  

I’ve now played Inquisition thoroughly with both the keyboard and gamepad and am well into a nightmare difficulty playthrough. I would prefer to use keyboard & mouse because they were gifts and are very nice, while my gamepad is a cheaply made piece of crap that has a creaky LT (left trigger). I believe there are steps that could be taken to make playing with keyboard & mouse more enjoyable. I’m not going to talk about what I think the mechanics in this game could or should be, but rather look exclusively at keyboard & mouse in comparison to gamepad controls as they are now.

  1. Locking the camera onto a specific enemy. With the gamepad an enemy can be locked-on to by pressing RS (right stick). With keyboard & mouse, an enemy can be locked-on to also, but the camera does not focus on the enemy. The camera focus is useful for charging past an enemy and going for flanking damage or fade stepping through a target while keeping an eye on the action.  I would appreciate it if I had the option to activate and deactivate this feature at will with the keyboard & mouse. It’s also aesthetically pleasing. I like to lock-on to high dragons when they are strafing the party. I miss that cinematic quality when I’m trying to play keyboard & mouse.
  2. “Snapping” to targets in Tactics mode. In Tactics mode, with the gamepad, the right stick can be depressed to focus over the nearest enemy. Further presses cycle through the enemies.  Keyboard & mouse users have to manually scroll to the desired enemy. This can become problematic when the player is on a rampart or other elevated structure because the cursor in tactics mode gets stuck on terrain. Gamepad users can just press RS to snap to that rage demon below them. I know of no way to simulate this with keyboard & mouse. Could the tab key be altered to perform this function?
  3. Using abilities on enemies without changing the main target. In Tactics mode, with the gamepad, the big yellow reticule at the center of the screen can be used to highlight enemies and use abilities against them. They can have the reticule manually dragged over them or “snap” to them using the RS technique I mentioned above. I frequently use this on the gamepad because it doesn’t switch the character’s main target; e.g., Varric’s main target features his portrait above it and “attack”.  I find this method excellent for crowd control. For example, Cole is attacking a Venatori mage and draws aggro from a nearby archer. With the gamepad I can move the Tactics Mode cursor over the archer and cast knockout powder, taking the archer out of the fight. Once the action is complete, Cole will resume attacking the Venatori mage, his target.To simulate this with keyboard & mouse, I have to switch Cole’s target by right clicking on the archer and using knockout powder. Then I have to briefly resume the game until Cole casts knockout powder, pause again, and reselect the Venatori mage, or else Cole will inadvertently wake up the archer he just put to sleep by attacking him. The gameplay feels unwieldy to me when it is necessary to monitor all four characters in this fashion. As it stands now with the keyboard & mouse controls, the targeting reticule in Tactics Mode feels like a console holdover with no discernable use other than to point out where the center of my monitor is, or the exact edge of terrain the camera is stuck on if you're being generous. If I try to use it as I do with the gamepad, disaster ensues. Let’s say Solas is focus firing with the rest of the party on a pride demon, but he draws the aggro of a rage demon. I go into Tactics Mode and move the targeting reticule over the rage demon to cast winter’s grasp. Instead of freezing the rage demon, it is cast on the pride demon, who, as all rift hunters know, is immune to freezing. The targeting reticule in Tactics Mode doesn’t function at all like the one with the gamepad. Could the targeting reticule please be given the same functionality as the one with gamepad controls?
  4. Escape abilities and keyboard & mouse.  Warriors, mages, and rogues all have escape abilities. Warrior’s combat roll, mages Fade Step, and rogue’s Evade.  They are different names for what is in essence the same thing: the ability to avoid attacks or quickly flank enemies. I enjoy using them with the gamepad but encounter some difficulties with the keyboard & mouse.  For an example, I’ll use the ol’ Iron Bull and bears scenario. Iron Bull can block and slash every attack from bears except one where the bear stands on its hind legs and smashes with its forelegs. When I see a bear start to do this, I just tilt the movement stick and use “combat roll,” which I have mapped to the right bumper, and avoid the damage. On keyboard & mouse, I use W-A-S-D and the numbers 1 – 9.  Now, I only put combat roll and other escape abilities on numbers 1 - 4 because forget trying to hold S and tap 7 in time when you see the dragon’s “swipe” animation start. Even with this precaution, it still feels awkward to me. One workaround I found just today is to pause the game, and hold down the desired direction from the W-A-S-D keys before activating “combat roll.”  What I have been doing is going to Tactics Mode and activating the ability, because it lets you set the direction of the ability with the mouse.I would like it if abilities like combat roll and evade were treated the same as AOE abilities like barrier are (outside of Tactics Mode). For instance, if I press 5 to activate Solas’ “barrier” spell outside of tactics mode, the game will pause until I set the barrier with the mouse, at which point time will immediately resume. Could the game please pause when combat roll and similar abilities are activated so I can choose the direction with the mouse rather than the W-A-S-D keys? Using W-A-S-D simultaneously with the numbers feels so unnatural and difficult to me.

 

Sorry for the long post. I love Dragon Age and wanted to put my concerns into words rather than just saying something unproductive like “the controls suck”.

 

 


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#2
BansheeOwnage

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Thanks for the info. I've heard endless posts about how the controls are clunky on PC, but I've never actually heard why! This is enlightening.



#3
caradoc2000

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that a Meowbeast describes how to use a mouse... :rolleyes:



#4
Meowbeast

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that a Meowbeast describes how to use a mouse... :rolleyes:

It's actually par for the course you silly billy.



#5
roadrunnerNM

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Huh. Guess I'm going to have to buy a controller. Thanks for the clear, careful descriptions, Meowbeast.



#6
Lukas Trevelyan

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Oh an actual comprehensive post about KB&M controls. 

While I appreciate how much well-thought these concerns are, I am still slightly confused why there are expectations for KB&M and game-pads to operate similarly. I for one cannot use the gamepad to play the game because Dragon Age in general has always been more comfortable to me on the KB (as much as I would love to use gamepads because I think they're cool, I just can't).

Using KB&M you get a cursor that allows you to swiftly change targets under tactical camera instantly. In fact the whole game can be played using the mouse alone in tactical camera. You don't need a key to target the nearest enemy because it's that easy just clicking on the enemy you want to target. 

Additionally action-esque moves, such as combat roll, evade and fade-step, control as natural as any other action game using WASD (they function almost exactly the same as Guild Wars 2). The mode is called action mode for a reason. If you want to have more control over it's direction, tactical camera can do that for you.

Finally, I have never really experienced switching the main target when using an ability (frankly it's rare for me to use an ability on another enemy and not focus them). It's also important to note that the targeting reticule on KB&M doesn't function the same as on gamepad, since again you have a cursor you need to click the enemy you want to focus, the reticule's purpose in KB&M is to act as an invisible character and move around the camera as you wish.

I'll give you #1, but frankly it never bothered me, in fact I believe it would bother me if the camera focused the target I wanted because I want to be aware of the battlefield.

In conclusion, comparing KB&M controls and Gamepad controls is... silly in my opinion. I never understood the outrage, or the criticism and the controls on both devices functions adequately (YMMV). 


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#7
Meowbeast

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Using KB&M you get a cursor that allows you to swiftly change targets under tactical camera instantly. In fact the whole game can be played using the mouse alone in tactical camera. You don't need a key to target the nearest enemy because it's that easy just clicking on the enemy you want to target.

That's true. The tactical camera can be manipulated into a horizontal position suitable for clicking far away enemies. This mechanic was not apparent to me when I first started playing. Since the tactical camera starts in a vertical position, my first instinct was to scroll to faraway enemies I want to click. I did not feel that the in-game tutorials were helpful enough with regards to how I am supposed to navigate the tactics camera with keyboard and mouse.

 

Additionally action-esque moves, such as combat roll, evade and fade-step, control as natural as any other action game using WASD (they function almost exactly the same as Guild Wars 2). The mode is called action mode for a reason. If you want to have more control over it's direction, tactical camera can do that for you.

I'm a lifelong PC gamer and have always used my middle finger to press "S" (move backwards) with the WASD configuration, because if I'm moving backwards I certainly don't need that finger to move forwards with "W." In Inquisition, I found myself holding "S" with my middle while trying to hit the combat roll/evade button on the numbers above. If you want to know why that is difficult for me, try touching the tip of your middle finger to your palm and raising your index and ring fingers anywhere near what is parallel to the top of your hand. Granted, I can bypass this problem if I arch my middle finger above my hand in an awkward, claw-like position. I agree that the tactical camera is best for these maneuvers with keyboard & mouse. Doesn't it seem contradictory that you suggest that I need to swap action mode with a mode designed to control the entire party just to have more control over a single character's actions?

 

It's also important to note that the targeting reticule on KB&M doesn't function the same as on gamepad, since again you have a cursor you need to click the enemy you want to focus, the reticule's purpose in KB&M is to act as an invisible character and move around the camera as you wish.

You're right; the reticule does not function the same. I can queue abilities with attacking on separate targets with the gamepad while I cannot with keyboard & mouse. Why can only the gamepad have that functionality when keyboards have a multitude of buttons? Even my mouse can compete with my gamepad in terms of buttons.

About the purpose of the reticule, did a dev actually say that? There wasn't a reticule in Dragon Age: Origins' overhead view. It feels like its only purpose with the keyboard and mouse configuration is to get stuck on in-game objects and terrain.

 

I'll give you #1, but frankly it never bothered me, in fact I believe it would bother me if the camera focused the target I wanted because I want to be aware of the battlefield.

Yes, I only turned it on when using charging bull, fighting dragons, and certain other situations. It's easy to toggle it on and off.

 

In conclusion, comparing KB&M controls and Gamepad controls is... silly in my opinion. I never understood the outrage, or the criticism and the controls on both devices functions adequately (YMMV).

Well, to each their own. I think the outrage comes from expectations set after how controls in the first two DAs functioned. Also, Bioware said something to the effect that they were taking pains to fine-tune the PC controls in Inquisition. I think PC gamers also think of the Baldur's Gate series and hold Bioware to a high standard when it comes to their PC versions. Personally, I'm not outraged. I just feel the controls were much better in Origins and Dragon Age II. I think the keyboard and mouse controls are less intuitive and less fun than the gamepad.



#8
Thandal N'Lyman

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I am also a fan of the DAO/DA2 kb+m UI.  It worked intuitively and cleanly.  After only a few minutes I never had to think about it.

 

In DAI, on the other hand, I felt like I was fighting the controls more than I was fighting the critters.  But once I activated the "mouse-look" option (available since Patch 6) and learned to embrace the "Interact Key", things have been MUCH better.  It's not perfect (need to switch to the Tac-Cam view to aim any AoE, for example) but it's a huge improvement!



#9
Meowbeast

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...once I activated the "mouse-look" option (available since Patch 6) and learned to embrace the "Interact Key", things have been MUCH better.  It's not perfect (need to switch to the Tac-Cam view to aim any AoE, for example) but it's a huge improvement!

Thanks. I haven't fooled around with that option much; I'll have to try it out.



#10
wrdnshprd

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i have a two problems:

 

the action combat system in the game isnt bad.. they just tried to ALSO pacify us folks (including me) that prefer the Baldur's Gate style.  they tried to satisfy everyone.. and when you do that.. you end up satisfying no one.  if they would have made this a full hack n slash / action game and advertised that from the beginning.  i wouldnt have had an issue with it. 

 

the other issue i have with this is game is auto-attack.  its ridiculous that i have to hold a button down to execute auto-attack.  again.. they should have just went with a "button mashing" system and been done with it.. at least it would have controlled better.



#11
Sylvius the Mad

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the other issue i have with this is game is auto-attack. its ridiculous that i have to hold a button down to execute auto-attack.

You don't. Just use the Tac Cam.

I use the Tac Cam for all challenging encounters. I wish I could explore in the Tac Cam and just never switch to the action cam.

#12
Sanunes

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For me a lot of the KB/M issues went away after playing the game for while, but I still have issues when using the tactical camera and I think that is because they broke apart every single ability to a separate key so you are basically hunting a pecking to get what you need done.  The biggest offender for me is when trying to assign commands during tactical mode attack, hold, clear, and disengage for I have to move one of my hands to complete this action and it feels extremely awkward to me.


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#13
Voxr

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For me a lot of the KB/M issues went away after playing the game for while, but I still have issues when using the tactical camera and I think that is because they broke apart every single ability to a separate key so you are basically hunting a pecking to get what you need done.  The biggest offender for me is when trying to assign commands during tactical mode attack, hold, clear, and disengage for I have to move one of my hands to complete this action and it feels extremely awkward to me.

This is me. After about my first 15 hours I was able to mostly get used to the controls. 



#14
McPartyson

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Keyboard mouse is only ever necessary for precision or for games that require loads of specific built for mouse micro-management and in my opinion this isn't necessary in Inquisition. The Controller plays wonderfully. There is no real precise twitch-aiming involved in gameplay. The only thing I can think of that comes close is placing AoE circles...but those they work just fine on a controller.



#15
DeadEyeMaster1

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Don't know if you guys notice that patch 5 actually contains a feature - mouse looking, for turning the camera followed the mouse movements, like an action game. Actually when I use this mode it does have improved the game controlling experience. 

 

Butttt, the controller is still better than keyboard I feel. But right now there are some features that controller isn't able to have, something like auto-running just like elder scroll. 


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