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[txgoldrush]

http://masseffect.wi...x/Organizations

 

Cerberus - Mass Effect 2 codex entry

 

"Immediately following the First Contact War, an anonymous extranet manifesto warned that an alien attempt at human genocide was inevitable. The manifesto called for an army - a Cerberus to guard against invasion through the Charon relay.

Derided as "survivalist rhetoric written by an illusive man", the manifesto and its anonymous author soon fell off the media radar. But in 2165, terrorists stole antimatter from the SSV Geneva, the sole figure arrested named his sponsor "Cerberus". Throughout the 2160s and 2170s, alleged Cerberus agents assassinated politicians, sabotaged starships bearing eezo, and conducted nightmarish experiments on aliens and humans. Denounced as human-supremacist, Cerberus calls itself human-survivalist.

Counterterror experts speculate Cerberus may have changed leadership with its recent shift to stockpiling ships, agents, and weapons. Whether "he", "she", or "they", the Illusive Man hides his finances behind shell companies. Few doubt he will kill anyone attempting to expose him. "

 

 

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This explains why Cerberus has a sizable (but not huge) navy and ground forces in ME3, its all in the narrative. This does not come out of the blue, it was covered by the story. Even with the actions of Retribution, the stockpile began before it.

[CrutchCricket]

Sure they have ships. But a fleet big enough to invade Omega? Big enough to draw the Reapers' attention when we attack Cronos and thus lock us into the end game? Big enough to pass for ME's version of the Empire?

 

Still stretches credibility I think...

[capn233]

They unlocked a previously unknown relay that took them to the Star Forge.

[Iakus]

Sure they have ships. But a fleet big enough to invade Omega? Big enough to draw the Reapers' attention when we attack Cronos and thus lock us into the end game? Big enough to pass for ME's version of the Empire?

 

Still stretches credibility I think...

Not to mention invade Sur'Kesh, one of the most secure worlds in Council Space.

[Quarian Master Race]

The logistics of having a fleet that can challenge the output of entire species' legitimate militaries simply makes no sense. Even if you explain it via Cerberus's supposed legitimate front companies, it takes a massive economy to pay for it and thousands if not hundreds of thousands of involved in procurement, financing, shipbuilding and bookeeping to just disappear, all have inhuman loyalty, or other means of literally never asking questions that hundreds of military ships are simply disappearing. Is everyone who works in the human shipbuilding industry a goddamn Cerberus sleeper agent, and everyone in the military an incompetent who can just explain away thousands of procured warships simply disappearing?

Take real world examples of current non state military forces. The DPR/LPR in Ukraine or Islamic State have legit State backers supplying them with military equipment openly, and even they don't have a goddamn blue-water navy, or even anything close to it. They don't even have air forces.

[Display Name Owner]

It kind of explains it, but it really doesn't. There's a leap between "stockpiling weapons" and fielding a genuine army. They make billions a year but still, how much do you reckon at least one cruiser, a fleet of frigates, a whole load of fighters, several space stations, research materials, ground vehicles, guns, personnel salaries, uniforms, suits of armour, money for payoffs and general maintenance must cost? Taking out the billions Shepard and the Normandy had to require. And all carried out by a network of what seems like between a few hundred and couple thousand people.

 

Look at their army even, they're said to have been stockpiling weapons and presumably armour for years, so how come their troops all have standardised custom built and designed armour and weapons that were clearly made from scratch?

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, that does not make sense.

[God]

I'm arguably the largest supporter of Cerberus around here. And even I think their miracle Navy was pulled out of nowhere. Unless their fleet is significantly smaller than the series implies.

[CrutchCricket]

They unlocked a previously unknown relay that took them to the Star Forge.

Revan is a bigger Space Messiah than Shepard. Does not compute.

[God]

Depends. Revan got treated as a chump by a lot of the Star Wars universe.

 

And in the end, it's all non-canon now anyway, as per Disney's new ruling, where they explicitly state that anything that is not movie or SWCW cartoon is not-canon.

[CrutchCricket]

Depends. Revan got treated as a chump by a lot of the Star Wars universe.
 
And in the end, it's all non-canon now anyway, as per Disney's new ruling, where they explicitly state that anything that is not movie or SWCW cartoon is not-canon.

Ugh. Have you seen/played Shadow of Revan? They really need to give it a rest.
 
As for Disney, isn't it about time you smote those heretics?

Spoiler

Seriously though, they can go fuck themselves

[o Ventus]

From the wiki:

 

As of 2185, Cerberus consists of 150 operatives organized into three cells.

 

So, unless they recruited, lured, or kidnapped hundreds if not thousands of troops, engineers, technicians, etc (with the Alliance totally failing to look into all of the missing persons cases), then no, they would never have had a fleet in ME3.

[Display Name Owner]

From the wiki:

 

 

 

 

So, unless they recruited, lured, or kidnapped hundreds if not thousands of troops, engineers, technicians, etc (with the Alliance totally failing to look into all of the missing persons cases), then no, they would never have had a fleet in ME3.

 

I took "operatives" to apply to people like Miranda, Jacob, Leng, etc, ignoring the redshirts (or greyandorangeshirts?). 150 key organisational, scientific, technical and combat specialists. Imo it's the only way for it to make sense, 150 people can't possibly have pulled off a fraction of what they got done in ME2 alone.

[CrutchCricket]

I took "operatives" to apply to people like Miranda, Jacob, Leng, etc, ignoring the redshirts (or greyandorangeshirts?). 150 key organisational, scientific, technical and combat specialists. Imo it's the only way for it to make sense, 150 people can't possibly have pulled off a fraction of what they got done in ME2 alone.

Could've outsourced some special projects, particularly in the highly specialized tech fields.

[Steelcan]

I see txgoldrush is still droning away

[CrutchCricket]

Heavy risk stirring the thread by replying. I suspect it would've died if I (or someone else) hadn't posted.

[Quarian Master Race]

I took "operatives" to apply to people like Miranda, Jacob, Leng, etc, ignoring the redshirts (or greyandorangeshirts?). 150 key organisational, scientific, technical and combat specialists. Imo it's the only way for it to make sense, 150 people can't possibly have pulled off a fraction of what they got done in ME2 alone.

yeah, this makes the most sense. Even in ME1 your squad kills what, 50 or so Cerberus mooks by themselves? You see in comics and other media in the pre ME3 era that they do have at least some private troops.

Zaeed also claims to have killed over 50 Cerberus operatives in dialouge. There's no way that an organization with about as many people working for it as a supermarket is capable of doing what they do.

[CrutchCricket]

I still like my outsourcing idea.

 

As far as ground troops in ME3 goes, it's not much of a stretch if they're sticking Reaper implants into people wholesale.

[txgoldrush]

Please quit denying evidence against your criticisms.

 

The ME2 codex foreshadows a Cerberus navy and forces, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ignorance.

 

And its not like they have a huge navy, they have at most two small fleets to protect Chronos and Omega, that's it. Everything else they do is single cruiser operations.

[txgoldrush]

Depends. Revan got treated as a chump by a lot of the Star Wars universe.

 

And in the end, it's all non-canon now anyway, as per Disney's new ruling, where they explicitly state that anything that is not movie or SWCW cartoon is not-canon.

However, The Old Republic is a grey area and the official story team not only are listed in the credits, Disney also watches over the MMO. Likely, it will be canon.

 

 

It kind of explains it, but it really doesn't. There's a leap between "stockpiling weapons" and fielding a genuine army. They make billions a year but still, how much do you reckon at least one cruiser, a fleet of frigates, a whole load of fighters, several space stations, research materials, ground vehicles, guns, personnel salaries, uniforms, suits of armour, money for payoffs and general maintenance must cost? Taking out the billions Shepard and the Normandy had to require. And all carried out by a network of what seems like between a few hundred and couple thousand people.

 

Look at their army even, they're said to have been stockpiling weapons and presumably armour for years, so how come their troops all have standardised custom built and designed armour and weapons that were clearly made from scratch?

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, that does not make sense.

First off, they aren't a genuine army, there all special forces with few numbers. In fact, the Eden Prime mission notes this fact, where Cerberus has to trick the colonists to thinking there is more of them than there is.

 

Second, it doesn't matter how much it cost, but the narrative suggests they were doing this while Shepard was being recovered.

 

Third, their navy simply put, isn't large. Its much smaller than say, an Alliance Fleet. Aria's fleet did pretty well against the fleet around Omega and the Fifth Fleet pretty much stomped the one at Chronos. Good ships, small navy. Two other times, we just see single Cruiser ops.

 

Cerberus is small in number even in ME3, but they have strong intel and good op command to make it seem they are more overwhelming than they are.

[Iakus]

Please quit denying evidence against your criticisms.

 

The ME2 codex foreshadows a Cerberus navy and forces, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ignorance.

 

And its not like they have a huge navy, they have at most two small fleets to protect Chronos and Omega, that's it. Everything else they do is single cruiser operations.

A cruiser is still crewed by hundreds of trained personel.

 

They lost one at Hagalaz when Liara crashed the Shadow Broker ship into one.

 

Aria captures another one

 

There's at least one other guarding Omega (likely more)

 

There is also one attacking Grissom Academy

 

Those are just the ones off the top of my head.  There's likely others.

 

And that still leaves enough shps to require Hackett to mobilize one or more fleets to attack Kronos.  Enough to draw the Reapers' attention.

 

I took "operatives" to apply to people like Miranda, Jacob, Leng, etc, ignoring the redshirts (or greyandorangeshirts?). 150 key organisational, scientific, technical and combat specialists. Imo it's the only way for it to make sense, 150 people can't possibly have pulled off a fraction of what they got done in ME2 alone.

Cerberus is whatever Bioware needs them to be at a given moment.

[Han Shot First]

A cruiser is still crewed by hundreds of trained personel.

 

They lost one at Hagalaz when Liara crashed the Shadow Broker ship into one.

 

Aria captures another one

 

There's at least one other guarding Omega (likely more)

 

There is also one attacking Grissom Academy

 

Those are just the ones off the top of my head.  There's likely others.

 

And that still leaves enough shps to require Hackett to mobilize one or more fleets to attack Kronos.  Enough to draw the Reapers' attention.

 

Cerberus is whatever Bioware needs them to be at a given moment.

 

Cerberus also loses a cruiser at Tuchanka if you do N7: Cerberus attack. The mission ends with the cruiser being shot down. 

[Fixers0]

Yeah, I know why Cerberus has a fleet in ME3; Because the narrative demanded it, there's your explanation.

[Display Name Owner]

Could've outsourced some special projects, particularly in the highly specialized tech fields.

 

Maybe, here and there, but just their construction projects alone would require huge teams of people, and more importantly to them they need secrecy. Kind of. Not so much secrecy as to avoid plastering their logo all over the place... Anyway, they couldn't have other people involved in their jobs and then allowed to go their own way and talk about it. Of course TIM would probably just have them killed, but it's more handy to recruit them and grow the organisation probably.

[Display Name Owner]

First off, they aren't a genuine army, there all special forces with few numbers. In fact, the Eden Prime mission notes this fact, where Cerberus has to trick the colonists to thinking there is more of them than there is.

 

Not that few, Shepard alone blows his way through, what? A couple hundred of Cerberus troops? I mean on Omega we kill masses of the guys. What I'm saying is that every one of these troopers is wearing Cerberus armour, which they manufactured personally somehow. In fact - it doesn't even make sense that they were making all this kit when it wasn't until after ME2 that they had any means of forcing people to use it for them.

 

 

Second, it doesn't matter how much it cost, but the narrative suggests they were doing this while Shepard was being recovered.

 

 

It matters if they want it to make some kind of sense. They established Cerberus' reach and limits in ME2 (and even then they were too powerful imo), and then in ME3 they achieve stuff they shouldn't have possibly been able to. That they were doing it whilst pouring a sizeable chunk of their finances into Shepard doesn't help the case.

 

Third, their navy simply put, isn't large. Its much smaller than say, an Alliance Fleet. Aria's fleet did pretty well against the fleet around Omega and the Fifth Fleet pretty much stomped the one at Chronos. Good ships, small navy. Two other times, we just see single Cruiser ops.

 

Cerberus is small in number even in ME3, but they have strong intel and good op command to make it seem they are more overwhelming than they are.

 

But the fact that they even have a navy that's capable of contending with military fleets is silly. Iakus reminded me of the other cruisers they have popping up all over the place. The point is that sure, the codex mentions what they're up to, but what they're up to is logistically impossible. What the codex says doesn't justify what Cerberus become able to do.

 

I know some suspension of disbelief is required - hell, sometimes I wish I were better at it - but Cerberus stretch that way too far, the other issue being that it's for the purpose of giving them a place in the plot that I don't even like them occupying. Another point you raise is the intel - TIM becomes some omniscient wizard somehow.

[God]

Please quit denying evidence against your criticisms.

 

The ME2 codex foreshadows a Cerberus navy and forces, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is ignorance.

 

And its not like they have a huge navy, they have at most two small fleets to protect Chronos and Omega, that's it. Everything else they do is single cruiser operations.

 

You're going to have make a lot stronger of an argument to support your claim than using one throwaway line of codex with dubious language as your 'indisputable proof'. Since said evidence does not exist (and is thus incapable of being denied), our criticism goes from your argument to you: Quit making silly leaps of interpretation and treating others as if they are less intelligent and uninformed as you. Quit making dubious claims with questionable (and unverifiable) evidence to push your own ideology and agenda forward to make yourself seem more 'in the know' and 'better' than anyone else.