324 réponses à ce sujet

[X Equestris]

Pay attention: The Rannoch Destroyer fires on the Normandy because the Normandy first, fires on the Destroyer, therefore, it gave itself away.

I don't think anyone was contesting that.

[Iakus]

Yup, I was contesting how an upgraded Normandy was a match for any non Sovereign -class warship.  A frigate is still a frigate.

[X Equestris]

Yup, I was contesting how an upgraded Normandy was a match for any non Sovereign -class warship.  A frigate is still a frigate.

I mean no one was claiming that there was any other reason for the destroyer to fire on the Normandy.

[CrutchCricket]

Yup, I was contesting how an upgraded Normandy was a match for any non Sovereign -class warship.  A frigate is still a frigate.

Dat thannix

 

(tbh)

 

But also the upgraded, plating, shields, skill of Joker and EDI's reaction times.

[o Ventus]

Yup, I was contesting how an upgraded Normandy was a match for any non Sovereign -class warship.  A frigate is still a frigate.

"Frigate" only classifies the ship based on its size. A frigate could have a million nukes on board and be the most dangerous piece of technology in the known universe if they built it as such.

 

When the Normandy is as small as it is and has the weapons it has, I'd be disappointed if it couldn't destroy a Reaper, considering it's using essentially a Reaper's main gun already, albeit on a smaller level.

[Iakus]

"Frigate" only classifies the ship based on its size. A frigate could have a million nukes on board and be the most dangerous piece of technology in the known universe if they built it as such.

 

When the Normandy is as small as it is and has the weapons it has, I'd be disappointed if it couldn't destroy a Reaper, considering it's using essentially a Reaper's main gun already, albeit on a smaller level.

 

Much smaller level.  Doesn't the codex say the thanix gives the Normandy the equivalent firepower to a (non-thanix) cruiser?  

 

The Normandy might be able to do some damage since barriers can't protect from the heat component of the canon.  But even a destroyer is freaking big, and tough.  One frigate-sized gun is unlikely to be enough barring a stupid amount of luck and/or plot armor..

[God]

Yup, I was contesting how an upgraded Normandy was a match for any non Sovereign -class warship.  A frigate is still a frigate.

 

Untrue. I don't think you understand relative classification of ships based on speed and operational role. A Frigate is used for patrolling littoral waters, or the shallows of a coastline out to the edge of the continental shelf. Modern frigates are by no means less capable of action or movement in deep water (blue water strategy), but are primarily oriented towards littoral maritime patrol. There is no designation for size or armament for a frigate. They can be as big and powerful as you want them to be. A modern LCS (Littoral Combat Ship, the replacement for the Oliver-Hazard Perry-class frigate) is more than capable of destroying a foreign nations fleet on its own, due to the nature of its onboard Electronic Warfare suite, armament, and stealth capabilities. 

 

In particular, this is how the U.S. Navy views the Littoral Zone:

 

 

Now, in the context of Mass Effect, frigates are (like most sci-fi definitions) rather inaccurate with the true meaning. That said, there is no special emphasis given on how a frigate can be armed or based on size. 

 

Given the Normandy's capabilities and assets, it is more than capable of taking on any ship of any size sans perhaps a larger, full-size Reaper.

 

Put the Normandy against a dreadnought, the Normandy will win. If what you say was at all true, then the Normandy would have never been able to take on the Collector cruiser.

[themikefest]

Much smaller level.  Doesn't the codex say the thanix gives the Normandy the equivalent firepower to a (non-thanix) cruiser?  

 

The Normandy might be able to do some damage since barriers can't protect from the heat component of the canon.  But even a destroyer is freaking big, and tough.  One frigate-sized gun is unlikely to be enough barring a stupid amount of luck and/or plot armor..

from the codex about destroyers

The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before they are themselves destroyed.

 

I would not be surprised if the Normandy can take down a destroyer by itself. Hit the thing from behind with the first shot and if it doesn't kill the destroyer, turn around and hit from behind again.  The thing has to turn around when it gets hit to see what is firing at it so that would give time for the Normandy to fire a second shot if needed.  

[o Ventus]

Much smaller level.  Doesn't the codex say the thanix gives the Normandy the equivalent firepower to a (non-thanix) cruiser?  

 

The Normandy might be able to do some damage since barriers can't protect from the heat component of the canon.  But even a destroyer is freaking big, and tough.  One frigate-sized gun is unlikely to be enough barring a stupid amount of luck and/or plot armor..

A Destroyer is 160 meters tall, or ~525 feet. It's not like the Normandy is a dwarf compared to a Destroyer.

 

It doesn't matter how big the gun is when the gun bypasses the kinetic barriers and punches through the armor of what it hits.

 

That's like claiming that a golden dart frog could never kill a human since your average adult male is more than a hundred times the size of one of the frogs, despite golden dart frogs being one of, if not the most toxic creatures in the world.

[KrrKs]

Untrue. I don't think you understand relative classification of ships based on speed and operational role. A Frigate is used for patrolling littoral waters, or the shallows of a coastline out to the edge of the continental shelf. Modern frigates are by no means less capable of action or movement in deep water (blue water strategy), but are primarily oriented towards littoral maritime patrol. There is no designation for size or armament for a frigate. They can be as big and powerful as you want them to be.[...]

Maybe definitions are a bit different, but the usual definition around here it that a frigate is the 'smallest warship still able to carry out independent operations', in contrast to Corvettes which can't operate too far from a 'base' for extended periods.

 

About (upgraded) Normandy vs. a Reaper destroyer: Given Sovereign's apparent lack of effective armour, a destroyer wouldn't stand a chance against a thanix shot that penetrates the shields.

[Iakus]

A Destroyer is 160 meters tall, or ~525 feet. It's not like the Normandy is a dwarf compared to a Destroyer.

 

It doesn't matter how big the gun is when the gun bypasses the kinetic barriers and punches through the armor of what it hits.

 

That's like claiming that a golden dart frog could never kill a human since your average adult male is more than a hundred times the size of one of the frogs, despite golden dart frogs being one of, if not the most toxic creatures in the world.

Ah, but a thanix doesn't entirely bypass the kinetic barriers.  It's a hybrid mass/energy weapon.  The heat passes through the barrier, but the slug can still be slowed or stopped.  Soit's not like the thanix is a magic bullet (if it was, we wouldn't need the Crucible)

 

A ship like the Normandy could do enough damage to damage or destroy a Destroyer-class Reaper, given time, luck, and no reinforcements.  At least going by the codex (Rannoch and Earth seem to indicate Destroyer armor is still heavy with Plot).  But all it would take is a single mistake on Joker or EDI's part and the ship would be paste.

[themikefest]

 But all it would take is a single mistake on Joker or EDI's part and the ship would be paste.

Only if Joker flies in front of it. Hit the reaper from behind. The thing has to turn around for it to know what is firing at it and by that time the Normandy can fire another shot at the reaper

[Vazgen]

But all it would take is a single mistake on Joker or EDI's part and the ship would be paste.

I think that's true for pretty much every combat encounter with anything more than a frigate.

[o Ventus]

Ah, but a thanix doesn't entirely bypass the kinetic barriers.  It's a hybrid mass/energy weapon.  The heat passes through the barrier, but the slug can still be slowed or stopped.  Soit's not like the thanix is a magic bullet (if it was, we wouldn't need the Crucible)

 

A ship like the Normandy could do enough damage to damage or destroy a Destroyer-class Reaper, given time, luck, and no reinforcements.  At least going by the codex (Rannoch and Earth seem to indicate Destroyer armor is still heavy with Plot).  But all it would take is a single mistake on Joker or EDI's part and the ship would be paste.

 

The Thanix Is a magic bullet, for all intents and purposes. It's a stream of molten metal (white hot metal, if the assault on the Collector Base is to be taken seriously in ME2). The heat bypasses the barriers and the metal punches through the armor. Even if it doesn't punch through armor, it will warp and melt the armor, making it useless. Metals are conductors too, so the energy in the heat will travel easily throughout the frame of the armor (though depending on what Reaper armor is made of, like aluminum or titanium, for example, the energy will not travel as fast since some metals don't conduct as easily as others).

 

If it doesn't kill its target outright, it will strip away its defenses and leave it open for a second shot.

[Iakus]

The heat does bypass the barriers and can melt armor.  But the metal can still be stopped by kinetic barriers like any of mass effect weapon.

 

Like I said, it's a hybrid weapon.  not entirely a slugthrower, not entirely an energy weapon. 

[o Ventus]

The heat does bypass the barriers and can melt armor.  But the metal can still be stopped by kinetic barriers like any of mass effect weapon.

 

Like I said, it's a hybrid weapon.  not entirely a slugthrower, not entirely an energy weapon. 

 

It's fired in a beam, and kinetic barriers don't last forever. They're going to give out eventually (sooner rather than later, considering the heat from the Thanix projectile would be heating the hull of the ship and damaging the interior). Any ship with personnel on board would be in trouble. Granted, Reapers are largely unmanned, but we know they DO carry crews of indoctrinated people, a la ME1 (and husks, I would guess).

 

If the Normandy can sustain the beam longer than the Reaper is able to maintain its shield, then the Reaper is going down.

[Vazgen]

If the Normandy can sustain the beam longer than the Reaper is able to maintain its shield, then the Reaper is going down.

The thing is, it can't. Normandy's strength is maneuverability. Necessity to sustain the beam restricts the ship's movements. Even the Collector Ship hit it once, Reaper shots will probably be more precise and damaging.

[o Ventus]

The thing is, it can't. Normandy's strength is maneuverability. 

So hit it once, evade when it fires, fly around the back end of the Reaper, and hit it again?

 

It's not exactly rocket science.

[von uber]

I'm surprised the Reapers do not have automatic targeting. That's 20th Century tech.

[Vazgen]

So hit it once, evade when it fires, fly around the back end of the Reaper, and hit it again?

 

It's not exactly rocket science.

Yes, but the shields have the ability to restore themselves. 

I agree that hit and run tactics are the only way to go about it and that they might even give the Normandy a certain advantage, but the risk is too high IMO. 

[Vazgen]

On the other hand, even Joker was impressed at Sovereign's manueverability (when it took a sharp turn at Virmire....he said that move would tear other ships apart)... so maybe that doesn't even apply.

Sovereign was probably the most advanced and powerful Reaper out there. Its only weakness was that he was a huge fan of Mortal Kombat and couldn't pass up a chance to play with Shepard

[Vazgen]

All of those big ones are based on Harbinger.

Yeah, Harby also liked MK. Assuming direct control. Fight