324 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

If I was willing and able to go for gusto it'd have to be the 918. Sounds like fun to have a hybrid that can turn your innards into NASA's high-G simulator.

But anyway, how bout that Cerberus fleet? Wierd right?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Did people get banned?

 

This thread got very quiet all of a sudden; and I just made a whole bunch of popcorn.

[Grieving Natashina]

Did people get banned?

 

This thread got very quiet all of a sudden; and I just made a whole bunch of popcorn.

This is a great thread to lurk in.  This argument is probably ~3 years old at this point, so I'm just watching and learning.  Funny thing is that I find myself agreeing with God about this.  I find it amusing since I'm an agnostic and yet, I agree with God on the forums.  

[txgoldrush]

 

The ships Cortez so skillfully avoids in the opening cutscene are Cerberus cruisers. You can tell by their glorious logo strapped on them and color scheme

Spoiler

 

 

I really have no idea where that wiki page got information on corvette ships. There is no mention of those neither in the codex nor in the books (I just checked). Maybe comics? But I don't remember anything of a sort in those... There is no mention of corvette ships in the known starships page either.

 

I don't think those would work in ME universe with all the advanced scanners, weaponry, and limitations of FTL technology not allowing for collisions at FTL speeds.

 

They spent two years building the Normandy because of a shackled AI, stealth system and size complications (SR2 is two times larger than SR1 which can cause all sorts of problems). And cruisers are presented in the codex as the "poor bloody infantry" of most fleets. I don't think that ships falling under such classification are that hard to manufacture.

 

They did build up in advance. Ascension mentions that: There were other research bases and other training facilities located in systems both inside and outside of Council space. There were also the bases Shepard encountered in ME1 (which I don't think were the only ones Cerberus had).

 

Ok, I was wrong on that....but in the end, its unrelated to the original point I make in this thread.

 

But wow, is it hard to see whose ship it is with the "sun" background. Unique place to have a space battle though.

 

And cruisers are really not that significant either in a factor against my plausibility argument, as you said. They are actually perfect however, for what Cerberus is actually doing and it fits the lore well.

[Steelcan]

Ok, I was wrong on that....but in the end, its unrelated to the original point I make in this thread.

 

But wow, is it hard to see whose ship it is with the "sun" background. Unique place to have a space battle though.

 

And cruisers are really not that significant either in a factor against my plausibility argument, as you said. They are actually perfect however, for what Cerberus is actually doing and it fits the lore well.

Cerberus could build a gorram Death Star and you'd find a way to excuse it

[General TSAR]

And cruisers are really not that significant either in a factor against my plausibility argument, as you said. They are actually perfect however, for what Cerberus is actually doing and it fits the lore well.

Like the Cerberus Dreadnought? (6:11)

 

In retrospect I think Bioware would have been better off using indoctrinated Batarians or the Collectors for the missions where Cerberus played the role of Reaper cannon fodder. (Tuchanka, Sur'Kesh, Omega, ect) Save Cerberus for more fifth column stuff and the Citadel coup. 

Exactly, Cerberus should have been something like CAT6.

[txgoldrush]

No evidence of a Cerberus dreadnought....you are grasping at straws.

 

The closest thing you can come up with is that the command ship was the Elbrus (this theory does make sense because that was Oleg's ship), which is a CRUISER, but named after the dreadnought of the Alliance.

 

But lets say it was a dreadnought....that would not make my argument invalid.

 

Once again, the codex in ME2 says that Cerberus was stockpiling ships, agents, and weapons. You are now seeing them in ME3.

 

And really, bashers simply refuse to accept this canon, they try and move the goalposts to argue against it.

[Steelcan]

No evidence of a Cerberus dreadnought....you are grasping at straws.

 

The closest thing you can come up with is that the command ship was the Elbrus (this theory does make sense because that was Oleg's ship), which is a CRUISER, but named after the dreadnought of the Alliance.

 

But lets say it was a dreadnought....that would not make my argument invalid.

 

Once again, the codex in ME2 says that Cerberus was stockpiling ships, agents, and weapons. You are now seeing them in ME3.

 

And really, bashers simply refuse to accept this canon, they try and move the goalposts to argue against it.

there's a limit to the amount of "stockpiling" that I'm willing to accept, and when Cerberus goes from 150 operatives, to a pan-Galactic organization capable of fighting on worlds like Sur'Kesh (a gorram Council Homeworld) Tuchunka, several Alliance colonies, Turian Colonies, can airdrop right in the middle of the clusterf*ck called Thessia, and maintain not!Auschwitz, and attack the Citadel, and hold Omega, it stretches credibility more than a tad

[General TSAR]

No evidence of a Cerberus dreadnought....you are grasping at straws.

Right, it just happens to share the exact same model as the Alliance Dreadnought.

 

Maybe if you close your eyes hard enough it will vanish from the game.

 

Once again, the codex in ME2 says that Cerberus was stockpiling ships, agents, and weapons. You are now seeing them in ME3.

 

And in the following novel, Cerberus was dealt a critical blow by the Turians and lost enough assets that TIM said that Cerberus was set back a decade; however, somehow they manage to have the resources to field dozens of Cruisers, a totally not Dreadnought, and an Army equipped with walking battle tanks capable of occupying Omega and Eden Prime while launching attacks on Sur'Kesh, the Citadel, the Volus homeworld, and Tuchanka. 

 

Totally not convoluted for an organization that had 150 staff and was reeling from a Turian offensive. 

[Display Name Owner]

They spent two years building the Normandy because of a shackled AI, stealth system and size complications (SR2 is two times larger than SR1 which can cause all sorts of problems). And cruisers are presented in the codex as the "poor bloody infantry" of most fleets. I don't think that ships falling under such classification are that hard to manufacture.

 

 

I'm not so sure building ships should be easy for them, it even took the Aliance 6 months to almost finish retooling an existing SR-2, and that's without the added issue of having to hide the whole project. Cruisers may be pretty standard for the Alliance, Turian Hierarchy, etc. but those are legitimate, large scale militaries representing entire planets. Entire federations of planets in fact. They can do it all openly, whereas Cerberus is using materials and money they get covertly and have to use a smaller pool of workers.

[God]

Did people get banned?

 

This thread got very quiet all of a sudden; and I just made a whole bunch of popcorn.

 

I got banned for my rather uncanny depiction of Mac Walters.

[Vazgen]

Right, it just happens to share the exact same model as the Alliance Dreadnought.

 

Maybe if you close your eyes hard enough it will vanish from the game.

 

 

And in the following novel, Cerberus was dealt a critical blow by the Turians and lost enough assets that TIM said that Cerberus was set back a decade; however, somehow they manage to have the resources to field dozens of Cruisers, a totally not Dreadnought, and an Army equipped with walking battle tanks capable of occupying Omega and Eden Prime while launching attacks on Sur'Kesh, the Citadel, the Volus homeworld, and Tuchanka. 

 

Totally not convoluted for an organization that had 150 staff and was reeling from a Turian offensive. 

What ship do Aria and Shepard use in the cutscene? Been too long since I played Omega.

 

About Turian blow, TIM says it himself that:

However, despite the damage done, Cerberus still survived. The Illusive Man’s network of followers was far larger than the Alliance could even imagine. There were other research bases and other training facilities located in systems both inside and outside of Council space. The network of scattered agent cells operating independently across the galaxy was still intact.

 

And for all we know Cerberus could've already had that dreadnought before Turian attack. 

 

What is this about Volus homeworld?

 

I'm not so sure building ships should be easy for them, it even took the Aliance 6 months to almost finish retooling an existing SR-2, and that's without the added issue of having to hide the whole project. Cruisers may be pretty standard for the Alliance, Turian Hierarchy, etc. but those are legitimate, large scale militaries representing entire planets. Entire federations of planets in fact. They can do it all openly, whereas Cerberus is using materials and money they get covertly and have to use a smaller pool of workers.

I assume they presented their operation as a military contract with Alliance so they could openly build ships without worrying about covering their tracks. As for SR-2, I see it as a special case as it is, according to Shepard, the most advanced ship in the galaxy. Working on it is a quite complicated process, that's why it took two years to build and 6 months to retrofit. 

 

There are things in the trilogy that the devs didn't even bother to explain (*cough*Synthesis*cough*). They did at least try to explain sudden change of Cerberus power. Of course, it's not a perfect explanation and it requires a fair amount of headcanon to be plausible. My approach is to try to explain as much as possible using established lore. It allows me to still enjoy and have fun with the games of the trilogy. Though there are still things that I still can't make sense of, like Synthesis, Cypher, Thorian cloning Shiala etc., which Bioware didn't even bother to explain. I prefer to focus on those issues. 

[God]

No evidence of a Cerberus dreadnought....you are grasping at straws.

 

The closest thing you can come up with is that the command ship was the Elbrus (this theory does make sense because that was Oleg's ship), which is a CRUISER, but named after the dreadnought of the Alliance.

 

But lets say it was a dreadnought....that would not make my argument invalid.

 

Once again, the codex in ME2 says that Cerberus was stockpiling ships, agents, and weapons. You are now seeing them in ME3.

 

And really, bashers simply refuse to accept this canon, they try and move the goalposts to argue against it.

 

Cerberus Cruiser Elbrus.

 

While called a cruiser, it fits the naming convention of human dreadnoughts being named after great mountains: in this case, Mt. Elbrus, the highest point in Europe.

 

Not to mention, it has the same model in-game as an alliance dreadnought. 

 

The codex in ME2, which is unsupported and unsubstantiated at any other point in ME2. This has been discussed already. It's coincidence, not intent. 

 

If you're proclaiming that no one gets it but you, and everyone else disagrees with you, typically, that means you're the only one who didn't get it.

[Vazgen]

Fun fact:

Dirty Little Secrets time. The cruisers in the battle of the Citadel are using a model intended to be an Alliance dreadnought. The cinematics department didn't read the Codexes specifying that humanity only has six, and only uses them for long ranged combat. When we saw shots showing up to 15 "dreadnoughts" on screen at a time, we had to re-designate the model as a cruiser. Stormwaltz 16:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

 

Link

 

Stormwaltz was a writer on ME1 and ME2

[Darkarus]

Ok not a fan of Cerberus taking the place of secondary villain in me3 l. But the only way it makes sense within the games for the fleet(s) Cerberus has to exist is that they bought ships t by at the alliance retired and rearmed them. The people to work the ships I suspect come from Horizon/Sanctuary.

[God]

It doesn't make sense though, since the Cerberus ships are implied to be on the same level (or even technologically superior) than the alliance.

 

Really, the best thing to call it is a plot hole, and writers not doing their research or ignoring established lore to make the story they want.

[von uber]

Simple thing is to see what edi says about cerberus income in me2. Then use that to extrapolate likely cerberus procurement ability.

[Vazgen]

@God (can't believe I address you ) the Alliance already has a dreadnought called Elbrus - SSV Elbrus. Link 

[Iakus]

Simple thing is to see what edi says about cerberus income in me2. Then use that to extrapolate likely cerberus procurement ability.

Only if Cerberus cruisers are made of solid gold  

[voteDC]

Did people get banned?

 

This thread got very quiet all of a sudden; and I just made a whole bunch of popcorn.

Speaking for myself, I've made my point and honestly there isn't anything else I can add. Sometimes you just have to stop.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Speaking for myself, I've made my point and honestly there isn't anything else I can add. Sometimes you just have to stop.

 

I know the feeling...

 

...at least rationally. There's a part of me that just gets incredibly irked sometime and I feel the need to lash out. Luckily, there's an ignore list to help me.

[God]

@God (can't believe I address you ) the Alliance already has a dreadnought called Elbrus - SSV Elbrus. Link 

 

Care to cite that? Where is the information coming from? It may be coming from the Wiki, but what source is the Wiki basing it off of?

 

Wiki's only work when they're properly cited.

[Vazgen]

Care to cite that? Where is the information coming from? It may be coming from the Wiki, but what source is the Wiki basing it off of?

Wiki's only work when they're properly cited.

True, especially since I myself asked for a source on another wiki fact a page before. It's from the codex under Starships: Dreadnoughts. Link

[txgoldrush]

The alliance has a dreadnought named SSV Elbrus, but the Cerberus Elbrus, which is Oleg's flagship, is a cruiser. So there are two Elbrus named ships.

[txgoldrush]

there's a limit to the amount of "stockpiling" that I'm willing to accept, and when Cerberus goes from 150 operatives, to a pan-Galactic organization capable of fighting on worlds like Sur'Kesh (a gorram Council Homeworld) Tuchunka, several Alliance colonies, Turian Colonies, can airdrop right in the middle of the clusterf*ck called Thessia, and maintain not!Auschwitz, and attack the Citadel, and hold Omega, it stretches credibility more than a tad

Do you not even pay attention to the narrative?

 

First off, its explained all throughout ME3 how they get their army, through Reaper implants on first volunteers, than abductees and refugees. Thats a major part of the Cerberus arc. Second, they are a force that strikes fast and quickly, but do not have the numbers. In fact, on Eden Prime, two big datapads...

 

"We've taken more able-bodied men and women from pacified neighborhoods. The colonists generally have accepted the story that they have gone to perform tedious but safe manual labor in a Cerberus research camp on the other side of the planet, and when we increased food rations as "payment for the work", most of the complaints died out.

Maintain the story as long as possible. We don't have the manpower to fight the entire colony, and if these families knew they were never going to see their sons and daughters again, there's no way they'd cooperate. "

 

and this.....

 

"Local resistance is heavy in the south and west sections of the colony. We've pulled most of our troops from the north neighborhoods to assist. All remaining troops in the north neighborhood: continue standard patrol activities to maintain the illusion of a large presence in that area. If the locals knew we were understaffed, they could do some serious damage."

 

So Cerberus does not have as many troops as you think. Why on Omega do they have to use force fields to keep the populace at bay? Also why do Cerberus troops flee when the coup is stopped? Simply put, they don't have the numbers. They have an illusion of a large, powerful presence.

 

Next, Kai Leng didn't just drop in on Thessia, he was there all along. Pay attention to the narrative.

 

And finally, Cerberus's increasing numbers ARE justifiable due to the horrors of Sanctuary. 

 

Face it, Cerberus is all about superior intelligence, and light and fast strikes. They do not do so well holding territory or head to head combat against large forces.