187 réponses à ce sujet

[Lebanese Dude]

 if a sequel is ever green lit.

 

Whatever your opinion of DAI is, a sequel at this point is guaranteed.

[Dio Demon]

This. Remember when games was just a form of entertainment just to have fun, not a tool for political purposes or for social justice or anything ? 

 

No offense but some things should be done in a proper way. Trying to "educate" or "raise awareness" of your players using games is to me a foolish idea. If you want to get people to be aware of things, to educate them, you get people who have been studying and researching and has had hands on experience with the subject matter to do it. You do not get some journalist or a group of developers who feel they know stuff to do it.

 

What Bioware is doing is a lot like what Varric tried to do in Cole's personal quest.

 

Here we have surface dwarf who spends his time writing fictional novels and doing business try to tell us how to deal with a Fade spirit. Varric has not studied the Fade, he has not studied Fade spirits, he has little to understanding of them and yet he somehow thinks he is qualified to offer advice regarding a troubled Fade spirit who manifested itself into Thedas. Sure he can say what he wants to say or what he feels he should say but we can either ignore his opinions or dismiss his opinions on the matter for his lack of knowledge on it.

 

Similarly, what do Bioware, a group of developers, know of transsexuals and transgenders ? Do Bioware developers devote their time to studying transpeople, understanding them and learning about them ? Or do Bioware developers just write what they feel is right ? Did they consult anyone from places such as John Hopkins Hospital which is well known for conducting research about transpeople and trans surgeries ? If so, I do not recall a mention of them in the credits. 

 

So let us compare what a Canadian game developer has to say versus experts in the field ? 

 

Bioware :- We should just accept them because feels. Trying to ask questions about them or to understand them or to make politically incorrect statements is somehow stupid. 

 

Actual experts :- http://www.jhunewsle...signment-76004/ , http://www.wsj.com/a...tion-1402615120 , http://cnsnews.com/n...rder-sex-change

 

So what we have are two different tale. Firstly, there is a difference between transsexuals and transgenders. From studies, transsexuals are healthy people while transgenders have lots of problems and some have classified them as a mental disorder. The situation has gotten so bad that a premier university hospital that used to offer sex change surgeries are no longer doing so due to the adverse effects.

 

Did Bioware attempt to enlighten its audience that there is a difference between transsexuals and transgenders ? Did they try to educated people on the problems being a transgender could cause, with or without social ostracization ? 

 

Nope. Yet they see fit to write dialogues calling the Inquisitor stupid for asking questions about Krem the wrong way. 

 

This is why I am firmly against developers and artists trying to "educate" or "enlighten" or "raise awareness" or "inspire" people.

They themselves are not well acquainted with the subject matter but somehow feel that they can just say or draw or program what they feel like without expecting any backlash. 

 

If people want to be aware or know more or be educated on something, they can search for books, journals, videos, articles that are written by people who actually research and study the subject matter. 

Go... play a different game...? I'm sorry if Krem offended your delicate sensibilities.

 

Also how do you know that no one at BioWare is transgendered (Transgendered: Trans - Transformation. Gendered - Gender. When we put them together kids we get Transformation Gender. Which when applied becomes transformed gender) Not mental illness. That would be transphobia.

 

Also the best people to tell what being a transgender means isn't some scholar it's a transgendered person themself that isn't a complete douche, thankfully there are plenty of them around

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Go... play a different game...? I'm sorry if Krem offended your delicate sensibilities.

 

Also how do you know that no one at BioWare is transgendered (Transgendered: Trans - Transformation. Gendered - Gender. When we put them together kids we get Transformation Gender. Which when applied becomes transformed gender) Not mental illness. That would be transphobia.

 

Also the best people to tell what being a transgender means isn't some scholar it's a transgendered person themself that isn't a complete douche, thankfully there are plenty of them around

 

Sensibilities ? Did I say I was offended ?

 

I am just saying things as they are and the reality is that Bioware are simply not qualified to go around "educating" or "raising awareness" of something they do not know about through a medium of entertainment. It is quite clear that the developers did not bother to understand sex, gender, transsexuals, transgenders and instead just choose to write what they feel about it, not what has been established as fact. 

 

I also prefer to value the opinion of those who study and research a subject matter as opposed to those who only have "subjective personal experiences". 

[Panda]

Sensibilities ? Did I say I was offended ?

 

I am just saying things as they are and the reality is that Bioware are simply not qualified to go around "educating" or "raising awareness" of something they do not know about through a medium of entertainment. It is quite clear that the developers did not bother to understand sex, gender, transsexuals, transgenders and instead just choose to write what they feel about it, not what has been established as fact. 

 

I also prefer to value the opinion of those who study and research a subject matter as opposed to those who only have "subjective personal experiences". 

 

Well the thing is that if everyone has to educate themselves as professors of topic before they can write characters who are trans, different sexuality than writer/artist, different race, different gender etc., well that would mean no art form would even have any kind of diversity in term of characters it portrayed. Some sense of understanding is needed, but Patrick Weekes already pounced ideas with some people who are trans so that should be enough.

[leaguer of one]

While I respect the right of individuals to live their lives in whatever way they want, I don't have to approve of their choices. And I don't want to have a political agenda forced on me while playing a computer game. 

but it's not.

[leaguer of one]

Sensibilities ? Did I say I was offended ?

 

I am just saying things as they are and the reality is that Bioware are simply not qualified to go around "educating" or "raising awareness" of something they do not know about through a medium of entertainment. It is quite clear that the developers did not bother to understand sex, gender, transsexuals, transgenders and instead just choose to write what they feel about it, not what has been established as fact. 

 

I also prefer to value the opinion of those who study and research a subject matter as opposed to those who only have "subjective personal experiences". 

Dude... Let not start with this because you'll just look foolish. Having a character of any gender, race or sex in a game is not "educating " or"raising awareness" about anything. If just has "said character" in the game. Nothing about Kern does that out side of show how that person feels about themselves and how they deal with it which is optional for the player to get into any way. Showing how human beings feel and live their lives normally is no a political agenda or an education of any sort. It a perspective and only that. Bw has long history of doing that.

 

If doing that is what "raising awareness"is(which it's not) then that mean ME2 and 3 is just an agenda to force political awareness for robotic life and alien life because every character there is treated the same way as Krem.

 

Anyone who has an issue with Krem in the game is just a narrow minded idiot.

[Lebanese Dude]

*snip*

 

Just ignore that poster. It's clear that they have an agenda, ironically.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Pandering as an insult is so stupid I cannot even fathom how one can use it with a straight face. Every single product of every single business ever made panders to a group of people; it's called marketing and it's how capitalism freaking works. Did I hear those people profess the doom of free speech because Dead or Alive panders to people who want to see buxom babes play volleyball? Almost every single FPS on the market for pandering to people who like guns? Kickstarter games for pandering to the niche gamers that financed their product? Or in real life, because X business in the American south harbors a confederate flag?

 

It just baffles me how people still use that word. Because, pretty much all the time I see it iused as an insult, pandering is only bad when it's not pandering to you. 

 

And cripes, it's not like the game puts Krem front and center. You need to talk to him twice, and that's only if you want to see IB. There is one optional conversation, in a 100 hour game, where Krem's transsexuality is brought up. You can express surprise or mild disgust at him. And Thedas is not a world in which persecution of sexual minorities is as strong as in ours, so it makes sense that your character can't freak out, just like it makes sense you can't walk up to Vivienne and tell her she's stupid because she's black and a woman.

 

Don't like it? Walk past Krem at Haven. There, done. No more having two or three lines in a video game offend your sensibilities. Sheesh.

[agonis]

Pandering as an insult is so stupid I cannot even fathom how one can use it with a straight face. Every single product of every single business ever made panders to a group of people; it's called marketing and it's how capitalism freaking works. Did I hear those people profess the doom of free speech because Dead or Alive panders to people who want to see buxom babes play volleyball? Almost every single FPS on the market for pandering to people who like guns? Kickstarter games for pandering to the niche gamers that financed their product? Or in real life, because X business in the American south harbors a confederate flag?

 

It just baffles me how people still use that word. Because, pretty much all the time I see it iused as an insult, pandering is only bad when it's not pandering to you. 

 

And cripes, it's not like the game puts Krem front and center. You need to talk to him twice, and that's only if you want to see IB. There is one optional conversation, in a 100 hour game, where Krem's transsexuality is brought up. You can express surprise or mild disgust at him. And Thedas is not a world in which persecution of sexual minorities is as strong as in ours, so it makes sense that your character can't freak out, just like it makes sense you can't walk up to Vivienne and tell her she's stupid because she's black and a woman.

 

Don't like it? Walk past Krem at Haven. There, done. No more having two or three lines in a video game offend your sensibilities. Sheesh.

 

How can you be so disobliging? He exists!

A political agenda is showed down my throat by his existence.  *sarcasm end*

 

On a more serious note: In my first PT I asked all the questions there where to ask. (Because I don´t like missing something out.) In my second PT I was all "Ok. Whatever."

Because in RL I would never start a conversation with a stranger by investigating their sexuality. That´s a bit indiscret. And it is none of my business.

[Lebanese Dude]

*snip*

 

Agreed for the most part. It's just that the word "pandering" carries certain negative connotations.

 

In fact, its definition is "to gratify or indulge an immoral or distasteful desire or taste".

 

So .... yeah. You can see how it can ****** people off when used in this context.

 

A better phrase would be "targeting" or "appealing to". 

[Heathen Oxman]

Pandering as an insult is so stupid I cannot even fathom how one can use it with a straight face. Every single product of every single business ever made panders to a group of people; it's called marketing and it's how capitalism freaking works. Did I hear those people profess the doom of free speech because Dead or Alive panders to people who want to see buxom babes play volleyball? Almost every single FPS on the market for pandering to people who like guns? Kickstarter games for pandering to the niche gamers that financed their product? Or in real life, because X business in the American south harbors a confederate flag?

 

It just baffles me how people still use that word. Because, pretty much all the time I see it iused as an insult, pandering is only bad when it's not pandering to you. 

 

And cripes, it's not like the game puts Krem front and center. You need to talk to him twice, and that's only if you want to see IB. There is one optional conversation, in a 100 hour game, where Krem's transsexuality is brought up. You can express surprise or mild disgust at him. And Thedas is not a world in which persecution of sexual minorities is as strong as in ours, so it makes sense that your character can't freak out, just like it makes sense you can't walk up to Vivienne and tell her she's stupid because she's black and a woman.

 

Don't like it? Walk past Krem at Haven. There, done. No more having two or three lines in a video game offend your sensibilities. Sheesh.

 

Exactly this.

 

McDonald's "panders" to people who like hamburgers.  Comcast "panders" to people who like to watch TV.  Bioware "panders" to non-traditional gamers.  If someone doesn't approve of it, they can take their money to a different game developer.

 

Seesh.

[In Exile]

Pandering is just a way of saying "catering to someone who is not me".

[frankf43]

Pandering is just a way of saying "catering to someone who is not me".

And I thought it was sitting on the floor eating bamboo shoots.