186 réponses à ce sujet

[Dabrikishaw]

I'm really glad she's basically gone now.

[Dieb]

 

 

Because actually, designer's notes were found in the game files, describing what should happen in this scene?

 

 

It's a simple deduction from the fact that Mythal maintains here faux immortality this way.

 

Morrigan's paranoia-discovery/personal quest from DAO ring any bells? The legend states that Flemeth has daughters only to take over their bodies, which is the very reason Morrigan starts her unusual little adolescent rebellion in the first place - it may not be as gruesome as it sounded at first, but in essence, she was sort of right all along.

[tanuki]

It's a simple deduction from the fact that Mythal maintains here faux immortality this way.

 

Morrigan's paranoia-discovery/personal quest from DAO ring any bells? The legend states that Flemeth has daughters only to take over their bodies, which is the very reason Morrigan starts her unusual little adolescent rebellion in the first place - it may not be as gruesome as it sounded at first, but in essence, she was sort of right all along.

It's not about whether Mythal managed to create copies of herself to avoid ultimate death (I consider that outcome totally plausible), but about what happened in the epilogue, and what did happen is Solas taking Flemeth/Mythal power, or, rather, Mythal willingly giving it to him.

[Jester]

Solas already did the handling for them.

 

Flemeth's story is over. She was sending her "godhood" to Morrigan through the Eluvian as we know from the dev notes. If anything, Morrigan is going to become the new wild-card superwoman that Flemeth previously was.

I keep wondering, why people think that Solas killed Flemeth. It can be clearly seen, that Flemeth's soul/essence/whatever, enters Solas' body. 

This is basically the definition of bodyjumping.

 

She's wearing Solas' meatsuit now - or whatever is in Solas' body is more than Fen'Harel or Mythal - it's both of them combined, or 2(3?) personalities at once. 

[Dieb]

It's not about whether Mythal managed to create copies of herself to avoid ultimate death (I consider that outcome totally plausible), but about what happened in the epilogue, and what did happen is Solas taking Flemeth/Mythal power, or, rather, Mythal willingly giving it to him.

But that's what I was on about. It's not about her power, but about Mythal herself.

 

You will note that Flemeth's body is completely drained and looks sort of "rotten" while Solas is holding her, as far as I remember it. She just pulled her best trick one more time.

 

edit:

So yeah, I guess the agency questions remains speculative.

But the way the two are, I'd be highly suprised -more than Solas being involved and knowing way more than he let on over the course of the game- if Solas drained Flemeth of Mythal's essence, rather than Flemeth forcing herself onto him for some reason. My assumption is, for some reason she deemed it more favourable to transfer into Solas' body. If I didn't know any better, I'd say Flemeth coined the phrase "when the time comes you'll know" - so it doesn't have to make sense right now for me to automatically believe it.

[The Loyal Nub]

I'm really glad she's basically gone now.

 

Don't count on it.

 

Flemeth has jumped bodies before. Something tells me the way was prepared and It's possible Solas was doing something already agreed upon with Flemeth. It's been assumed by many to have been a hostile act. 

[In Exile]

I keep wondering, why people think that Solas killed Flemeth. It can be clearly seen, that Flemeth's soul/essence/whatever, enters Solas' body. 

This is basically the definition of bodyjumping.

 

She's wearing Solas' meatsuit now - or whatever is in Solas' body is more than Fen'Harel or Mythal - it's both of them combined, or 2(3?) personalities at once. 

 

The dialogue makes it obvious it is Solas who has taken her power. The entire dialogue is (1) Solas lamenting that he made a terrible mistake, and should be punished for it, but (2) the "People need [him", so in fact he will not be punished, but do something worse; (3) he apologizes (for what he will do); and (4) Mythal apologies (seemingly to commiserate with Solas, but likely for a very different plot she put in motion to thwart him).

 

The people arguing Mythal is the one in charge are a bit like the people who were insisted Corypheus died at the end of legacy. 

[CronoDragoon]

I keep wondering, why people think that Solas killed Flemeth. It can be clearly seen, that Flemeth's soul/essence/whatever, enters Solas' body. 
This is basically the definition of bodyjumping.
 
She's wearing Solas' meatsuit now - or whatever is in Solas' body is more than Fen'Harel or Mythal - it's both of them combined, or 2(3?) personalities at once.

Besides what In Exile said, we know from the developer notes on the scene that Solas absorbed Mythal's power. No Mythal bodyjumping.

Even without the developer notes it was clear to me Solas had absorbed Mythal, though. You'd have to ignore what they say to each other to think otherwise, and it makes more narrative sense for Solas to remain since his story is just beginning whereas Mythal's "secrets" have now been revealed.

[trevelyan_shep]

I'm glad she is gone, because I found her to be completely boring.

[In Exile]

Developer notes mean nothing. Data sitting on a disc that is never introduced into a game is meaningless and not worth considering. Now, if y'all can get a video or audio clip of one of the devs actually saying, "yes, Solas came out on top in the epilogue and there is no other way to interpret it" then I'll change my tune. Otherwise, I'm sticking with my interpretation.

I killed Leliana a couple of times.
I killed Sten at least once, yet he's apparently the Arishok.
I killed Oghren in one playthrough, yet he appeared in Awakening.

(those are not complaints about retcons, just showing that not everything is set in stone)

The dev notes haven't really been wrong. Bioware changing the plot is not the same as what a scene intends to show.

[Fearsome1]

A piece of Flemeth was transported to the Dalish Camp near Sundermount (outside Kirkwall) unbeknownst to Hawke (who had actually carried the enchanted amulet containing a portion of her essence). This allowed Flemeth to magically reconstitute herself. Until I see further evidence to the contrary that she is decisively dead, then I will continue to believe that she may reappear.

 

I like this character quite a bit!

[Steppenwolf]

Developer notes mean nothing.  Data sitting on a disc that is never introduced into a game is meaningless and not worth considering.  Now, if y'all can get a video or audio clip of one of the devs actually saying, "yes, Solas came out on top in the epilogue and there is no other way to interpret it" then I'll change my tune.  Otherwise, I'm sticking with my interpretation.
 
I killed Leliana a couple of times.
I killed Sten at least once, yet he's apparently the Arishok.
I killed Oghren in one playthrough, yet he appeared in Awakening.
 
(those are not complaints about retcons, just showing that not everything is set in stone)

The burden of proof is on you. They could very well change the story somewhere down the line, but at this point we know that Solas took Flemythal's power/essence/godhood and left her body a crumbling husk. The only thing, at this point, that could change Mythal's fate is if a part of her power was given to Morrigan through that Eluvian and now Morrigan is Mythal's avatar. But there's no reason to think Flemeth will ever be kicking around again.

[sim-ran]

Gosh there's a lot of daft comments on here. How can people be so blindly certain of exactly what took place in an epilogue that contains so much deliberate ambiguity?!

Also to the guy a few posts ago, even if a random dev note hidden on the disk DID state that the scene is Solas stealing Flemeth's power, how does that prove she's definitively dead? We've seen her rise from death before using a fragment of herself, and see her putting something in the eluvian before Solas arrives. Drained of power is not necessarily equal to dead for a character like this.

There are so many different interpretations of what we saw, and we'll no doubt not kmow the truth until the next game at the earliest.

[Steppenwolf]

How do you know that?  Point to something in game that absolutely proves that?  And by in game, I mean what is experienced while playing the game.  You may think it unfair of me to restrict what I will accept as proof to that, but that's how it is.  Fragments of notes left behind on an installation disc?  Big whoop.  How many things were changed along the development of the game?  Did the scour every bit of that stuff from the data one can mine?  

 

It is blindingly clear to me from the conversation, Mythal apologizing, the animations themselves, etc that Mythal took over Solas.

 

What you think happened is entirely irrelevant because we have facts that prove you wrong. If you want to convince anyone that you're right and the game files are wrong then you need to find evidence. You have none so you're just arguing against reality.

[Poledo]

Need more Flemeth, not less.

[SwobyJ]

I hope they are done with her. Also , Morrigan and Leliana too. If we are to get a new protaganist everytime they really shouldn't be dragging all the old chars to everygame

 

I want more Morrigan. 1-2 more games. I don't need her to be in the next one though.

 

I hope we're done with Leliana after this game. That isn't to say I hate her or anything, but I kinda feel her arc is largely done, you know? What's left to explore here? We've seen her two-facedness (faith/reality, peace/violence) in all its glory IMO. Maybe 1 more appearance at some point, but its not a big deal to me.

[In Exile]

How do you know that? Point to something in game that absolutely proves that? And by in game, I mean what is experienced while playing the game. You may think it unfair of me to restrict what I will accept as proof to that, but that's how it is. Fragments of notes left behind on an installation disc? Big whoop. How many things were changed along the development of the game? Did the scour every bit of that stuff from the data one can mine?

It is blindingly clear to me from the conversation, Mythal apologizing, the animations themselves, etc that Mythal took over Solas.

Solas approached her. He apologised first. He's the agent. The scene isn't that ambiguous.

[Aren]

I'm glad she is gone, because I found her to be completely boring.

Yes Flemeth of DAII and DAI is a delusional abominations that use to speak in riddles and nothing more.

[Frybread76]

I want more Morrigan. 1-2 more games. I don't need her to be in the next one though.

 

I hope we're done with Leliana after this game. That isn't to say I hate her or anything, but I kinda feel her arc is largely done, you know? What's left to explore here? We've seen her two-facedness (faith/reality, peace/violence) in all its glory IMO. Maybe 1 more appearance at some point, but its not a big deal to me.

 

In the next game Leliana will go even darker and will kick puppies and slit kittens' throats.  Her arc isn't over yet!

[SwobyJ]

Flemeth isn't dead. At least I don't think they'll kill off such a character in such an anti climactic manner. Flem/ythal is going to be back, either herself, or through Morrigan I'll wager a fortune.

As for dragging her character along, storylines clearly changed between DAO and DA2. They probably had something else planned for Flemeth when they were doing her part in DAO, maybe envisioned her as the big bad for the next game or something, but since things changed and that (whatever 'that' was) went into the dumpster, we now have them developing Flemeth's story as they go along. I'm cool with the cameos. It keeps me interested in the series. The day the series no longer has even a single major character from DAO, will be the day I lose interest in the story completely and then bye bye Dragon Age.

 

I think every future game should:

 

-Keep in touch with its Origins -- as in, DAO is always the start of this whole series of events in the Dragon Age

-Remember its Exodus (DA2) -- as in, the fate of Kirkwall and Hawke will be noted and involved with the fabric of the series

-Take heed with its Inquisition -- as in, what happened with the Inquisition had a significant impact on the world

 

Basically, I want continuity of some sort always - all the way back to the Origin/Ostagar/Lothering at times.

 

And we'll get it, so I'm not worried.

[Frybread76]

Yes Flemeth of DAII and DAI is a delusional abominations that use to speak in riddles and nothing more.

 

I like Flemeth, but I think she passed the torch to Morrigan with what she was doing with the eluvian before Solas/Fen'Harel took Mythal from her.

[SwobyJ]

In the next game Leliana will go even darker and will kick puppies and slit kittens' throats.  Her arc isn't over yet!

 

Given DAI's ending tone so far (unless a post-ending True Ending DLC of sorts happens), it'd be the other way - a relatively light and fluffy Leliana. She was darker in DAI for reasons that DAI's events then repairs (or at least the celebratory ending does).

 

Oh and unless the Inquisition itself goes super dark and her along with it.

[Aren]

I want more Morrigan. 1-2 more games. I don't need her to be in the next one though.

 

I hope we're done with Leliana after this game. That isn't to say I hate her or anything, but I kinda feel her arc is largely done, you know? What's left to explore here? We've seen her two-facedness (faith/reality, peace/violence) in all its glory IMO. Maybe 1 more appearance at some point, but its not a big deal to me.

I do not want to  see Mythal in any form  and Morrigan means Mythal now, with all the creators still somewhere, why Dragon age must lose others games for Mythal's big family, if someone wish another witch is better Yavana than see  Morrigan again.