186 réponses à ce sujet

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

Gods kill Mythal.

Solas traps gods, goes to sleep.

A surviving part of Mythal finds Flemeth and bonds with her.

Solas awakens and realizes he made a mistake which he seeks to rectify, i.e. release the gods.

Mythal wants the gods released so she can have her vengeance, hence she aids Solas.

She'll be back.

 

Succinct and too the point, nice summary.

 

Spoiler for JoH and another take on Flemeth's so called Death (highlight the lines below..

 

 

In JoH don't the Avvar say that Hakkon has to die to be reborn?

[In Exile]

Who is Solas talking about here: "much less someone that I once cared for"

 

Someone that I once cared for, is he saying Cole's spirit is someone he once cared for??

 

In short, yes. Solas says that he will follow a dark path, and that he doesn't want Cole to come along (who was likely reaching out). He's speaking generally, though, because he's also speaking for the benefit of the Inquisitor (IMO). 

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

I just want that BW drop whole "religion" as main plot from DA and get back to "fantasy" as main plot again!DA is meant to be fantasy RPG not "Oh let's kill Gods" RPG(we have game as GOW for stuff as that).

[Lethaya]

Who says they're really gods, though? And I dunno, I consider dragon gods and ancient elves pretty fantasy based. I mean, I loved all the lore we gained in DA:I, it expanded a lot on things that have interested me since DA:O. XD

 

I think a happy median situation would be best, though. Mixing things up a bit with a more grounded protagonist, but not casting aside or ignoring what we learned from DA:I, which would be such a waste. A more straightforward overall goal than we had in DA:I, with hints at something greater, basically. Kind of like DA2 in that respect actually.

 

In the end, though, I think it's probably best if Bioware goes where the story is heading, if that makes sense. DA:I felt like build up, and I'd like to see where they intend to go with that, you know?

[SwobyJ]

I just want that BW drop whole "religion" as main plot from DA and get back to "fantasy" as main plot again!DA is meant to be fantasy RPG not "Oh let's kill Gods" RPG(we have game as GOW for stuff as that).

 

Let us kill the Archdemon Old God that Tevinter worshiped...

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

In short, yes. Solas says that he will follow a dark path, and that he doesn't want Cole to come along (who was likely reaching out). He's speaking generally, though, because he's also speaking for the benefit of the Inquisitor (IMO). 

Is he talking about Cole or the Spirit that entered him though?

[Lethaya]

A spirit never entered Cole. Cole is a manifested spirit that took the shape of a human boy he sympathized, but he is not a possessed body. That's what makes him so strange. From his codex entry:

 

"As Solas insists that he is a spirit made manifest in the form of a young man, not a demon possessing an unwilling victim, I concede that he may not be malicious."

 

And some helpful Dorian banters:

 

Dorian: You're not possessing a human body, Cole? You... actually look like that?

Cole: Yes.

Dorian: But a spirit's true form is always monstrous, or at least unnatural.

Cole: The world doesn't make sense to them. It's too real. That's why they look wrong.

Dorian: And... this is how you want to look?

Cole: I want to help. Looking doesn't matter.

 

Dorian: Can you change your form, Cole? If you wanted to look like something else?

Cole: But I don't want to look like something else.

Dorian: Hmm. There are magisters who'd be ecstatic if they could summon a demon who could pass for human.

Cole: They would use it to hurt people.

Dorian: You're right about that. They would.

 

Dorian: Cole, are those real clothes, or-?

Cole: They're real. What else would they be?

Dorian: I thought maybe you'd conjured them, like your physical form.

Cole: Do you conjure yours? Is that why they look like that?

Dorian: Never mind, forget I said anything.

 

Basically, Cole crossed the Veil like demons and spirits can, but instead of manifesting as something more twisted, like a rage demon, or a wraith-like creature as we saw other spirits do in Crestwood, he took on a more human form, inspired by the dying boy he crossed over to help in the first place.

 

I hope that makes sense, gah. xD

 

 

On topic: Flemeth is, like, so great, guys. ;D

[tanuki]

For one they seem to have a mother /son kind of relationship, and while Solas is certainly far more wily than Morrigan I still don't see him outwitting Flemeth. Secondly she's been around plotting and planning for over a thousand years while he's been asleep since his last great escapade. in fact we don't even know that she does not have a hand in waking him up in the first place.

IMO the only way Flemeth is dead if she planned it to be so, or just could not see a way to help Solas after the orb broke, without sacrificing herself. In which case I'm certain she would have planned some way that Morrigan could assume her place.

Indeed, he didn't outwit Flemeth. I, for one, never argued that Solas tricked her somehow. What had happened was more likely done as an agreement between two, or Mythal just knew Solas' plans and for her own reasons decided to go along. And, as you say, Flemeth could die if she wanted it so and pass the torch to Morrigan, or managed to create another copy of herself, of which Solas may or may not know.

[turuzzusapatuttu]

Developer notes mean nothing.  Data sitting on a disc that is never introduced into a game is meaningless and not worth considering.  Now, if y'all can get a video or audio clip of one of the devs actually saying, "yes, Solas came out on top in the epilogue and there is no other way to interpret it" then I'll change my tune.  Otherwise, I'm sticking with my interpretation.

 

I killed Leliana a couple of times.

I killed Sten at least once, yet he's apparently the Arishok.

I killed Oghren in one playthrough, yet he appeared in Awakening.

 

(those are not complaints about retcons, just showing that not everything is set in stone)

 

Maybe they are not complaints, but they testify that you are a mean person 

[Beomer]

And, as you say, Flemeth could die if she wanted it so and pass the torch to Morrigan, or managed to create another copy of herself, of which Solas may or may not know.

 

I get it now.

Flemeth is basically Dumbledore, Solas is Snape and Morrigan is Harry Potter. 

[Killdren88]

Not at all. Flemeth is just fine really. She provides context although cryptic, but shows that there is a much bigger picture than what the story shows. It anyone has overstayed their welcome in the trilogy.... well if you've seen my post in the character threads that has been said already.

[Junebug]

Who is Solas talking about here: "much less someone that I once cared for"

 

Someone that I once cared for, is he saying Cole's spirit is someone he once cared for??

Well, if Lavellan romanced Solas, he's most likely referring to her. Or even the Inquisitor in general because he does respect them. He says "I must walk the path in solitude forever" and wanted to prevent Cole from seeing more than he already has. Whatever the consequences of his future actions, Solas wouldn't wish the journey he has to partake on his enemy much less people he cares for. At least, that's my interpretation.

 

Makes me excited for what that means for Flemeth/Mythal as well. She's cautious of Solas and knows he's up to something—she got prepared by putting Mythal's essence in the eluvian (I assume that's what that was in the final cutscene). !!!!! So exciting!

[dailyminerals]

Flemeth is one of the few consistent elements that threads its way through the entire series up to this point. So many plot elements in the Dragon Age games are sequestered into their own respective storylines that are born and then die in the confinement of their narrative niche. I think it's a good thing that they are building and developing Flemeth into something profound and substantive as the series progresses. A strong, compelling antagonist (which is what she is being groomed for, in my opinion) is something every story needs, especially in video games, and to have her eclipse the transitory, self-contained plots of each game only further solidifies her significance and depth as a character, as well as establishing her as a compelling force in the Dragon Age world as a whole.

[In Exile]

A spirit never entered Cole. Cole is a manifested spirit that took the shape of a human boy he sympathized, but he is not a possessed body. That's what makes him so strange. From his codex entry:

"As Solas insists that he is a spirit made manifest in the form of a young man, not a demon possessing an unwilling victim, I concede that he may not be malicious."

And some helpful Dorian banters:

Dorian: You're not possessing a human body, Cole? You... actually look like that?
Cole: Yes.
Dorian: But a spirit's true form is always monstrous, or at least unnatural.
Cole: The world doesn't make sense to them. It's too real. That's why they look wrong.
Dorian: And... this is how you want to look?
Cole: I want to help. Looking doesn't matter.

Dorian: Can you change your form, Cole? If you wanted to look like something else?
Cole: But I don't want to look like something else.
Dorian: Hmm. There are magisters who'd be ecstatic if they could summon a demon who could pass for human.
Cole: They would use it to hurt people.
Dorian: You're right about that. They would.

Dorian: Cole, are those real clothes, or-?
Cole: They're real. What else would they be?
Dorian: I thought maybe you'd conjured them, like your physical form.
Cole: Do you conjure yours? Is that why they look like that?
Dorian: Never mind, forget I said anything.

Basically, Cole crossed the Veil like demons and spirits can, but instead of manifesting as something more twisted, like a rage demon, or a wraith-like creature as we saw other spirits do in Crestwood, he took on a more human form, inspired by the dying boy he crossed over to help in the first place.

I hope that makes sense, gah. xD


On topic: Flemeth is, like, so great, guys. ;D

So, hypothetically, if a Fade spirit purported to act like a (hypothetically elven looking) god with a welsh accent, it could presumably do that?

[Lethaya]

Presumably it could, indeed. ;D Now wouldn't that be interesting?

[leaguer of one]

Succinct and too the point, nice summary.

 

Spoiler for JoH and another take on Flemeth's so called Death (highlight the lines below..

 

 

In JoH don't the Avvar say that Hakkon has to die to be reborn?

*point to Morrigian

[leaguer of one]

I just want that BW drop whole "religion" as main plot from DA and get back to "fantasy" as main plot again!DA is meant to be fantasy RPG not "Oh let's kill Gods" RPG(we have game as GOW for stuff as that).

But it's not. Bw only used religion as a cultural analysis not a theme. The theme is about faith and why people have it and depend on it and truth and how people react to it positively or negatively and what actions they do with it.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

"Oh Herald Of Andraste" 

                          +

"Oh Chantry the Chantry is always main goal"

                          +

"Oh spirit of faith might have possessed us"

                          +

"Flemeth carries soul of old Goddess" 

                          +

"Oh rumors suggest that Sera is Anduril or at least carries her sould just as Flemth"

                          +

"Oh Solas is old God too and most likely he is gonna be all Anders and crazy stuff so we might end up killing him"

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

 WHOLE GAME PLOT IS ABOUT SOME RELIGION AND WE MIGHT TURN IN KRATOS IN HERE!

 

Religion would not be theme if for example we got more screentime of Corypheus getting his real story and actually having plot focusing on main villain of story......instead the whole game is more focused on which one idiot will lay their a$$ on some ugly Chantry throne wearing stupid hat and being called Divine(again whole chantry case).So you could have been with your Inquisitor all "I'm not Herald/ I don't believe in God/s" but no matter how much anti-chantry you were once you finish game you realize that you have been "Jesus 2" of this game whatever you like it or not you are Jesus 2 in this game because once again whole plot was focused on Chantry and who is what God rather then actually focusing on making you want to stop main villain in here. 

[In Exile]

But it's not. Bw only used religion as a cultural analysis not a theme. The theme is about faith and why people have it and depend on it and truth and how people react to it positively or negatively and what actions they do with it.

 

It's also about history, and how we use that to build up a narrative of religion that might not even be close to true. The Dalish are an example of that having happened, and the Inquisitor (and Inquisition) are the story of it happening. This extends to the last Inquisitor of the previous Inquisition.

[Shechinah]

(to In Exile) I felt it was very interesting to see it acknowledged in the DLC by Scout Harding and others that, though what they do will be remembered, who they are and why they did it might not be which can be especially poignant if you are playing an Inquisitor who is either Dalish, qunari or dwarven.

[Lethaya]

Religion would not be theme if for example we got more screentime of Corypheus getting his real story and actually having plot focusing on main villain of story......instead the whole game is more focused on which one idiot will lay their a$$ on some ugly Chantry throne wearing stupid hat and being called Divine(again whole chantry case).So you could have been with your Inquisitor all "I'm not Herald/ I don't believe in God/s" but no matter how much anti-chantry you were once you finish game you realize that you have been "Jesus 2" of this game whatever you like it or not you are Jesus 2 in this game because once again whole plot was focused on Chantry and who is what God rather then actually focusing on making you want to stop main villain in here. 

 

Because Corypheus isn't a religious figure, right? Oh. Wait. XD

[Aren]

The day the series no longer has even a single major character from DAO, will be the day I lose interest in the story completely and then bye bye Dragon Age.

I'm on the opposite boat, Dragon age which represent the story of Thedas doesn't need to reuse the same characters over and over

 you has a great chance to "ruin" them, that is why like many i do not appreciate the Flemeth of DAII and DAI, from the dark Witch of the Wilds she is became a delusional abominations thirst of vengeance.

Leliana,Alistair,Morrigan,Varric (aside from Loghain because there is a great character development here) i found all of them to be less interesting in DAI compared to when they were introduced.

[In Exile]

I cannot wait for when DA stops the cameos. It's one thing if an NPC shows up or Morrigan replaces Flemeth. But I don't want random NPCs to keep showing up or getting expanded roles.

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

Because Corypheus isn't a religious figure, right? Oh. Wait. XD

Was he? Wait who was Corypheus in first place? Oh that is right we don't even F-ing know a thing about him except he was one of magisters who entered in "Black City(that supposedly was seat of Maker)" and that by "tale" again that is what made Blight.In another words we don't know again a thing about main villain in here at all!Because only times we see him we don't even find anything new about him instead we get story of some Elf Gods(that honestly I don't give a F about),about Andraste(that after playing both DAO and DA2 I don't even give a bigger F about) again and why is Divine important and which idiot will take her place? But villain? What about him? What about giving as a reason to truly wish to kill him? No! The game gave me more reasons to want to kill Mother Giselle,Leliana,my companions,some random NPC Bianca that shows only once then it ever game a single reason to even want to go against Corypheus. It was more like "Dude nothing against you I don't even bloody know a thing about you but have to kill you because game is making me to." in another words I felt like 5 years old that is doing something only because someone told me to do it but I don't even know why should I do it in first place.

I'm sure this was pointed out before me a lot in here by other people in here but villain as Sephiroth(FF7) is the one we needed because we knew lot of Sephiroth game focused on him as villain and he killed one of ours friends and made as wanting to kill him personal.That is my point get DA back to fantasy RPG! Give as a villain and a damn reason to hate them in first place....or option to even not fight against villain for RPG purpose like in Jade Empire.Speaking of JE I'm going to be annoying again and say give me Jade Empire 2 already damnit! 

[Lethaya]

His role in the Black City and the Chant of light makes him a religious figure in my book, as much as anyone else in DA religious lore so far. You can question him and the tales around him, sure, but I can do the same to the Old Gods, the Elvhen Pantheon or Andraste herself. Due to his mythical role, having Corypheus as the main villain basically made at least a bit of religious focus necessary. Hell, his role in DA2 seemed religion heavy by comparison to the rest of that game for me. Because... well, he's a magister. One of those that ruined the Maker's City and all that, and high priest to the most powerful of the Old Gods.

 

Religion has always played a part in DA games. DA:I definitely gives it more of a focus, yes, but that shouldn't be too far out of left field for the series,e specially when they made Cory the villain for this installment.

 

As for why the Divine is important, I'd assume for much the same reasons the Pope was at the height of the Catholic Church. When faith is central to society and the church encompasses so much, as the Chantry does, of course its figurehead is kinda important. Though I do think they could have made her feel a bit more so, showed us the weight of her role more rather than just talking about it so much.

 

Cory wants to kill you, and if he wins the world will be thrown into chaos, as we see in the time jump reality. He ripped a hole in the sky that is distorting the Veil all around the world, is raising a demon army to crush multiple kingdoms into submission, and aspires to Godhood. He killed the Divine and all those attending the Conclave - some of whom were probably friends of your Inquisitor's - just as she was attempting to put an end to a war that was tearing Thedas apart, causing even more confusion in the process. He utilizes red lyrium to mutate and control those who serve him, and gains more of by infecting people and mining their corpses. I'd say those are some pretty straightforward reasons to want him gone. XD

 

Attempt to be on topic - Flemeth being a religious figure felt fine for the game, too. But then, as I've said already, I don't feel like Bio's been dragging her on, so. Woo Flemeth? XD