Thermal Clip packs replenish grenades too??? LOL I didn't know that!!!
I have never used them because I don't play gun classes.... that's why some people seem to have unlimited grenades! I've been wondering about that.
...yes, I am a total n00b who only plays a few days every six months or so.
This has changed my life. My favorite character is the drell adept. Now I have 255 thermal clips to spend. 
*gets ready for gold solo*
All grenade powers are susceptible to lag, also heavily dependent on maps, yet people are complaining about nades being too OP, and this is a co-op game where there's no real competition.
BSN pls.
All grenade powers are susceptible to lag, also heavily dependent on maps, yet people are complaining about nades being too OP, and this is a co-op game where there's no real competition.
BSN pls.
A LOT of things are overpowered in this game, there just never is going to be perfect balance regardless and if there was it would be boring as ****.
Are nades OP? Not really in and off themselves. You could say some are really powerful like Infernos and Cain Mines. Anyone going to go out on a limb and say Frag Nades or Stickies are OP?
Nade capacity is where it gets interesting but still some nade powers still aren't that overwhelming and outside of the Merc, not that many nade based kits are going to be the TTK monsters that some kits like the GI, Trooper, Reegar Kroguard etc are.
All grenade powers are susceptible to lag, also heavily dependent on maps, yet people are complaining about nades being too OP, and this is a co-op game where there's no real competition.
BSN pls.
Tell that to the pugs I play with who squabble over spawns to nuke, prefer killing enemies to succeeding objective waves and don't revive teammates.
So... Inferno and cluster grenades are not broken? Multifrags? Yeah, well... XD
Hey, Inferno Nades turn Incindiary Ammo 2 into Incindiary Ammo 4. That alone made be unban Inferno Nades on my Spitfire KroSol & BatSol. XD
The problem is that some maps still don't give 2 grenades per box, and some even have a low number of boxes or they are in very bad locations. If it was more consistent to replenish grenades then yes I would agree with nerfing Nade capacity.
Try playing dagger or glacier with several grenade classes... you will be at each others throats over those nades. In fact I am pretty sure that type of situation is what made me start loathing the AIU's who keep joining my lobby
The thing is that if you still have Nade Capacity and 6 Clip Packs, you should still have enough nades without going to an ammo box once if playing Gold & below. Any more nades is overkill. Why I think Grenade Capacity is just too much in combination with Clip Packs.
I haven't read anything past this yet but, inferno grenades and cain mines say hi!
Oh yeah, the Talon Merc. Always forget him. Maybe because I only use Cain Mines like the pugs do to set up traps. And in my opinion, Caine Mines are fine when played like this instead of spamming them for the crazy armour dps boss melt fest. I don't even bother to stick in a match with a Caine Mine spammer. And not once do I ever hesitate to bail out on these matches. Not once. So yeah, you have your point.
Inferno Nades aren't as bad with my Spitfire setup. Since I barely have the chance to through any nades because I'm usually to busy working on trying to empty my 400 ammo Spitfire clip to bother with stopping the ramped up mayhem anyway. I just like em for some extra boss dps every now and then. But yes, if you max Inferno Nades with Amps & passives & what not, plus slap in on a high fire rate weapon with Incindiary Ammo 4, the cheese is too crazy. As in everything melts like yellow cheese.
I just hope we get Cryo and Polonium Nades in ME4, too.
Not really sure where I even stand on the grenade thing. They are a bit all over the place in power. Some go through walls and cover, some don't. Can't detonate combos at all except on health with lift. It is an odd hodge podge. And they were a lot less powerful when you didn't have grenade capacity gear.
Really I am not sure that no cooldown powers should exist in the game since the shared cooldown mechanic won't affect the classes equally. If they were all limited to soldiers, it might be one thing. But then again, giving them a cooldown like in ME2 didn't ever seem like the right way to handle it. It would probably be better if they were a much more scarce resource, where you only get the ones you start with and then an additional 1 from each thermal clip pack you burn, with no grenades from boxes.
Not really sure where I even stand on the grenade thing. They are a bit all over the place in power. Some go through walls and cover, some don't. Can't detonate combos at all except on health with lift. It is an odd hodge podge. And they were a lot less powerful when you didn't have grenade capacity gear.
Really I am not sure that no cooldown powers should exist in the game since the shared cooldown mechanic won't affect the classes equally. If they were all limited to soldiers, it might be one thing. But then again, giving them a cooldown like in ME2 didn't ever seem like the right way to handle it. It would probably be better if they were a much more scarce resource, where you only get the ones you start with and then an additional 1 from each thermal clip pack you burn, with no grenades from boxes.
Then people would QQ how Drell are useless, Demolisher would be a shadow of herself and so on.
Not really sure where I even stand on the grenade thing. They are a bit all over the place in power. Some go through walls and cover, some don't. Can't detonate combos at all except on health with lift. It is an odd hodge podge. And they were a lot less powerful when you didn't have grenade capacity gear.
Really I am not sure that no cooldown powers should exist in the game since the shared cooldown mechanic won't affect the classes equally. If they were all limited to soldiers, it might be one thing. But then again, giving them a cooldown like in ME2 didn't ever seem like the right way to handle it. It would probably be better if they were a much more scarce resource, where you only get the ones you start with and then an additional 1 from each thermal clip pack you burn, with no grenades from boxes.
Then people would QQ how Drell are useless, Demolisher would be a shadow of herself and so on.
then there wouldnt be any sense in maxing or taking grenades at all.
so many other skills and characters are OP'ed anyway.
then "nerf biotic explosions" threads would pop up everywhere because all biotic teams making all those booms on such short cooldowns would be the new "ruins the game" topic. especially since biotic explosions take the same percentage off enemies no matter the difficulty.
the point of the game is fun, if you feel overpowered and not having fun then gimp yourself if you want to if that what makes the game fun for you.
i dont need grenades to have fun, but i do have fun with grenades. 
Then people would QQ how Drell are useless, Demolisher would be a shadow of herself and so on.
I imagine grenade users would be rebalanced around the idea that they aren't spamming grenades anymore.
As long as we're doing major revamps, I'd probably either fix Pull so it's not terrible or give the Drell Vanguard/Adept a different ability.
There isn't really a good fix for grenades that doesn't require revamping a lot of kits in the game. I would almost say that they should not even have them in ME4 MP. At least not in their consumable with no cooldown format.
I imagine grenade users would be rebalanced around the idea that they aren't spamming grenades anymore.
As long as we're doing major revamps, I'd probably either fix Pull so it's not terrible or give the Drell Vanguard/Adept a different ability.
There isn't really a good fix for grenades that doesn't require revamping a lot of kits in the game. I would almost say that they should not even have them in ME4 MP. At least not in their consumable with no cooldown format.
Pull could have an evo like Lash where it works against shields/barriers and that would make it pretty strong.
That would also buff the Justicar though, so I don't know how necessary that really is.
Not really sure where I even stand on the grenade thing. They are a bit all over the place in power. Some go through walls and cover, some don't. Can't detonate combos at all except on health with lift. It is an odd hodge podge. And they were a lot less powerful when you didn't have grenade capacity gear.
Really I am not sure that no cooldown powers should exist in the game since the shared cooldown mechanic won't affect the classes equally. If they were all limited to soldiers, it might be one thing. But then again, giving them a cooldown like in ME2 didn't ever seem like the right way to handle it. It would probably be better if they were a much more scarce resource, where you only get the ones you start with and then an additional 1 from each thermal clip pack you burn, with no grenades from boxes.
The underlined part is the key, I think. No-cooldown powers with an exhaustible supply add variety to the game. But no-cooldown powers are only balanced with cooldown-based powers if the supply is actually exhaustible. A Drell Adept that can chuck 60+ Cluster Grenades in a single game is not balanced. If that number was more like 20 (2 per wave), that's closer to balance.
I'll be honest: I never use thermal clip packs. Never. Simply because I'm always running low on medigel, and I want to avoid buying JEPs as much as possible. And I also rarely use Grenade Gear, because grenade spam is boring. When I take the Drell Adept, I usually use an AR or Shotgun with Warfighter or Shock Trooper gear, and I rarely use more than 2-3 grenades per wave. He's still a really good class playing this way, but I rarely feel that I'm playing something "unbalanced."
I think I know why Grenade Capacity was introduced. As well as the main reasons for how BioWare balanced the game in other areas the same way. New players to the game don't spec into nades. I didn't, and many new to game pugs I see don't. So BioWare seen in their stats that it wasn't used as much, hence Grenade Capacity makes it's introduction to encourage it's use. Only problem is that for the people that do know how to play the game, it gives them an unfair advantage over the pugs even if the both have Nade Capacity V. Because Veterans know how to abuse them, while pugs don't. Hence the new pugs still suffer the most from this type by the stats balancing act. Why games should be balanced with those that know how to play in mind, because everyone reaches that point with enough playtime. Only way everyone wins, both pugs & veterans. Because as is, pugs get crushed by veteran nade spammers in matches. And no way the pugs are having fun under this condition and others.
I think I know why Grenade Capacity was introduced. As well as the main reasons for how BioWare balanced the game in other areas the same way. New players to the game don't spec into nades. I didn't, and many new to game pugs I see don't. So BioWare seen in their stats that it wasn't used as much, hence Grenade Capacity makes it's introduction to encourage it's use. Only problem is that for the people that do know how to play the game, it gives them an unfair advantage over the pugs even if the both have Nade Capacity V. Because Veterans know how to abuse them, while pugs don't. Hence the new pugs still suffer the most from this type by the stats balancing act. Why games should be balanced with those that know how to play in mind, because everyone reaches that point with enough playtime. Only way everyone wins, both pugs & veterans. Because as is, pugs get crushed by veteran nade spammers in matches. And no way the pugs are having fun under this condition and others.
I think I know why Grenade Capacity was introduced. As well as the main reasons for how BioWare balanced the game in other areas the same way. New players to the game don't spec into nades. I didn't, and many new to game pugs I see don't. So BioWare seen in their stats that it wasn't used as much, hence Grenade Capacity makes it's introduction to encourage it's use. Only problem is that for the people that do know how to play the game, it gives them an unfair advantage over the pugs even if the both have Nade Capacity V. Because Veterans know how to abuse them, while pugs don't. Hence the new pugs still suffer the most from this type by the stats balancing act. Why games should be balanced with those that know how to play in mind, because everyone reaches that point with enough playtime. Only way everyone wins, both pugs & veterans. Because as is, pugs get crushed by veteran nade spammers in matches. And no way the pugs are having fun under this condition and others.
Unfair advantage? In a co op?
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Just focus on the main point. Do you or not agree that BioWare used players stats for most of their balacing? ie. Let's just say for the introduction of Nade Capacity.
I imagine grenade users would be rebalanced around the idea that they aren't spamming grenades anymore.
As long as we're doing major revamps, I'd probably either fix Pull so it's not terrible or give the Drell Vanguard/Adept a different ability.
There isn't really a good fix for grenades that doesn't require revamping a lot of kits in the game. I would almost say that they should not even have them in ME4 MP. At least not in their consumable with no cooldown format.
I do agree pretty much with everything said, but...
GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF MY GRENADESSSS!!!!!
Until they fix geth stunlock first....
GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF MY GRENADESSSS!!!!!
Then people would QQ how Drell are useless, Demolisher would be a shadow of herself and so on.
People QQ about all sorts of things and often are wrong, as they would be in that case. Might need a tweak to Pull, as per other suggestions. Should probably have an area of affect at Rank 1, then a rank 6 evo to pull shielded units like Lash. DI wouldn't be affected much since he has mediocre grenades and a magic cooldown bomb.
Supply Pylon perhaps could still spawn grenades, but honestly an all grenade Engineer of all things was a half baked idea to start with, IMO. It wouldn't kill them to actually put a tech power on her.
People QQ about all sorts of things and often are wrong, as they would be in that case. Might need a tweak to Pull, as per other suggestions. Should probably have an area of affect at Rank 1, then a rank 6 evo to pull shielded units like Lash. DI wouldn't be affected much since he has mediocre grenades and a magic cooldown bomb.
Supply Pylon perhaps could still spawn grenades, but honestly an all grenade Engineer of all things was a half baked idea to start with, IMO. It wouldn't kill them to actually put a tech power on her.
Pulling shielded mooks would not solve the problem, since half the enemies can't be pulled due to armor.
I think I know why Grenade Capacity was introduced. As well as the main reasons for how BioWare balanced the game in other areas the same way. New players to the game don't spec into nades. I didn't, and many new to game pugs I see don't. So BioWare seen in their stats that it wasn't used as much, hence Grenade Capacity makes it's introduction to encourage it's use. Only problem is that for the people that do know how to play the game, it gives them an unfair advantage over the pugs even if the both have Nade Capacity V. Because Veterans know how to abuse them, while pugs don't. Hence the new pugs still suffer the most from this type by the stats balancing act. Why games should be balanced with those that know how to play in mind, because everyone reaches that point with enough playtime. Only way everyone wins, both pugs & veterans. Because as is, pugs get crushed by veteran nade spammers in matches. And no way the pugs are having fun under this condition and others.
See 2 or more enemies, throw a grenade.
It's not rocket science. But maybe it should be.
See 2 or more enemies, throw a grenade.
It's not rocket science. But maybe it should be.
That's the problem. Game has 8 enemy limit. Being able to take care of all mooks clumped together instantly is still very broken. Hence why it's called an I win button. Just keep running ammo box to ammo box and keep spamming that I win button along with clip packs I win aid button, and there's your broken game.
That's the problem. Game has 8 enemy limit. Being able to take care of all mooks clumped together instantly is still very broken. Hence why it's called an I win button. Just keep running ammo box to ammo box and keep spamming that I win button along with clip packs I win aid button, and there's your broken game.
If this is the "unfair advantage" that veteran players have, I'd say a bigger problem is you lesser races having trouble counting to 2
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