109 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I think it would certainly have an element of luck to it as well, sure.  Certainly if she made a sudden move she was risking the other ladies in the room.  My PC would have reasoned there wasn't enough of an opening with the captain and the other two guys with him.  With the two lone guys, yea she might have (and that still would have more to do with sneaking a dagger from one guard's belt after she lured him in close enough).  Again, wits over brute force.  My CE was a rogue, so she didn't have a lot of strength to be overpowering guys, it was more about subtlety and wit.

 

I kinda like having her using pure feminine wiles to make the guards stupid right before Soris slides the blade over though.  To me that was far more fun,   and adds some element of urgency to it since the other ladies have already been removed from the room and the PC is pressed for time to find and rescue them.

 

As to others, well, I think people will continue reading as I've gotten a couple of 'likes' in the interim already and I'm enjoying the debate. 

 

"I've gotten a couple of 'likes' in the interim already"

 

You have? I've barely gotten any from this thread. Not that I'm fishing for them now or anything, just stating how it is on my end.

 

Yeah, mine is a rogue too. It actually seems to me that most origins are much more fitting with some classes than others. Human noble and dwarven noble clearly fit best as warriors since they grow up in a warrior-like household (and the dwarven noble starts the game with armor on that you later find out is the model for massive dwarven armor).

 

City elf and casteless fit best as rogues, learning to be a rogue has a lower entry bar than warriors since being a warrior takes a certain level of discipline and training to know the precise form and footwork to using your weapon (and shield) correctly whereas all being a rogue takes is knowing how to swing a dagger decently and how to throw sand in your opponent's eye. Not to say rogues are more untrained, they take the amount amount of effort to become a master rogue as it does a master warrior. But rogues are something you can become without formal training, whereas formal training is pretty much mandatory to be a warrior. Which means it's fitting for the 2 origins where they're not very well trained, a rogue is the kind of class they would be considering that.

 

And Dalish can go either way since every clan so far has had their share of both warriors and rogues.

[sylvanaerie]

Okay, have a like from me, because your post mirrors exactly my way of thinking as well.  Some origins do fit well to one class or another.  My DN and HN's were both warriors, with classical, formal training, my DC and CE were rogues, less formal, more street stuff.  Also I feel the whole "not supposed to be armed" which is technically both of them, fits better someone who can stash a dagger in their boot or something.

 

I did like playing an archer for my DE though.  And I know that can go either way, but mine was an archer rogue.

[mousestalker]

One other note. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't get learned, taught or practiced. Historically, just about every trade was banned for one group or another. That didn't stop them from doing it. Just look up millers in medieval England. Also the history of Jewish fighters during the same period.

The city elf has one team mate. The Cousland has as many as three, plus some non-teamed side kicks. The mage goes solo through the Fade, acquires mouse then gets two, a rogue and another mage for the basement. The dwarf commoner goes solo in the Proving and get Leske for the breakout. The Dalish get Tamlen, then Merrill and, potentially, Fenarel. The dwarf noble is solo in the Proving (which is optional) then has Gorim and two others for the expedition and then solo again in exile.


As far as likes, I'm typically out of them to give. Which happens to be the case right now.

[andy6915]

I did like playing an archer for my DE though.  And I know that can go either way, but mine was an archer rogue.

 

Well you don't NEED to be a rogue for that. It's probably not optimal, but warriors could be archers in DAO. That used to be one of the main things about warriors in DAO, that they had access to every single weapon type like how soldier Shepard had access to every gun type in ME1&ME2. But yeah, you could be an archer Dalish with either class. Which is why Dalish hunters can be both classes, both are able to use bows and so both are capable of hunting game in the woods.

 

I really hope Bioware finally brings back dual wield rarriors and archers next game. Maybe differentiate them by having the DW warriors use dual longswords instead of daggers and have their animations and talents be more focused on brute force and power and long reach that is able to hit multiple opponents at once in contrast to rogues DW which is much faster and more damaging to single opponents, and maybe make archer warriors be crossbow users and give some of Bianca's old talents to them.

[andy6915]

One other note. Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it doesn't get learned, taught or practiced. Historically, just about every trade was banned for one group or another. That didn't stop them from doing it. Just look up millers in medieval England. Also the history of Jewish fighters during the same period.

The city elf has one team mate. The Cousland has as many as three, plus some non-teamed side kicks. The mage goes solo through the Fade, acquires mouse then gets two, a rogue and another mage for the basement. The dwarf commoner goes solo in the Proving and get Leske for the breakout. The Dalish get Tamlen, then Merrill and, potentially, Fenarel. The dwarf noble is solo in the Proving (which is optional) then has Gorim and two others for the expedition and then solo again in exile.


As far as likes, I'm typically out of them to give. Which happens to be the case right now.

 

True, to the first point.

 

True again here. This was one of the points I tried to make, city elf and casteless are both all the more impressive when you consider that they really didn't have as much help as the rest (except again, dwarf noble) did yet still did so well. Cousland fights 48 people in the origin while CE only fights 27 people, but the Cousland had a heck of a lot more help doing it.

 

I've only ran out of likes once on here. I'm very conservative with them for some reason, I only use them sparingly. I have to really like a post to make me give an actual like-click. Which does mean me liking a post is more significant than it is for most people.

 

 

By the way, I have a weird... Thing I do. I make sure only my warden gets ALL THE kills in their origin stories, to make them seem more impressive. This usually means telling my ally to hold position while I run off on my own, or I control other party members to let them help but make sure to pull away before the last hit so no killing blows are made by them. So those 30 enemies for city elf and 48 for human noble? My warden gets every last kill. Really annoying for the Cousland, since the part in the main hall with Gilmore running around is really difficult to get all the kills because Gilmore is actually decent and can actually easily kill enemies instead of you. And you can't control him. I typically just attack whatever he's attacking and hope I get the final hit on all of them. I've had to reload a dozen times before on that part, depending on my luck .

 

And the dwarven noble part where you have a full 4 person party? That's not fun to do that with. I typically have to remove everyone's weapons and leave them barehanded, and then drop the difficulty to casual because the game stacks too much against you to handle for that area on normal and above when your party is stuck punching everything to death. I normally don't touch casual, but there? I kinda have to if I'm going to make sure all the kills are mine.

[sylvanaerie]

Meh, I just swing at anything that moves.  I don't think enough about 'killing blows'.  The only thing I try my damndest to do is saving as many guards as I can in the HN origin.  In my head I like to imagine they get away or help others escape (even though I know they all die).

[Junebug]

I don't know. They're all good in combat and have different abilities that qualify them. I mean, even criminals with petty thefts can be recruited as Grey Wardens. Plus, I'm one of those people who really enjoy that kind of narrative—an inexperienced character's call to action and learning to master their abilities.

[sylvanaerie]

I've played that scene just about every which way.

What I come back to is an elf who is waiting for an opportunity and is becoming increasingly desperate. Then Soris shows with a sword.

My city elves tend to be opportunistic. My very first city elf was a revenge crazed rage weasel. She didn't let Soris play along much.

 

LMAO OMG this made me spew lemonade all over my computer desk...

[andy6915]

Meh, I just swing at anything that moves.  I don't think enough about 'killing blows'.  The only thing I try my damndest to do is saving as many guards as I can in the HN origin.  In my head I like to imagine they get away or help others escape (even though I know they all die).

 

I do make a big deal of them. It's like a competition for me. If I feel like I am not getting enough kills in a given battle, I reload... Not that I'm super petty, I need to be really lagging behind on kill count in a given dungeon or battle for me to go that far. And I never let any party member fall behind too much either, everyone is to have at least 100 kills by the final Denerim battle. And I always like to see how many kills each recruit (or grey warden in Alistair's case) get during the wilds part when you need to get the blood vials and find the ruin. I always win of course, Alistair always gets second, but it's always fun to see who got more between Jory and Daveth and by just how much I beat them all by. I usually have about twice the kills than whoever got last place and usually about 30% more than Alistair. My numbers are always accurate, I always do a check when first entering the wilds to check my count before killing anything there so I'm not inflating my score with the kills obtained during the origin. The most disproportionate it ever got was last playthrough, where Zevran had like 350 kills while the second place person only had about 250. He's a dual wield rogue assassin who I build to be damage-per-second monster, so he rivals and even exceeds my own kill rate when in the party. Every time I brought him somewhere barely anyone would get any kills in between the 2 of us.

 

Wow, that paragraph makes me sound obsessed .

[springacres]

I don't know that worthiness really factors into this, for me.   All the origins are to some extent outcasts - DC is a criminal, DN may or may not be one, CE is seen as one because of what he or she did, Dalish are analogous to nomadic peoples like the Romani of central Europe or the Lapps of Scandinavia, mages are exiles within their own countries... the only one who really qualifies as worthy, if joining the Wardens is supposed to be an honor, is the HN.

 

If we're talking worthiness in terms of combat experience, however, that makes things quite a bit more even.  The HN would likely have had some experience in mock battles and tournaments.  The Dalish are nomadic hunters who know how to defend themselves at need.  DC and CE would both have experience with street fights and improvised weapons.  The DN is enough of a fighter to be given his/her own command.  Mages are the least experienced in combat, but even they are given training in combat spells and defense.

 

Because each origin has its strengths and weaknesses, and because so much is dependent upon headcanon, I find it hard to rank them numerically.

[Malfrun]

And then their's Daveth who pick pocketed Duncan but couldn't outrun him, GO KILL DARKSPAWN! 

[Dabrikishaw]

All of them are worthy. That's the point.

[dragonflight288]

For me, I find all the Origins worthy of joining the wardens, but I think there are a lot of angles we can look at.

 

So, limiting it strictly to before they are recruited by Duncan, I will discuss each origin.

 

The Dalish: one of the groups who's religious beliefs are one of the most fascinating, especially after Inquisition, this is also one of my least favorite origins. It's short being a large reason for that.

 

But the dalish has his valleslin and passed into adulthood. I know that this was disparaged on the first page, "yay, he's an adult, so what?" but I think that actually overlooks a major part of it. The Valleslin is an extremely painful process. It's how you show you are an adult, but even in the process of receiving it, if you wince or react to the pain, it will be called off as you will be seen as not yet worthy of adulthood. Meaning that the Dalish already has a very high pain tolerance. The Dalish is also a highly skilled hunter, and is very reliable, if only to keep the members of the clan alive, either from natural threats or human ones. Then the Dalish gets tainted and, yes, survives due in no small part to Merethari, but has already shown a strong resistance to the taint, thus out of all the Origins, is the one that actually has the highest chance of surviving the Joining out of all the possible Wardens. Add in some experience fighting darkspawn in the forest, as well as tainted creatures, that adds points into the equation.

 

Survivability, reliability, hunting and combat skills matched with actual experience against the darkspawn makes the Dalish a worthy Grey Warden recruit. On a level of 1-10, with 1 being the overweight greedy town idiot who can't fight (Lloyd) and 10 being the most awesome recruit in every aspect, I would say that the Dalish is a 7.

 

 

City Elf: A looked down upon, second-class citizen. Living in an area where wielding weapons is illegal and secretly training with their mother, the city elf is probably the only origin that has absolutely no combat experience whatsoever until after the wedding. It's my third favorite origin.

 

Yet Duncan came to the alienage to look into recruiting us, and that is actually why the Hahren sped up proceedings for the wedding. From what I gathered, he didn't want to give up anyone to the Wardens so he sped up plans for the arranged marriage that were already in place to keep Duncan from getting a recruit. 

 

That means Duncan knew about our training. But after Vaughn and his friend kidnap all the women, the city elf fights through the keep and kills Vaughn with some borrowed weapons, unless the player is a jerk and takes his bribe to leave. No combat experience makes this feat a lot more impressive. But from when I last played the origin, the impression I got was that the guards were taken off guard and they weren't the best trained or Denerim's finest at all. Vaughn's father, Bann Kendalls, had gone to Ostagar and had taken most of his men, and Vaughn is in the same situation as Cousland as, left in charge of the keep with only a handful of men. Still, taking down armed and armored soldiers and a few nobles who have training is no mean feat. 

 

It's a great underdog story that really tugs at the heart strings. Add in Duncan coming to look at you as a possible recruit through knowing your mother and her skill, the ability to fight through a keep and some overconfident nobles just screams raw potential.

 

For fighting ability and raw potential, I'd give the city elf an 8. But the lack of education and lack of overall combat experience drops it down. Overall, the city elf is a 7.5.

 

 

Human Noble: Well trained, some combat experience in tournaments, the best education that money can buy and the potential for a lot of connections. Responsible enough to be trusted with running an entire teynir while the father and brother are away. 

 

The human noble is a really good pick. Skilled in combat, already seen as a person of great worth simply by having a mabari loyal to him/her, dependable and raised to be responsible and dutiful. Fighting their way through an invading force while keeping his mother alive, possibly rescuing servants, the human noble is one of the best of the best Ferelden has to offer in sheer talent. 

 

Because of their training, education and possible connections, the human noble as a recruit is a solid 9.

 

 

Mage: One of the best the Circle has to offer, the mage is the star pupil of First Enchanter Irving. May be highly skilled in any of the schools of magic if the player wants to specialize, or more rounded out if you want some spells from each two or three schools. Highly versatile in their ability to use magic, add in the rarity of mages in conjunction with everyone else, as well as the fact that there are only 7 mages currently fighting at Ostagar and none of them are wardens, the mage has a lot to offer. The mage, also by virtue of living in the tower, possibly has the best education among all the origins.

 

But the mage, like all other mages, is socially limited. Cut off from the outside world, the only experience he/she would have is helping Jowan escape by fighting a few sentinels and deepstalkers, and possibly some spiders. Deliberately denied going outside, even for exercise thanks to Anders escaping once, the mage will also be woefully out of shape. 

 

One of my favorite classes to play, I think the mage is actually one of the weaker ones, in terms of what they can offer to the wardens initially but also has one of the highest levels of potential compared to the others, with the city elf probably being the only one that surpasses them. The mage is a 6.5, 7 tops, at the time of being recruited, but a potential 9 depending on the mages education, say combat tactics or the ability to make medicine through herbalism or something like that. 

 

 

Dwarven Commoner: A casteless who legally does not exist in Orzammar. Forced to work as part of the Carta as an enforcer, this rough and tough warden recruit probably is the most practical of all the origins, and is less likely to see things in rose colored lenses than anyone else, like Alistair sees the Wardens. 

 

No formal training, but already one of the toughest people in Orzammar due to them fighting in the proving against the best of the warrior caste and winning, then fighting through a hideout of other violent criminals and killing his former boss, the sky is the limit for the casteless. 

 

No education whatsoever, it's probably a miracle he/she can even read, and if they can it would be because Rica taught them as she learned from Beraht on how to be a good noble hunter. Even though this origin never fights darkspawn, I actually think the dwarven commoner can have darkspawn fighting experience, especially if they did an odd job in the deep roads like Bodahn occasionally hired casteless to do, or catching nugs like that one casteless. 

 

Sheer combat ability makes the casteless stand out. Add in a resistance to magic because of the fact that they'r dwarven and emissaries have a harder time just for that. For combat ability and experience, 9. But again, like the city elf, due to lack of education, connections or leadership skills, the casteless drops a bit. I consider a casteless a solid 8.

 

 

Dwarven Noble: As has been discussed a lot, this origin has it all. The education, combat training, combat experience and even leadership experience. The dwarven noble is being made a commander of Orzammar's army, and is even rumored to be a stronger candidate to the throne than the current heir-apparent Trian. Popular with the people, nobles and commoners alike, we know that the dwarven noble can be charismatic. 

 

This origin also has the most experience with darkspawn. They simply excel at everything. 10.

[dragonflight288]

And then their's Daveth who pick pocketed Duncan but couldn't outrun him, GO KILL DARKSPAWN! 

 

Daveth: Not sure why Duncan wants someone like me, but he says finesse is important and that I'm fast with a blade. Heh, you bet your boots that I am.

 

I'm willing to beat that there was some scrapping going on when the guards caught him and Duncan observed his combat skills. 

[andy6915]

For me, I find all the Origins worthy of joining the wardens, but I think there are a lot of angles we can look at.

 

So, limiting it strictly to before they are recruited by Duncan, I will discuss each origin.

 

The Dalish: one of the groups who's religious beliefs are one of the most fascinating, especially after Inquisition, this is also one of my least favorite origins. It's short being a large reason for that.

 

But the dalish has his valleslin and passed into adulthood. I know that this was disparaged on the first page, "yay, he's an adult, so what?" but I think that actually overlooks a major part of it. The Valleslin is an extremely painful process. It's how you show you are an adult, but even in the process of receiving it, if you wince or react to the pain, it will be called off as you will be seen as not yet worthy of adulthood. Meaning that the Dalish already has a very high pain tolerance. The Dalish is also a highly skilled hunter, and is very reliable, if only to keep the members of the clan alive, either from natural threats or human ones. Then the Dalish gets tainted and, yes, survives due in no small part to Merethari, but has already shown a strong resistance to the taint, thus out of all the Origins, is the one that actually has the highest chance of surviving the Joining out of all the possible Wardens. Add in some experience fighting darkspawn in the forest, as well as tainted creatures, that adds points into the equation.

 

Survivability, reliability, hunting and combat skills matched with actual experience against the darkspawn makes the Dalish a worthy Grey Warden recruit. On a level of 1-10, with 1 being the overweight greedy town idiot who can't fight (Lloyd) and 10 being the most awesome recruit in every aspect, I would say that the Dalish is a 7.

 

 

City Elf: A looked down upon, second-class citizen. Living in an area where wielding weapons is illegal and secretly training with their mother, the city elf is probably the only origin that has absolutely no combat experience whatsoever until after the wedding. It's my third favorite origin.

 

Yet Duncan came to the alienage to look into recruiting us, and that is actually why the Hahren sped up proceedings for the wedding. From what I gathered, he didn't want to give up anyone to the Wardens so he sped up plans for the arranged marriage that were already in place to keep Duncan from getting a recruit. 

 

That means Duncan knew about our training. But after Vaughn and his friend kidnap all the women, the city elf fights through the keep and kills Vaughn with some borrowed weapons, unless the player is a jerk and takes his bribe to leave. No combat experience makes this feat a lot more impressive. But from when I last played the origin, the impression I got was that the guards were taken off guard and they weren't the best trained or Denerim's finest at all. Vaughn's father, Bann Kendalls, had gone to Ostagar and had taken most of his men, and Vaughn is in the same situation as Cousland as, left in charge of the keep with only a handful of men. Still, taking down armed and armored soldiers and a few nobles who have training is no mean feat. 

 

It's a great underdog story that really tugs at the heart strings. Add in Duncan coming to look at you as a possible recruit through knowing your mother and her skill, the ability to fight through a keep and some overconfident nobles just screams raw potential.

 

For fighting ability and raw potential, I'd give the city elf an 8. But the lack of education and lack of overall combat experience drops it down. Overall, the city elf is a 7.5.

 

 

Human Noble: Well trained, some combat experience in tournaments, the best education that money can buy and the potential for a lot of connections. Responsible enough to be trusted with running an entire teynir while the father and brother are away. 

 

The human noble is a really good pick. Skilled in combat, already seen as a person of great worth simply by having a mabari loyal to him/her, dependable and raised to be responsible and dutiful. Fighting their way through an invading force while keeping his mother alive, possibly rescuing servants, the human noble is one of the best of the best Ferelden has to offer in sheer talent. 

 

Because of their training, education and possible connections, the human noble as a recruit is a solid 9.

 

 

Mage: One of the best the Circle has to offer, the mage is the star pupil of First Enchanter Irving. May be highly skilled in any of the schools of magic if the player wants to specialize, or more rounded out if you want some spells from each two or three schools. Highly versatile in their ability to use magic, add in the rarity of mages in conjunction with everyone else, as well as the fact that there are only 7 mages currently fighting at Ostagar and none of them are wardens, the mage has a lot to offer. The mage, also by virtue of living in the tower, possibly has the best education among all the origins.

 

But the mage, like all other mages, is socially limited. Cut off from the outside world, the only experience he/she would have is helping Jowan escape by fighting a few sentinels and deepstalkers, and possibly some spiders. Deliberately denied going outside, even for exercise thanks to Anders escaping once, the mage will also be woefully out of shape. 

 

One of my favorite classes to play, I think the mage is actually one of the weaker ones, in terms of what they can offer to the wardens initially but also has one of the highest levels of potential compared to the others, with the city elf probably being the only one that surpasses them. The mage is a 6.5, 7 tops, at the time of being recruited, but a potential 9 depending on the mages education, say combat tactics or the ability to make medicine through herbalism or something like that. 

 

 

Dwarven Commoner: A casteless who legally does not exist in Orzammar. Forced to work as part of the Carta as an enforcer, this rough and tough warden recruit probably is the most practical of all the origins, and is less likely to see things in rose colored lenses than anyone else, like Alistair sees the Wardens. 

 

No formal training, but already one of the toughest people in Orzammar due to them fighting in the proving against the best of the warrior caste and winning, then fighting through a hideout of other violent criminals and killing his former boss, the sky is the limit for the casteless. 

 

No education whatsoever, it's probably a miracle he/she can even read, and if they can it would be because Rica taught them as she learned from Beraht on how to be a good noble hunter. Even though this origin never fights darkspawn, I actually think the dwarven commoner can have darkspawn fighting experience, especially if they did an odd job in the deep roads like Bodahn occasionally hired casteless to do, or catching nugs like that one casteless. 

 

Sheer combat ability makes the casteless stand out. Add in a resistance to magic because of the fact that they'r dwarven and emissaries have a harder time just for that. For combat ability and experience, 9. But again, like the city elf, due to lack of education, connections or leadership skills, the casteless drops a bit. I consider a casteless a solid 8.

 

 

Dwarven Noble: As has been discussed a lot, this origin has it all. The education, combat training, combat experience and even leadership experience. The dwarven noble is being made a commander of Orzammar's army, and is even rumored to be a stronger candidate to the throne than the current heir-apparent Trian. Popular with the people, nobles and commoners alike, we know that the dwarven noble can be charismatic. 

 

This origin also has the most experience with darkspawn. They simply excel at everything. 10.

 

Wow, great post. Not to say I disliked most of the posts up until now, but this is what I wanted. A very big post rivaling my own starting post, with a lot of obvious thought behind it with good reasons behind all the scores.

 

Anyway, minor disagreement here and there aside, I can't really find major fault here.

 

I do think Dalish is still too high, but you convinced me to a 6. I started them at 4, later to a 5 after reading a good case for them, and now you've talked me up to a 6 for their score. Well done . Still not as high as yours, but you've made me concede that I scored them too low.

 

Wish you'd kept the city elf at an 8, as it's a score I would agree with. However your reason for dropping .5 off their score has sound logic behind it, so I can't really fault it.

 

I think the human noble scored too high. That would make them just under the dwarven noble, which I don't think is the case. They've got a lot of the same advantages thanks to being a well educated noble who also grew up in a warrior's household just like the dwarven one, but they have no where near the same actual combat experience or experience with leading. I would argue, with your own argument in mind, that they would be better off with an 8.5 as a more accurate score to reflect the gap between them and the dwarven noble.

 

Mage is a 7.5 to a 9? That's a big variation. I guess my mage Warden's would be a 9 then, since I play my own mages to be very well learned. How couldn't they be when they're in a boring tower that they can never leave with no entertainment around except for a GIGANTIC library? A setting like that can only lead to smarts... Okay, usually. Somehow someone as dumb as Jowan came from the same setting and circle . I think the 7.5 would be more accurate though, despite their education level.

 

I'm seeing a pattern here. I keep agreeing with your initial score, the one you give before adding or removing points based on education level. I guess I don't see it as significant as you when it comes to putting swords through heads? Because I, as you saw, think the 9 you would have given would be more accurate.

 

dwarven noble, do I even need to say anything? We're in perfect agreement.

 

 

Anyway, definitely liked this post even if I had a few tiny disagreements.

[dragonflight288]

 

Mage is a 7.5 to a 9? That's a big variation. I guess my mage Warden's would be a 9 then, since I play my own mages to be very well learned. How couldn't they be when they're in a boring tower that they can never leave with no entertainment around except for a GIGANTIC library? A setting like that can only lead to smarts... Okay, usually. Somehow someone as dumb as Jowan came from the same setting and circle  . I think the 7.5 would be more accurate though, despite their education level.

 

 

Okay, you've got a point.

 

I suppose the large deviation comes in on the potential usefulness of mages, and a mage who knows more about fighting, augmenting allies, healing or fighting, and if the mage happens to be in shape, the flat-out potential of magic itself is the real determiner. 

 

For example, a mage who specializes only in the primal school of magic is capable of dealing out awe-inspiring feats of destruction on enemy lines. While a mage who specializes in the school of spirit is considerably less useful as a powerhouse, but with animating the dead, utilizing forcefields to trap stronger enemies while we take out weaker ones, enhancing weapons to ignore armor, stunning and just the ability to absolutely disrupt and destroy enemy magics makes for a fair bit of creative versatility.

 

7.5 is the tops a mage can be at the time of recruitment, but the potential to become a 9 is there. 

 

I hope that clarifies things. 

[MisterJB]

Do not forget that DN's origin is actually the very first command s/he is given.

[sylvanaerie]

Do not forget that DN's origin is actually the very first command s/he is given.

 

Aye but the same is true of the Human Noble as well.  Don't get me wrong, both do well in my estimation for this category, but IMO the DN stacks up higher by virtue of what his training entailed.  The human noble has learned how to lead men in conflict against other men.  The DN's training leans toward leading troops against darkspawn, learning the habits and tactics of an enemy who doesn't think like humans or dwarves.  Since grey wardens are all about battling darkspawn, that puts the DN a leg up on the other origins by virtue of his/her experience with the enemy she will be spending the rest of her life fighting.

[andy6915]

Do not forget that DN's origin is actually the very first command s/he is given.

 

Wrong. General is a very high rank, and not the only kind of command one is given. They've definitely led smaller companies before, it's just now they're given command of an entire subsect of the dwarven military instead of just leading smaller unites. To guess, they've probably led groups up to at least a dozen before.

[dragonflight288]

Do not forget that DN's origin is actually the very first command s/he is given.

 

But has served as his/her father's second.

 

The commission as Orzammar's Commander is their very first command at being the one in charge, compared to say, being a lieutenant But that still means that the DN gave orders, much like how Gorim acts for the DN to the others.

 

Bhelen: I'll be taking your place as father's second, so I'll be close at hand.

[andy6915]

Aye but the same is true of the Human Noble as well.  Don't get me wrong, both do well in my estimation for this category, but IMO the DN stacks up higher by virtue of what his training entailed.  The human noble has learned how to lead men in conflict against other men.  The DN's training leans toward leading troops against darkspawn, learning the habits and tactics of an enemy who doesn't think like humans or dwarves.  Since grey wardens are all about battling darkspawn, that puts the DN a leg up on the other origins by virtue of his/her experience with the enemy she will be spending the rest of her life fighting.

 

Speaking of the dwarven nobles experience, you know what is really fun? You can actually roleplay to be very experienced, using all the knowledge you already have about darkspawn and pretending your character already knows it too. For example, this guy from Ostagar talking to a crowd of soldiers? Now pretend the stuff in parenthesis is my dwarven noble's internal thoughts.

 

“I want this nonsense talk stopped immediately. What are you? A bunch of nattering fishwives, spreading gossip until you brown your smallclothes out of terror? We’ve seen nothing to suggest that the darkspawn drag our people underground to eat them (They do.), and I want this talk about darkspawn enslaving survivors to stop immediately (They do. Well, the women anyway. If that happens, it will be a women who eats you instead of the darkspawn.). You fight for Ferelden and your king. Remember that (these idiotic humans have no sodding clue what they're up against, do they?).”

 

 

Other origins are all pretty ignorant about them, but a dwarven noble already knows it all. You can have extra roleplay options thanks to that.

[dragonflight288]

Speaking of the dwarven nobles experience, you know what is really fun? You can actually roleplay to be very experienced, using all the knowledge you already have about darkspawn and pretending your character already knows it too. For example, this guy from Ostagar talking to a crowd of soldiers? Now pretend the stuff in parenthesis is my dwarven noble's internal thoughts.

 

“I want this nonsense talk stopped immediately. What are you? A bunch of nattering fishwives, spreading gossip until you brown your smallclothes out of terror? We’ve seen nothing to suggest that the darkspawn drag our people underground to eat them (They do.), and I want this talk about darkspawn enslaving survivors to stop immediately (They do. Well, the women anyway. If that happens, it will be a women who eats you instead of the darkspawn.). You fight for Ferelden and your king. Remember that (these idiotic humans have no sodding clue what they're up against, do they?).”

 

 

Other origins are all pretty ignorant about them, but a dwarven noble already knows it all. You can have extra roleplay options thanks to that.

 

I think the devs pointed out that the dwarves and wardens knew about the existence of broodmothers, but thanks to Helmi while searching for Branka, the Warden is the very first to discover where broodmothers come from. 

 

Taking this into account, the dwarven noble actually wouldn't know that women become broodmothers, at least not yet. 

 

EDIT: There's one bit of dialogue at Ostagar I love to hear while playing as a DN because of the roleplay it brings. 

 

Soldier: Where are they all coming from? (referring to the darkspawn.

 

DN: You sodding idiot. They are coming from the Deep Roads, where we've been fighting them, and slowly getting pushed back for the last 400 years. You have no idea what's coming. Your blight is our everyday. By the stone, we may actually take back some lost thaigs now while they focus up here.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 20 avril 2015 - 03:25 .

[sylvanaerie]

Wrong. General is a very high rank, and not the only kind of command one is given. They've definitely led smaller companies before, it's just now they're given command of an entire subsect of the dwarven military instead of just leading smaller unites. To guess, they've probably led groups up to at least a dozen before.

 

 

But has served as his/her father's second.

 

The commission as Orzammar's Commander is their very first command at being the one in charge, compared to say, being a lieutenant But that still means that the DN gave orders, much like how Gorim acts for the DN to the others.

 

Bhelen: I'll be taking your place as father's second, so I'll be close at hand.

 

I actually got the impression from the dialogues it is, indeed, the DN's actual first time out leading men and kind of a 'nepotism' thing going on, her getting the command by virtue of she's the princess of Orzammar, since Trian? remarks she will probably get the men all killed.  Kind of seems a stupid thing to say if she's already been leading men in the field, and proven her skills first hand.  Of course, he's full of it and seems to delight in needling the PC, but I still feel that the DN is quite new at actually having this much responsibility.  While i don't feel Endrin would be so foolish as to put a completely green warrior in charge, and she has been trained well for her position, she is still young and isn't as experienced in hands on leadership.

 

And it's still vs darkspawn, putting her a step ahead of the other origins, even the HN in my estimation.

 

Apologies for the excess use of the feminine pronoun, my DN was female (I love the Gorim flirtation) and for me the DN will always be female.

[andy6915]

I actually got the impression from the dialogues it is, indeed, the DN's actual first time out leading men and kind of a 'nepotism' thing going on, her getting the command by virtue of she's the princess of Orzammar, since Trian? remarks she will probably get the men all killed.  Kind of seems a stupid thing to say if she's already been leading men in the field, and proven her skills first hand.  Of course, he's full of it and seems to delight in needling the PC, but I still feel that the DN is quite new at actually having this much responsibility.  While i don't feel Endrin would be so foolish as to put a completely green warrior in charge, and she has been trained well for her position, she is still young and isn't as experienced in hands on leadership.
 
And it's still vs darkspawn, putting her a step ahead of the other origins, even the HN in my estimation.
 
Apologies for the excess use of the feminine pronoun, my DN was female (I love the Gorim flirtation) and for me the DN will always be female.

 
I disagree, for good reason. Nobody goes from grunt to general. No one. You have to go up the ranks. This is not fully relevant since it's United States army ranks, but it does prove my point. Look how many ranks there are before general.
 
http://www.militaryf.../army_ranks.asp
 
Second Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel     Captain
Brigadier General
Major General
Lieutenant General
General

 

Even if the dwarven army is a little different, general is definitely a very high rank just like in the US army. And damn near every single thing on that list is considered a leader, someone expected to have people under their command. A commanding officer can be just about all those ranks listed. It's pretty much impossible to jump from a non-command rank to general instantly. So they have to had command experience sooner than the start of the origin, as a commanding officer if nothing else.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.goarmy.co...d-insignia.html

 

According to this, ranks as early as Sargent are expected to lead units of up to 10 soldiers. That rank is over 20 ranks lower than general. And you expect me to believe the dwarf noble has never led any soldiers before? Even if dwarven ranking is different, it can't be THAT different.

[sylvanaerie]

I actually got the impression from the dialogues it is, indeed, the DN's actual first time out leading men and kind of a 'nepotism' thing going on, her getting the command by virtue of she's the princess of Orzammar, since Trian? remarks she will probably get the men all killed.  Kind of seems a stupid thing to say if she's already been leading men in the field, and proven her skills first hand.  Of course, he's full of it and seems to delight in needling the PC, but I still feel that the DN is quite new at actually having this much responsibility.  While i don't feel Endrin would be so foolish as to put a completely green warrior in charge, and she has been trained well for her position, she is still young and isn't as experienced in hands on leadership.

 

And it's still vs darkspawn, putting her a step ahead of the other origins, even the HN in my estimation.

 

Apologies for the excess use of the feminine pronoun, my DN was female (I love the Gorim flirtation) and for me the DN will always be female.

 

 

 
I disagree, for good reason. Nobody goes from grunt to general. No one. You have to go up the ranks. This is not fully relevant since it's United States army ranks, but it does prove my point. Look how many ranks there are before general.
 
http://www.militaryf.../army_ranks.asp
 
Second Lieutenant
First Lieutenant
Captain
Major
Lieutenant Colonel
Colonel     Captain
Brigadier General
Major General
Lieutenant General
General

 

Even if the dwarven army is a little different, general is definitely a very high rank just like in the US army. And damn near every single thing on that list is considered a leader, someone expected to have people under their command. A commanding officer can be just about all those ranks listed. It's pretty much impossible to jump from a non-command rank to general instantly. So they have to had command experience sooner than the start of the origin, as a commanding officer if nothing else.

 

EDIT:

 

http://www.goarmy.co...d-insignia.html

 

According to this, ranks as early as Sargent are expected to lead units of up to 10 soldiers. That rank is over 20 ranks lower than general. And you expect me to believe the dwarf noble has never led any soldiers before? Even if dwarven ranking is different, it can't be THAT different.

 

Quoted myself with an emphasis on my point.  

 

While I don't think she has zero experience leading men, I think "General" is too lofty an estimation of her actual ranking.  The DN has indeed some experience dealing with darkspawn in the capacity as second to Endrin.  Perhaps in army terms a "Captain" or I'd even go with "Major" would be closer to their promotion ranking.  While yes, some nepotism could be the reasons for a captain to be in that position, I agree, a general certainly wouldn't.

 

But I doubt a "general" would be leading a team of 3 other men (the DN's assignment during the mission).  She would be leading a full on company of 20 or more (not sure how many men are in dwarven platoons, but I'm certain a general would be leading more than just a handful).  In this I think the actual ranking the DN has is akin to an army captain.

 

Also in terms of overall game balance, i think a general would have a significant more amount of starting experience (like the DN doesn't start the game at level 10) over the other origins, making me think that the actual rank is lower than you're estimating it to be.