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[congokong]

Don't get me wrong; I love the Cullen romance with a mage Inquisitor. It's just I have to picture a mage being extremely forgiving and/or ignorant of Cullen's past to rationalize it.

 

Cullen wasn't just a templar; he was second-in-command to Knight Commander Meredith: a tyrannical leader of the most oppressed Circle of Magi. While it's suggested Cullen didn't take part in the truly evil decisions, he had to be aware of their occurrence/reasons even if after the fact. Ex: Maddox being made tranquil over smuggling out love letters. This presumably happened before DA2's Act 1 since Samson was on the streets by then; also verified by how when Hawke first meets Anders he mentions how "mages are made tranquil for the slightest crimes."

 

Even if in Cullen's defense he was suffering severe PTSD right after the blight, he remains with Meredith enforcing her will for roughly six more years until Act 3's conclusion; defending Meredith against people like Thrask who suggest she's mad. And in that time more cases like Maddox continue to occur. Yet he only waivers from his duty when Meredith is about to attempt to slay Hawke after already ordering the purging of the Circle.

 

In conclusion, Cullen is at the very least indirectly responsible for much harm to mages. It makes my Inquisitor feel like Carmella turning a blind eye to Tony Soprano's sins.

[drummerchick]

The vagina  heart wants what it wants. 

[Siha]

Cullen repeats a few times how he is not proud of the man he used to be, that he made mistakes, and his efforts for the Inquisition are also an attempt at atonement. So in the end, if a mage romances him or not depends on how willing she is to forgive and give second chances.

 

DAI hardly addresses his past or, rather, his development in between. They wipe it away with a few words in static conversations, not even a cutscene to show some emotions, so it's really hard to judge him in his current incarnation.

[jgwhiteus]

I haven't done Cullen's romance, but in conversations doesn't he say something along the lines of having his view of mages change over time, and acknowledging he made mistakes and was blinded to the evils before him in Kirkwall, partially due to his lingering resentment and anger towards the torture he faced in Ferelden's Circle?

 

I mean, not that admitting you were wrong should give you an automatic pass to forgiveness, but it's better than him being completely unrepentant, and you could say he's trying to "make up for it" in various ways with his service to the Inquisition. Ultimately a mage Inquisitor is choosing to be in a relationship with the man he is today, not the man he was a few years ago. It's kind of like being in a relationship with Blackwall - the guy's obviously done horrible, heinous things for which there's no excuse or justification, but he's on a path to redemption, and it's up to your Inquisitor to decide if that's "good enough" to be with him in the present.

[congokong]

 

I haven't done Cullen's romance, but in conversations doesn't he say something along the lines of having his view of mages change over time, and acknowledging he made mistakes and was blinded to the evils before him in Kirkwall, partially due to his lingering resentment and anger towards the torture he faced in Ferelden's Circle?

 

The fact that Cullen is not the man he was is why I had a mage romance him. Before DA:I's release when I heard he was romanceable I thought, "Yeah right. I always play a mage. There's no way she'd go for that uptight, anti-mage templar." The question is if a mage should want to be with someone who's done so much harm to mages in the past. It just seems very forgiving/ignorant.

 

 

I mean,  It's kind of like being in a relationship with Blackwall - the guy's obviously done horrible, heinous things for which there's no excuse or justification, but he's on a path to redemption, and it's up to your Inquisitor to decide if that's "good enough" to be with him in the present.

lol Blackwall is at the bottom of Dragon Age companions I'd ever romance. Him being "a dirty mercenary with a history of deception" as Viviene puts it only makes the idea of romancing him even more unlikely.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

I actually think the real question is, should Cullen want to romance a Mage?

Either way, people can change and pasts can be forgiven.

[congokong]

I actually think the real question is, should Cullen want to romance a Mage?

The actions of the mages who tortured him cannot fairly be applied to all mages. However, Cullen's harmful actions against mages can fairly be applied to Cullen.

[Abelas Forever!]

The mage inquisitor could think that those mages deserved their fate. If I remember correctly those mages break the rules of the circle. Of course the punishent was harsh but if the mage inquisitor believes that mages are dangerous it's possible that she also think that it was justified to give them that punishment.

[LightningPoodle]

Well, Cullen was always a good Templar. Yes, he had that hissyfit in Origins but honestly, who wouldn't after experiencing what he experienced. He, unless I've missed something, has always been good to mages. Never treated them with disrespect. He's just doing his job as best he can. Also, past is the past.

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

The actions of the mages who tortured him cannot fairly be applied to all mages. However, Cullen's harmful actions against mages can fairly be applied to Cullen.

Eh, I really can't be bothered with this age old debate so I will just leave it with this.

Empathy. A lot of things can be forgiven and understood if one has the capability to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

[jgwhiteus]

 

The fact that Cullen is not the man he was is why I had a mage romance him. Before DA:I's release when I heard he was romanceable I thought, "Yeah right. I always play a mage. There's no way she'd go for that uptight, anti-mage templar." The question is if a mage should want to be with someone who's done so much harm to mages in the past. It just seems very forgiving/ignorant.

 

Well, the dynamics of mage / templar relationships are always a little... special, no? In a potentially unhealthy or unsettling way. Not to get too much into it, but it seems like questionable judgment to pursue relationships with men and women whose stated purpose is to monitor and possibly kill you should you go off the deep end. And mages in general can have a lot of issues - with having special powers that separate them from society, with growing up in confinement being constantly watched, with possible self-hatred (like that mage Kelly(?) in DA:O who prayed all the time). And I guess they might feel a special connection to templars because they're some of the few people who know exactly what they're going through and understand the lives they lead, and maybe there's something appealing about feeling equally "matched" with someone who's capable of completely neutralizing mages' special abilities with special abilities of their own.

 

Um, that has more to do with mage / templar relations generally, but I feel a mage Inquisitor could possibly be willing to forgive Cullen for his transgressions because she's grown up in a Circle and knows why templars perform their duties, she's met demons in the Fade and knows of blood mages and understands the horrors they can inflict, and honestly she may have a complicated relationship with being a mage herself so that she doesn't automatically condemn Cullen for his mistakes.

[Panda]

There is lot of different kind of mages in Thedas, which is seen in different factions that Circles also have. Some mages could have even agreed with what Cullen did. In other hand I doubt Trevelyan has exact knowledge of happenings in Kirkwall circle and strong bias against Cullen, because of those. She has probaply only heard rumours of what happened.

[Junebug]

Should a mage forgive a templar who was as radical as Cullen was? Probably not. If they didn't make him a character you could romance in DA:I and only left him as is in DA:O/DA2, I'd be less forgiving. As much as I felt sorry for him in DA:O, I loathed him in DA2. He ruined people, was willing to tear apart the livelihood of families, and wanted every mage punished without cause. The templars were incredibly violent and willing to do anything to complete his requests. Cullen might not have done the dirty laundry himself but he gave many orders that had terrible results. He was taught that mages were the true threat and believed it. But somewhere along the line during Meredith's descent into madness, he finally confronted what he knew. That so many things he was taught about mages was wrong. And it took the Conclave's destruction to happen for him to realize it. If I were a mage and I knew the horrors he committed, I'd be afraid of him.

 

I personally believe in second chances (with limits) but I would definitely be cautious at the beginning of our relationship. He's one of my favorite romances because it's interesting to see how much he wants to atone. Honestly, the romances in this game in general are brilliant. I love how much reflection the companions do and how fallible their struggles feel—everyone wants to atone for someone or something. It's really great.

[Siha]

The question is if a mage should want to be with someone who's done so much harm to mages in the past. It just seems very forgiving/ignorant.

 

I personally believe in second chances (with limits) but I would definitely be cautious at the beginning of our relationship. 

 

Both statements refer to metagaming knowledge, right? Because your inquisitor, who did not know Cullen before and never heard of him, cannot know anything about what he did or thought. All she knows is that he was with the Circle in Kirkwall and stood up to Meredith, and that he feels guilty for not having acted sooner but explains this with bad experiences in the Ferelden Circle, which he does not want to speak of. 

So, only from an in-game point of view, how would your mage actually need to reconsider romancing him? 

 

As for metagaming, I am with Boom and Lightning. 

[KaiserShep]

I think Cullen's a pretty righteous dude in the end. The man is basically full of regret and is even willing to risk his well being going cold turkey on lyrium to go down a different path. I don't think the guy can try any harder than he already is, so I don't see why not.

[lil yonce]

I don't give Cullen a pass for DAO or DA2 and I still managed to romance him with a version of my hardcore pro-mage rebel Trevelyan. The main things are that he carries regret and shame for his past attitudes and actions, leaves the templars, atones as the Inquisition's commander, and is willing to form personal relationships with mages. I don't agree with everything he says or does in DAI, and neither does my inquisitor (i.e. his reaction to allying the mages), but I think he's flexible enough now in most of his opinions that they can work it out with more conversation. My inquisitor has the occasional moment wondering "wtf am I doing with this guy?" but it doesn't win out when I commit the romance. With other versions of this inquisitor it can. And, yes, the heart wants what it wants. I wait to start the romance after Perseverance for this reason. Cullen makes a comment about not always having seen him in the best light when you initiate the romance at this time and my inquisitor responds with something like "that's true but I'm still here." And that's it really.

[Jaison1986]

I would say he is easier to romance then an mage Inquisitor romancing Cassandra. Especially considering Cullen chose to cut ties with the Chantry completely, unlike Cassandra who is pretty loyal to them. With an Inquisitor that favours freedom, Cullen views would seem more acceptable.

[Killdren88]

Your mage can do better. A whole lot better.

[Arlee]

I would say he is easier to romance then an mage Inquisitor romancing Cassandra. Especially considering Cullen chose to cut ties with the Chantry completely, unlike Cassandra who is pretty loyal to them. With an Inquisitor that favours freedom, Cullen views would seem more acceptable.

 

Except it was established it wouldn't be the first mage she had been involved with.

[Carmen_Willow]

Some mages are Andrastian. Some mages believe the circle is necessary. Some mages support the Chantry.  Mages don't all come in one flavor any more than Templars come in one flavor.

 

To my knowledge, Cullen personally always acted within the boundaries of his order and his vows as a Templar. He did not abuse mages, nor did he take advantage of the tranquil. Yeah, he went a little crazy after being tortured in Origins but ask any combat soldier who's been put under that kind of stress what it does to their head. Should he have stood up sooner in DA:2? Maybe, but when it counted, he stepped up. I see him as a flawed human being just like the rest of us who tries to do what is right as we see the right but don't always succeed. 

 

So yeah, as a mage, even an "I don't believe in the Circle or the Chantry" mage, I can love him because I see in him the same capacity to stumble, fall and rise again a better person for the bruises.  Walk the road that he walked a few decades and then come back and tell me what he does or doesn't deserve.

[congokong]

It could be argued that as Meredith's second-in-command he failed the mages terribly, and was guilty through association, by not acting against Meredith once learning Maddox was made tranquil for smuggling love letters. Doubtless that wasn't the only atrocity Meredith committed, even if it was technically within her legal power to do it. Instead he stands by and defends her for years onward.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The vagina tingles will want what the vagina tingles want, even that which is worst for it. 

[Junebug]

So, only from an in-game point of view, how would your mage actually need to reconsider romancing him? 

 

As for metagaming, I am with Boom and Lightning. 

In-game point of view, not knowing just how bad his past was, yes it would be easier to forgive. And it makes sense, there isn't much to forgive there if you don't know what he's done. Just a lot of support to give and help him through it.

 

Metagaming, "past is past" is not an excuse for the horrors he committed. However, atoning is and he genuinely wants to make up for his shady past. I am a very strong believer of therapy and rehabilitation for felons, drug addicts, etc in video games (just like real life). Cullen's way of rehabilitating himself through atonement and the support of his companions is a noble and admirable one. I commend him for it. It's the reason why I have two characters who romanced him (made a second because I wanted to be a mage—also I didn't think to save before cutscenes ;~; ).

[QueenCrow]

Ok, I have to be honest here. I will admit that the Cullen/Mage combo is a big turn on for me.

 

I can invent a way that my Dalish mage inquisitor knows about Cullen - they're both coming from the Free Marches, Marethari's clan certainly got wind of Kirkwall dealings with mages,knowledge of who is in charge, who stood up to whom in the end, and it's not unfathomable that Dalish clans in the Free Marches would share information/warnings.  And I do invent a ways in my head for my inquisitor to know these things about him.  it makes him feel more dangerous.  That ethical ambiguity is just my kind of bad boy with a chivalrous streak.

 

The reason that I want my Dalish mage inquisitor to know about Cullen, and romance him anyway, is because I love the nervous feeling with that combo and story arc.  It's like watching a scary movie and peeking between my fingers, exciting.  And like a movie, it's a totally safe ride because it's just a game.

 

Thanks to sexy Cullen the mage-hammer for the thrill.

[Br3admax]

Completely unrelated, Inky is by far the ugliest Inquisitory nickname I have ever seen.