151 réponses à ce sujet

[Reznore57]

The Qun is a perfect example of an indigenous group who aids the needy without an ulterior motive and they don't have an abundance of resources either.

 

As for resources, I think pouring efforts into looking for old relics is incredibly wasteful as opposed to pouring that same effort into doing anything else (gathering goods to aid enslaved elves, craft weapons/goods, anything). The other thing that makes the Dalish clans weak is their separation of one another. Like you said, some of them travel in small villages and that leaves an enormous crack in their cultures. "Divided we fall" type of thing.

 

However, I do feel their prejudice of humans is a little warranted. Humans are still enslaving elves (Tevinter) and mistreating them (throwing them into the worst living conditions). But again, Dalish clans have no right to be self-righteous about the stuff that happens to city elves when they've offered more aid to digging up rocks than helping people.

 

Ermmm....the Qunari are an empire with a big army.They conquered the north of Thedas 300 years ago.

The Dalish are a bunch of nomadic hippies who don't have much ressources.

They barely get by.

They can't have more than 3 mages among them , because if things go sour , they don't have the manpower to overcome a magical attack.And you want them to attack a big city like Kirkwall?

[Sweawm]

The Qun is a perfect example of an indigenous group who aids the needy without an ulterior motive and they don't have an abundance of resources either.

 

Have to call that out so bad. The Qunari wouldn't give you a crumb of bread without demanding conversion first. Secondly, the Qunari are a nation that can easily hold it's ground in an endless war with the Imperium and terrify all of Thedas, so they are hardly as scarce in terms of resources. Considering they have more advanced technology than Thedas, they might just be only second in resources after Orlais.

 

Compare a terrifying and efficient empire to that to the Dalish, a bunch of nomadic wanderer's in unconnected groups only 20-50 strong. Yea, the Qunari can definitely afford some charity, not that they ever give much. 

[Junebug]

They can't have more than 3 mages among them , because if things go sour , they don't have the manpower to overcome a magical attack.And you want them to attack a big city like Kirkwall?

No, just do less digging for books they have to translate and more gathering elfroot to make potions to give to the needy or gather food to help themselves and elves in the alienage. I just want them to be above what they are. I never said anything about attacking anyone. But they can certainly try and I have no doubt the PC would help. But again, there are ways to help civilians without getting physical with the locals.

[Sweawm]

If you are allowed to make stuff up entirely, I am allowed to site "misty lore". 

 

So every civilization in Thedas practices slavery and blood sacrifice? The only other culture that practiced either of those was Elvenhan, the same culture that the Dalish want to bring back.

 

Please be civil, I'm not making anything up. I'm just said the whole Dales thing couldn't be called into debate as it was never confirmed who was telling the truth and which side was just making stuff up. 

 

I wasn't saying that every nation in Thedas is bad as the Imperium, I was just saying they still treat the Dalish like crap and attack them whenever possible. You started this line of argument on the basis that you think the rest of Thedas outside the Imperium harbors no ill will at all towards the Dalish, and the Dalish aren't forced to be nomadic because the local Chantry will dispatch Templars if they stay in any place too long.    

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Please be civil, I'm not making anything up. I'm just said the whole Dales thing couldn't be called into debate as it was never confirmed who was telling the truth and which side was just making stuff up. 

I am being civil. You said that humans were nothing but mean to the elves, which is objectively not true. The elves having a sovereign homeland consisting of some of the most fertile and bountiful land for centuries as a gift from the humans for helping out against Tevinter is the prime example of humans being something other than mean to elves. 

 

I wasn't saying that every nation in Thedas is bad as the Imperium, I was just saying they still treat the Dalish like crap and attack them whenever possible. You started this line of argument on the basis that you think the rest of Thedas outside the Imperium harbors no ill will at all towards the Dalish, and the Dalish aren't forced to be nomadic because the local Chantry will dispatch Templars if they stay in any place too long.    

Except you said "And every civilization in the current Dragon Age setting are still just as bad as the Imperium.". 

 

I never said the rest of Thedas harbors no ill will towards them or aren't forced to be nomadic. A poster asked how the Dalish could help the City Elves, and stopping the cycle of hared by feeding it more fuel is a way they can help.

[Reznore57]

No, just do less digging for books they have to translate and more gathering elfroot to make potions to give to the needy or gather food to help themselves and elves in the alienage. I just want them to be above what they are. I never said anything about attacking anyone. But they can certainly try and I have no doubt the PC would help. But again, there are ways to help civilians without getting physical with the locals.

 

But they don't spend their days looking for artifacts.

A bunch of them are really into it like the Keeper and apprentice (it's like what 5 people) the rest of the clan is busy with mundane tasks all day.Fishing , hunting , securing shelter etc...

The Dalish don't have much.

[Sweawm]

No, just do less digging for books they have to translate and more gathering elfroot to make potions to give to the needy or gather food to help themselves and elves in the alienage. I just want them to be above what they are. I never said anything about attacking anyone. But they can certainly try and I have no doubt the PC would help. But again, there are ways to help civilians without getting physical with the locals.

 

Firstly, would they be allowed in the cities at all? Secondly, I thought earlier the fact was brought up: '"feed a man a fish, he is fed for the day, teach him to fish, and feed him for life?" No matter what help they get, at the end of the day they'll all still be poor and living in slums like they have been for centuries. At the end of the day, they'll continue to be oppressed. The Dalish aren't actually giving into that. 

[Junebug]

The Qunari wouldn't give you a crumb of bread without demanding conversion first.

Saemus Dumar and the city elves they saved would beg to differ (DA2). Not that the Qun is without faults. I wouldn't follow the Qun myself with their authoritarian order.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A bunch of them are really into it like the Keeper and apprentice (it's like what 5 people) 

Always two, there are. A Keeper, and a First. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Saemus Dumar and the city elves they saved would beg to differ (DA2).

Saemus and the elves were Viddathari, converts to the Qun. 

[Junebug]

The Dalish don't have much.

Again, I strongly believe their separation was their downfall *sigh* I don't know. They could accomplish a lot with the help of the PC. My main thing with the Dalish clans is would they help given the resources and aid. Most of clans have a strong disdain for city elves and/or see themselves above them which is my whole shtick with them.

 

Saemus and the elves were Viddathari, converts to the Qun. 

Yes, but they weren't mistreated before converting. Saemus would hang out with Qunari on a regular basis long before he joined. If any of my Human characters tried to do that with Dalish clans, I don't think they'd be quite as open nor welcoming. But then again, that's speculation

[Sweawm]

I really want to crawl back to my main point and that is that the Bioware writer's shafted the Dalish with Inquisition. I have no idea how I got into this long debate of whose in the right. But still, I really hate what Inquisition does, especially since the Dalish Inquisitor most of the time just sits back and lets everyone else say stuff about their culture. Like Dalish abandon their own young (... where the hell did this come from and how does it make sense?) and when they have more than three mages they automatically throw out the excess (despite that most clans in the previous games were so desperate for a First they had to go looking beyond their own clan to find one and the Dalish lore lamenting the fact they'll die out because they are running out of Keepers).

 

It's just so out of place and nonsensical, it makes it look like it was only added in purely to cast them in a horrible light which again, I really would like to know the reason for. 

[Wulfram]

That stuff isn't about damning the Dalish, it's about justifying the Templars. The Dalish having a working system without the excess nastiness of the Circles makes the Mage/Templar debate look rather silly, so they changed the Dalish.

[Shechinah]

(to Hanako Ikezawa) In regards to it being done in the beginning of the Dalish Origin, that was done by two members of the Clan and Marethari, if she learns of it, desapproves of it. I'm inclined to believe she would have punished them had it not been for the misfortune ball rolling over both of them beforehand but that's my interpretation and I do not think we hear of it so all I can say is that from her desapproval the clan does not approve of doing something like that.   

 

I'll also admit I'm intentionally staying out of the dicussion in regards to the past events like the Red Crossing because I do not know enough about it nor can I really keep a hold of the lore about it to participate so I'm mostly sticking to the discussion about the modern Dalish if that makes any sense.  

[Shechinah]

(to Junebug) Saemus, I believe, hung out with a member of the Qunari named Ashaad. He did not visit the compound until he decided to convert if I remember correctly.

 

Hawke, a human, can frequently visit a Dalish encampment even trade with them throughout their years in Kirkwall so Hawke was a case of a human hanging out with a Dalish clan and can be a case of a human hanging out with members of the Dalish culture and religion like Merill.    

[Shechinah]

(to Junebug) The Qun is, in my opinion, not the best comparison to the Dalish in this case because the Qun has an empire(?) and a military with not only advance technology but also of a size enough to make other countries pause even if said countries are united. The Dalish have none of this and should they try to band together to form larger clans, other parties might suspect them of planning something like a taking of a human city or other such trouble and strike it down as a precaution.

 

The Arishok and his men were given a place in the city by the Viscount  called the compound so they were already in the city and were seemingly not stopped should they decide to enter or leave the city such as in the case of Ashaad who were scouting the Coast though he might simply have been sneaking in and out of the city. The point being that the Qunari had the leave of the Viscount. 

 

If possibly, could you also add examples of the Qunari providing assistance to non-converts in Kirkwall? Could you also further clarify what you mean by "not mistreated before converting"?   

[Toasted Llama]

Isn't the Chantry racist as f*ck tho? And aren't humans treating elves like second class citizens as well? Can't say my Dalish was stoked about being treated like a second class citizen at Halamshiral.

So if a city elf decides to flee the cities/look for a better life and joins a Dalish Clan why the hell would they think it's a good idea to keep following a racist, hate mongering religion/culture? Heck, why would you willingly stay in an alienage and not go out to join the Dalish? So really, why not convert to the Dalish completely?

Mind you, this is from a Dalish perspective. The Maker and Andraste might give peace, it's only the Chantry's fault, yadda yadda yadda. Dalish elves don't know that.

I think a major problem with the racism between city elves, Dalish elves and humans has to do with a snowball effect. Someone, somewhere started to be racist, let's say, in defense of the city elves, the Dalish got racist. Although I think it's only a small group of Dalish that started being racist. Anyway, first snowball is thrown across. Humans got racist in return because why wouldn't they? The elves are treating them like ****, not gonna return that with kindness. They throw a snowball back. The Dalish kept being racist because "look, shemlens treat us like sh*t!" They counter the attack of the snowball with one of their own, for the same reasons as the humans and this keeps going back and forth.

Then there's city elves who stay in alienages and get treated like utter sh*t by humans. But they don't leave and join the Dalish either.
Not entirely sure if the elves in the alienages are forced there, but I think to many Dalish it at least seems like they willingly submit themselves to racism. Which.... sounds stupid. Who would willingly submit themselves to racism? Thus the Dalish' attitude of "booo city elves!".

[Dabrikishaw]

For how much I dislike Sera, her opinions on the Dalish aren't something I disagree with her on.

[Shechinah]

(to Dabrikishaw) Sear?

[Wulfram]

(to Dabrikishaw) Sear?

Sera, presumably

[In Exile]

Always two, there are. A Keeper, and a First.

And a spare.

[andy6915]

Quick point to add about Merrill.

 

"That's true... The Dalish always say we're the only true elves. And I've lived her for years, and I never thought... I've barely even looked at them. I feel like such a fool."

 

1:30

 

 

 

Just figured that would add to the discussion.

[KaiserShep]

For how much I dislike Sear, her opinions on the Dalish aren't something I disagree with her on.

 

That they look like t*ts for living in the woods?

[andy6915]

That they look like t*ts for living in the woods?

 

I wish Dalish let their t!ts out in the woods... Somehow, it would fit for people in tune with nature and the forests to be nude or at least have both genders be shirtless. Who knows, maybe there's a Dalish clan out there with that mindset .

[Junebug]

 

Look, the Qun is in nooooo way perfect. I see the philosophy as slavery myself. An efficient society, yes but cruel. I only admire their call to action more than Dalish clans which was where I was drawing a comparison. They vocally spit on the way elves and poor people are treated in the cities. Dalish clans don't want anything to do with city elves, suffering or not. It is attributed to their aloof disposition toward "flat-ears" and shemlen.