I wish Dalish let their t!ts out in the woods... Somehow, it would fit for people in tune with nature and the forests to be nude or at least have both genders be shirtless. Who knows, maybe there's a Dalish clan out there with that mindset
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But the qunari do for both genders. Something for everyone. 
(to Junebug) The Qunari, however much I like bits of their society and philosophy, vocally spits on everyone who lives outside the Qun because they see them as having no purpose and they refer to outsiders as "bas" which means "thing" and according to the Wikipedia, that implies "of being purposeless". They do not vocally spit on the way elves and poor people are treated in cities as much as they vocally spit upon how people in Kirkwall are in their eyes.
Yes, there are terms like "basalit-an" which is a term that means a non-Qunari is worthy of respect but being referred to as such is personally earned meaning a person starts out being considered purposeless by the Qun. They have to earn not being regarded as something inferior.
The Qunari encountered in Kirkwall has an aloof disposition towards everybody regardless of race and status and, as far as I remember, unless people came to them for purpose meaning conversion, they did not help them.
If you are allowed to make stuff up entirely, I am allowed to site "misty lore".
So every civilization in Thedas practices slavery and blood sacrifice?
Everyone does business with Tevinter on some level... those bodies have to come from somewhere.
The Qunari also practice slavery.
(to Junebug) The Qunari, however much I like bits of their society and philosophy, vocally spits on everyone who lives outside the Qun because they see them as having no purpose and they refer to outsiders as "bas" which means "thing" and according to the Wikipedia, that implies "of being purposeless". They do not vocally spit on the way elves and poor people are treated in cities as much as they vocally spit upon how people in Kirkwall are in their eyes.
Yes, there are terms like "basalit-an" which is a term that means a non-Qunari is worthy of respect but being referred to as such is personally earned meaning a person starts out being considered purposeless by the Qun. They have to earn not being regarded as something inferior.
The Qunari encountered in Kirkwall has an aloof disposition towards everybody regardless of race and status and, as far as I remember, unless people came to them for purpose meaning conversion, they did not help them.
That's just the Antaam...Who are only raised to fight.....which is an issue.
The quns problem is the first act of interaction to anyone one is a knife pointed at the neck. If they want to spread there mumbo jumbo they need to learn that. And they kinda do except for the Antaam.
(to Junebug) The Qunari, however much I like bits of their society and philosophy, vocally spits on everyone who lives outside the Qun because they see them as having no purpose and they refer to outsiders as "bas" which means "thing" and according to the Wikipedia, that implies "of being purposeless". They do not vocally spit on the way elves and poor people are treated in cities as much as they vocally spit upon how people in Kirkwall are in their eyes.
That's really interesting. I learned awhile ago in a classical civilizations class, that the reason the Romans called outsiders barbarians was because to them speaking a language that wasn't Roman sounded like "bar bar bar" similar to the way that when a person is make fun of a language like Russian they would make a lot of harsh sounds. My memory could be failing me about that but I think it's true. So for the Qunari word for people outside of the Qun to be "bas" is a cool similarity (even if it wasn't intended as so).
Now concerning the OP I'm not sure I have much to add about the either the Dalish or the city elves besides my option, and variations of that have already been said. The conversation about this whole situation something I think is rather thought provoking, and I wonder if the two groups can ever come to an understanding.
I really want to crawl back to my main point and that is that the Bioware writer's shafted the Dalish with Inquisition. I have no idea how I got into this long debate of whose in the right. But still, I really hate what Inquisition does, especially since the Dalish Inquisitor most of the time just sits back and lets everyone else say stuff about their culture. Like Dalish abandon their own young (... where the hell did this come from and how does it make sense?) and when they have more than three mages they automatically throw out the excess (despite that most clans in the previous games were so desperate for a First they had to go looking beyond their own clan to find one and the Dalish lore lamenting the fact they'll die out because they are running out of Keepers).
It's just so out of place and nonsensical, it makes it look like it was only added in purely to cast them in a horrible light which again, I really would like to know the reason for.
The Dalish are hardly the only organization that looks bad. To wit, the Seekers are a bunch of hacks who use possession, the Templars started eating Red Lyrium with distressing rapidity, the Wardens are vainglorious and easily fooled, the Chantry's leadership portrayed as completely ineffectual when not obstrusive, and the Mages themselves throw themselves into slavery at the tail end of their war for freedom. I don't understand why the Dalish are singled out here.
I don't understand why the Dalish are singled out here.
'Cause I found an analysis that sums up my feelings about them so I made a thread. I mean, if you'd like to single out other groups, be my guest—I agree that the groups you mentioned are pretty bad too. Just don't do it here 'cause it'd heavily derail discussions about Dalish clans 
But the qunari do for both genders. Something for everyone.
No. Qunari women cover their chests.
Everyone does business with Tevinter on some level... those bodies have to come from somewhere.
The Qunari also practice slavery.
Or those people are kidnapped, like we see happen in every game at least once if not multiple times.
I agree with the Qun practicing slavery, but I said civilizations in Thedas. The Qun is not in Thedas but the continent next to it.
No. Qunari women cover their chests.
Or those people are kidnapped, like we see happen in every game at least once if not multiple times.
I agree with the Qun practicing slavery, but I said civilizations in Thedas. The Qun is not in Thedas but the continent next to it.
(to leaguer of one) Do you know if the comic series is considered to be canon because there is a Tamassaran who holds a similar sentiment and even tries to forcibly expose Isabella to qamek when she refuses. This would have effectively lobotimized her, wiping out her memories and rendering her into a mindless slave something called Viddath-bas . The qamek is apparently used on those who refuse to convert to the ideology of the Qun including mages.
(to Patient.Zero) I find the lore of Thedas and all of its cultures, the Qun included, very fascinating, flaws and all.
I do think coexistence is possibly between humans and elves though I am usual hopeful about these sorts of things but I also think it would be very difficult to maintain for the first long while because of racial tensions and historical baggage.
I think the overall sentiment of the Dalish, individuals and their personal goals aside, differs from the overall sentiment of the City elves, individuals and their personal goals aside. The Dalish want a land to settle as their own and where they can practice their culture and religion without fearing persecution and making themselves a stationary target while I think the city elves want to no longer be confined to the sorry life in the Alienage but be able to be on equal footing with humans and dwarven citizens without fearing their non-alienage homes and businesses burned down because they were elves "forgetting themselves" and had enough coin to heave themselves out of a ghetto.
In short (TL;DR), the Dalish want someplace to call a home without fearing persecution and the city elves wants to be able to live in the cities on equal footing with non-elven citizens without fearing persecution.
The city elves believes that they can better lives for themselves and other elves by attaining authoritive positions within the cities and so give their people a voice. The Dalish believes that they can better lives for themselves and other elves by attaining an independant settlement and so give their people a voice.
What is perhaps the enemy of their respective sentiments is racial prejudice and persecution. The belief that city elves are inferior, sometimes that they are little better than animals, and so the elves who break the norm by, as an example, attending the University of Orlais are seen as an insult because it challenges this notion. The belief that a gathering of Dalish or a clan of an atypical size is a precursor to violence and so must be prematurely dealt with it.
(Pardon in advance for any bad parahrasing)
As a note, the Sabrae clan and the Lavellan Clan both have dealings and trades with human settlements. While I know it is confirmed by dialogue, I'm having trouble remembering who says it in the Sabrae clan during Origins but I think it might either be Marethari or Hahren Paivel.
I think the Dalish people are generally nice people who prefer to be friendly. But I think their beliefs are backward and foolish. Not only do they not care about the present, they don't genuinely care about the past either. They want the myths of the elven "gods" to be true. They don't want the truth if the truth contradicts their legend. Solas tried to educate them, and they violently rejected him. Abelas speaks poorly of the Dalish and calls their legends wrong. He and his kind see the Dalish as the Dalish see the city elves.
One saving grace is that the Dalish are willing to get along in the present and admit to recent past mistakes. Like Red Crossing. If presented with proof that the Dalish were to blame for the incident, that specific clan will try to make amends. The downside is that they don't know how to communicate this to humans. What they consider a respectable apology the humans see as a gesture of dominance. Like giving a golden halla statue to the village that suffered much in that Exalted March.
As for Sera, I don't think she looks down on Dalish or even dislikes them. I think Sera sees herself as a person, and believes all people should see themselves as such. Her problem with the elves is that they are too much in either wrong direction. Dalish have a superiority complex. City elves have an inferiority complex. She thinks no one should be any which way and should just meet in the middle. People are people, and should see their peopleyness.
All that said, I don't blame the Dalish for not getting involved in the affairs of city elves. It isn't their fight. Just like slaves in Tevinter isn't Orlais' fight. Well why not, they're humans, right? You can't expect the Dalish to risk their lives to free flat ears who in all likelihood won't accept the Dalish teachings anyway.
Now, the Dalish might want to consider allowing city elves to learn about the elven "gods" if they want to, but again, that's up to them. I just think if you really believed in something then you would want to inform others of it.
No. Qunari women cover their chests.
..With a white, silk like material.
Dude, thin white cloth on a naked dark body covers nothing.
The Dalish are not better or worse when it comes to lowlanders and Avvar, they preserve ancient cultures and lore. I really do not know why people give them extra **** for wanting to live in the woods.
Tevinter or the Qunari are way more shitty than the Dalish so... being elven does not mean you want to save everyone that has big ears, the same way a Tevinter human will not care if Orlais is conquered.
The Dalish are not better or worse when it comes to lowlanders and Avvar, they preserve ancient cultures and lore. I really do not know why people give them extra **** for wanting to live in the woods.
Because they go around wondering why anyone wouldn't want to live in the woods, their religion is based on the idea that humans are a literal plague that cost them immortality and need to be eradicated before the elves can reclaim their old ways and as seen in the Dalish Origin one possible punishment for the heinous crime of being human in the wrong place at the wrong time is death. Plus a self-victimization streak that makes tumblr look sane.
(to Steelcan) Their religion is not based upon the idea that humans are a literal plague. Their religion is based upon a pantheon of gods referred to as "the Creators" with mentions of another race of gods called "the Forgotten Ones". According to the Wikipedia and I quote; "Many believed the gods had judged them unworthy of their long lives and cast them down among the quicklings". That was their interpretation of their loss of immortality from a religious perspective and it places the fault on the elves, not the humans. The loss of immortality is a punishment for a lacking in the elves according to this interpretation.
The interpretation of their loss of immortality and the one you are likely referring to have no suggested ties to their religion and I quote from the Wikipedia again; "The ancient elves grew friendly with humans, but soon discovered that breeding humans produced only human babies, while exposure to the "quick children" caused elves to quicken themselves" (...) In fear, the elves withdrew from human contact". Granted with what we now know of the ancient elves and even before, it is possibly that some of them tried enacting a blood campaign out of desperation but unless I missed something, nothing is said that suggests that they attempted to eradicate humans nor see that as something that must be and this explaination holds no mention of religion nor their pantheon.
Some of the modern Dalish elves believe human civilisations will fall time after time because they see it as an inevitability, I believe it is in Origins this is said by Hahren Paivel, but they do not believe all humanity as a race should be eradicated for the elves to prosper if I remember correctly.
The "punishment" you describe in the Dalish Origin can be perpetrated by two elves but they did it with no sanction of the Sabrae clan and if Keeper Marethari learns of it, she disapproves of the crime. The Sabrae clan is also said in the Dalish Origin to trade with human settlements which suggest they do not hold a "murder-all-humans attitude" and since the consequences of it is shown to endanger the clan as a whole and had the misfortune with the mirror not occured then it is highly likely that Tamlen and Mahariel would have been punished.
Perhaps they would even have been exiled like Velanna was by her clan's Keeper when she tried to encourage her clan to seek vengeance against a group of humans.
There are Dalish clans that are vicious towards humans solely for the fact that they are humans as in the case with those who use "Fen'Harel Teeth" and judge all humans guilty of events that occured long before their grandparents even existed but just as those exist, so do the clans that are the oppposite like Lavellan.
In addition, the Dalish elves are already living what they believe is close to the old way and are trying to reclaim bits of their culture and history, however flawed their approach might be, so once again I must doubt that they are waiting for humanity to be eradicating for them to start that.
Because they go around wondering why anyone wouldn't want to live in the woods, their religion is based on the idea that humans are a literal plague that cost them immortality and need to be eradicated before the elves can reclaim their old ways and as seen in the Dalish Origin one possible punishment for the heinous crime of being human in the wrong place at the wrong time is death. Plus a self-victimization streak that makes tumblr look sane.
That is an exaggerations (and almost sounds like a tumblr one side view of things, ironically), actually both sides, humans and dalish elves are responsible for a lot of atrocities.
But let us assume that is all true, the Qunari are still far more dangerous and have the means to do far worse than a couple of people in the forest with pointy arrows.
..With a white, silk like material.
Dude, thin white cloth on a naked dark body covers nothing.
Most qunari have grey skin, which isn't exactly a dark color. And who said the cloth was thin? No depictions of female Qun-Qunari (the real thing, not a vashoth) have shown what they wear to be see through.
..With a white, silk like material.
Dude, thin white cloth on a naked dark body covers nothing.
They'll probably retcon that by the time we actually meet female Qunari so that they are fully dressed.
The Dalish are not better or worse when it comes to lowlanders and Avvar, they preserve ancient cultures and lore. I really do not know why people give them extra **** for wanting to live in the woods.
Tevinter or the Qunari are way more shitty than the Dalish so... being elven does not mean you want to save everyone that has big ears, the same way a Tevinter human will not care if Orlais is conquered.
I think the main difference between the Dalish, Avvar, and Qunari is each group's knowledge of their culture and faith. All religions to a point believe that they are practising the the true/right way of living life, but unlike the Qunari or Avvar the Dailsh proclaim this without any actual knowledge of their own faith. They got a lot of it wrong according to Solas, Alblas, and various codexes found throughout the game but they continue to practice there (not really) Dalish ways with an air of superiority. It's not really the fact that they live in the woods that I think gets them a bad rap, but rather that fact that they cherish half truths and misinterpretations instead of real live people. In essence they're like children on a playground trying to build a palace to live in with the sand in the sandbox.
Now of course it can be said that not all Dalish are like that, (there is no group of people that are 100% identical) but that hasn't changed anything for either side. I do agree that it would be impractical for the Dalish to try and storm a city to free the elves in the alienage but also think that they could do without their "holier then thou" attitude.
The dalish are a mixed bunch at one extreme you got the Dalish inquisitor's clan which cares about human affairs, the city elves and can even become part of the government of a free march city on the other hand at the other extreme you got extreme Xenophobic dalish, whole clans that are little better than murderous bandits and those extremely strange Dalish in western Orlais who were apparently offering up their human enemies to unknown entities like sacrifices. Most Dalish however between those extremes.
Any thing related to the city elves and dalish along with their mixed and varied views on each other will also be complex as both cultures are quite proud of their culture and beliefs in spite of outside forces including other elves.
Guest_Faerunner_*
I've been trying to put into words how I feel about most Dalish clans for a while because I see a lot of criticism about Sera and Solas concerning them. Luckily for me, I came across a very good and in-depth analysis that explains how I feel about them. The analysis contains The Masked Empire and Dragon Age 2 spoilers.
Spoiler(source)
Hasty generalization, with a dash of biased sampling.
You're using one clan from one book to somehow represent ALL DALISH EVERYWHERE.
Also conveniently ignoring that different clans we've encountered in past games took in or assisted city elves without any fuss: The Sabre Clan took in Pol, the Dalish Camp in DAO (don't know the clan name) took in Lanaya, and an unknown Clan helped Alarith. Also conveniently ignoring that even Solas admits that, among the Dalish, each clan is different; some regularly trade and interact with humans (like Clan Lavellan), some are little more than bandits, others have disappeared entirely into the forest. It goes to follow that different clans can also have different views and policies about outsiders too. But you pick one sample that supports your bias that all Dalish embody X negative stereotype (unreasonable hostility and indifference toward all non-Dalish, including city elves) in an attempt to get everyone to see all Dalish the way you do.
You also conveniently ignore that the elves don't share one big hive mind like the darkspawn, nor that the Dalish culture is one of forced systematic brainwashing of all members everywhere like the Qunari; so the one example you use can't reflect "all Dalish" because thousands of free-thinking individuals can't all have the exact xerox-copy opinions and beliefs of one clan (especially since most clans don't interact with each other apart from one meeting once a decade). The Dalish have certain widespread cultural values, it's true, (valuing the past, history, tradition, their own religion, resisting cultural genocide, holding out for a new homeland, etc.) but individuals within that culture are free to decide for themselves how much or how little they believe it, how passionate or dispassionate they feel about it, etc.
and another good point made about Merrill that I feel reflects the ignorance in Dalish clans:
Spoiler(source)
That's funny, because I've got party banter from DA2 that shows that Merrill cares about the plight of city elves; at least even more than Fenris, who is a city elf.
Considering Merrill's own clan helped (read: took in) a runaway city elf, it's not unreasonable for her to believe other clans would help them too. In fact, Alarith from DAO was a runaway Tevinter slave who was saved by Dalish on his way to Ferelden. Bandits attacked the caravan he was traveling on, the Dalish drove away the bandits, and then let him keep his stuff and continue on his merry way when they saw that he was a fellow elf.
Sure, not all Clans are as helpful to runaway city elves as Merrill's clan or Alarith's rescuers, but their assistance still prove that not all Clans are as actively hostile or indifferent to all non-Dalish as the one clan that Briala comes across either.
Anyway, back to Merrill. We also have these gems:
(How rich coming from Fenris. The whole reason he and Hawke started traveling together was because Hawke was willing to involve his/herself in the affairs of Fenris when he asked. I see that when Fenris needs help, Hawke should involve himself or herself in his affairs. Everyone else though? Eh, let 'em rot.)
For how much crud people give Merrill for supposedly showing "Dalish haughtiness/indifference" toward city elves, she's shown to care very much while Fenris shows complete contempt despite being a city elf himself. Merrill also spends all her time trying to repair a mirror because, whether you agree with her or not, she wants to use it to help elves. Fenris has no interest in helping anyone (except Hawke). He may have suffered worse misfortune than Merrill, but now that he's better off he has no interest in helping other elves who're poor off, nor helping anyone in peril the way he was helped by Hawke.
Everyone jumps down Merrill's throat for supposedly not caring or helping enough, and attribute that supposed indifference to her Dalish upbringing, but not a peep about Fenris' blatant contempt and flat refusal to help other elves despite being a city elf himself, and thus not having a convenient "Dalish don't care" generalization to blame. (Nor Sera's, for that matter; "too elfy" indeed.)
Was this insightful? Do you have a different opinion? More evidence of Dalish's indifference? An appeal for the Dalish? Lemme know what you think!
Insightful? Hardly. All I see is you making sweeping generalization about all Dalish based on the actions of one clan, or one fan to dev Q&A about Merrill. (Who, herself, is only one Dalish from one clan.)
All I see from you is this mentality in play: "What one Andrastian does is his own responsibility, what one Dalish does reflects on all Dalish."
Not at all! The author, who is not me, even admits not all Dalish clans are like this. They were speaking in regards to Sera which was why they picked on residents in Val Royeaux and chose The Masked Empire.
And the author was right about Merrill—she did admit she didn't notice the plight of alienage elves if Varric & Co. hadn't pointed it out to her. Cut Fenris some slack. He was enslaved and abused his entire life, his mother before him, and his sister tried to traffick him back into slavery. I'd be upset too if a person who lived pretty contently put themselves in the place of the suffering for a few years and suddenly it's their place to shame me for wanting to rest.
Yes, "the Dalish don't care" is a generalization. I didn't wanna change the title of the original analysis but her point is valid, especially in regards to Sera and the Dalish clans near Val Royeaux. Plus, most of the Dalish clans we run into are ignorant of what's going on in the alienages/Tevinter and shame the elves for losing their way just as Merrill did to Fenris...but I guess #NotAllDalish.
Not attacking and being racist to humans, thus giving humans reason to attack and be racist to elves can be a start.
WELL NOW. That's some impressive victim-blaming right there. How about the humans just stop treating elves like second-class citizens whose lives don't matter, or perhaps they could stop using and abusing them in general? Retaliation (and becoming aggressively insular) is pretty justifiable when you're being actively, violently oppressed. The Dalish are essentially always on the defensive, because they live under constant threat from humans. It's pretty natural that this leads to a culture that quite viciously looks out for their own. Nobody else is on their side, after all, and it's not unlikely that they would end up extinct if they were too friendly and trusting toward humans, or even toward other elves.
The Dalish are a scattered, nomadic people and very few in number. I'm not sure how you figure that they should be able to help the city elves when they can't even stay in one place for long for fear of being hunted down by templars (who want to kill/capture any dalish elf born with magic, and probably have no qualms about putting down a few others in the process), or simply attacked by humans who want to make sure that the Dalish don't decide to make themselves comfortable anywhere in the vicinity of a human settlement. I'm pretty sure that it's kind of hard to amass an army and outfit it (if that's what people think they should do) when you have to live in small groups and remain on the move to ensure the very survival of your people.
By contrast, the city elves are at least allowed to exist, even though they live in squalor. They are also much stronger in sheer numbers than the Dalish are. If anything, the city elves are in a better position to help the Dalish rather than the other way around.
When it comes to Sera's refusal to accept that a Dalish Inquisitior might want to hold on to their culture (completely without pushing it onto anyone else) for the singular reason that "elfy" stuff makes her uncomfortable, her behaviour is actually disgustingly racist and inconsiderate. I think she's well written, because she gets under my skin. I have some uncomfortable love/hate feelings toward her, and the primary issue is her willingness to hurt an inquisitor that might be her friend or lover, simply because they aren't willing to renounce the culture they grew up in. It proved to me that she's untrustworthy, however much I may appreciate her as a character. Instead of trying to accept that she and the Inquisitor are different people with different opinions, she will actually break off a relationship simply because the Inquisitor wants to entertain the idea that the elven gods might be real. People who are certain that their unfounded and unproven opinions must be the only truth make me very uncomfortable, because they often lash out when their opinions are questioned. Sera can't be reasoned with, and that makes her both interesting and scary to me.
Yes, agreed. The root of the all of these problems is definitely humans and they have far more power to stop allllllll of this than anyone else put together as they are in positions of power.
You make a good point about Dalish clans. I've always said that their weakness was their division but, you're right on that as well. City elves by comparison are in a better position to help the Dalish clans...if humans weren't keeping them oppressed and enslaved. Humans...*sigh*
Ugh, I agree about Sera. There is so much about her to love but her inability to compromise and her toxic treatment of romanced Lavellan is really infuriating. I think I remember seeing that she even treated the human Inquisitor similarly, threatening to break up over philosophical differences. Have you seen the fan theory that she may be Andruil (or maybe have her essence)? It's pretty interesting.
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