136 réponses à ce sujet

[katling73]

I was to a certain extent. I mean, I was still shocked by the reveal but I was certainly aware that there was something fishy about him. There were a few things he did and said that made me go, "Huh? I'm fairly sure that's not right based on DAO." But... then again, I was also aware that both my Warden and Alistair were basically the noobs of the Wardens and had very little real idea of what being a Warden was all about (hence Riordan having to come in and tell them the sitch about how to kill archdemons) and so there was enough doubt in my mind to make me hesitate. Add to that the fact that the Wardens are damn secretive and so his hesitancy could have been simply him trying to figure out how to avoid questions he's not supposed to answer to non-Wardens but not really wanting to outright lie to the Inquisitor he deeply respects. (obvs I was on the friendship path with him)

 

I took him into the Fade on my second playthrough and practically snorted my drink out my nose at what the Nightmare says to him. Talk about hanging a lampshade on his story! That was a great big frilly lampshade with tassels on it!

[Paragonslustre]

Yes.

[Ashara]

For me it was clear that there was something odd about him because he doesn't hear the Calling at all and doesn't sense Corypheus/darkspwan presence. But I thought that could be due to him being a warden for too short time as in DAO they say that the Calling gets stronger with time ... His real past got me by surprise, and made me like him even more.

 

Now that I am replaying the game, I like hearing/reading all the hints about who he really is, The first one is when you meet him; there is a letter telling him that he can hide in Ferelden as nobody knows him. In my first playthrough I thought that note belonged to one of the bandits attacking him but now it is clear that it was sent to him

[Urzon]

Yes.

 

1. Him not being effected by the Calling, even though Stroud, Loghain, and Alistair were.
2. General elusiveness on the topic.
3. His dialogue with Cole.
4. And him never once saying, "I sense Darkspawn ahead!", even though there were a huge group of them there. 

[Dr. rotinaj]

Not at all. The only thing that would raise suspicion is him being unaffected by the Calling.

 

Him being evasive in conversation is perfectly within character for a Warden. A lot of people are harping on his explanation of how to kill an archdemon but it's technically correct. Alistair pretty much gives the same response when you ask him the same question in DAO. Many of the secrets of the Order are restricted to the higher-ups and even if we assume Warden-constables are privy to those secrets, they're secrets. He shouldn't be talking to an outsider about Warden affairs. Claiming that Blackwall's evasive responses to warden related questions was suspicious makes no sense to me.

 

For me, the more obvious hints like not being affected by the calling and not being able to sense darkspawn were dismissible as gameplay-story segregation issues. Only after replaying did I see the hints fit together.

[Knight of Dane]

To be honest, Alistair not reacting to his words told me more than anything that people experience the calling differently. If a Grey Warden i know from other games doesn't question Blackwalls response to the calling, why should I?

 

That's how I felt on pt 1

[Teddie Sage]

"The guy is too good to be true, a little bit boring... I figure he's hiding something ugly," then the quest happened and I was: "Boom, here it is." Redemption is a cool thing, I wasn't going to condemn him for his past actions, knowing how he tried so hard to change and doing good things. Sure, he lied, but he was still doing the "right thing" by facing his past and seeking redemption. When he did this selfless act of taking his friend's place, it was enough for my Inquisitor to see how brave he was to face his fears and enough to unshackle him from prison. 

[LonewandererD]

Yes, besides the obvious gaps in his knowledge and his evasiveness he didn't rub me the right way. He seemed to idealise the wardens and spoke of their legends of what they meant to be with optimism, real wardens who have seen what they have seen and had to fight in the deep roads are far more grounded, they care less for the legends and how they are meant to be as they've seen the reality of the situation and know the wardens for what they are. Also, he just to seem to hand wave off things like the blight, if he was really in ferelden he wouldn't just be wandering the wilderness fighting bands of darkspawn. When a blight goes down the warden get serious

 

-D-

[Gileadan]

Yeah.

 

When he got all evasive about the Wardens whenever I asked something, my thought was something along the lines of "Jeez, he doesn't know more than Ser Jory".

He claimed he was recruiting, but no sign of darkspawn blood. Couldn't sense the darkspawn in Valammar. And so on.

 

However, I wouldn't have been surprised if he had turned out to be a legit warden after all, because I half expected another retcon being on the way.

[Beregond5]

Yes, but only because, unfortunately, I knew exactly what the big reveal was (it was spoiled to me *sigh*). To be honest, if I hadn't known, I wouldn't have suspected a thing (and then I would have facepalmed at my second playthrough because, then, everything would have been obvious).  

[Toasted Llama]

As someone who's about as dumb as a goldfish when it comes to picking up subtle hints and knowing when someone is evasive/hiding something, no I wasn't suspicious at all.

I have a habit of being awfully trustworthy of people very quickly which is strengthened in video games because "duhr video game characters don't lie".

[Siven80]

Yes.

 

His character was very dissapointing.

 

I was hoping for an interesting Grey Warden character and we got the dull character instead.

[agonis]

As someone who's about as dumb as a goldfish when it comes to picking up subtle hints and knowing when someone is evasive/hiding something, no I wasn't suspicious at all.

I have a habit of being awfully trustworthy of people very quickly which is strengthened in video games because "duhr video game characters don't lie".

 

I thought myself to be cured of that misconception after the Isabella/Anders incident. But noooo, still "dumb as a goldfish" (to use your delightfull expression)

[Dieb]

I have a habit of being awfully trustworthy of people very quickly which is strengthened in video games because "duhr video game characters don't lie".

 

I keep telling myself don't think that's stupidity. Usually your companions love you, don't turn on you mid-combat, and when they tell fancy stories -the fancier they get really- you don't doubt them like with RL aquaintances. Every incredible detail just adds to their awesomeness rather than making them less believeable. We've all been indoctrinated by gameplay mechanics!

[turuzzusapatuttu]

Absolutely yes. Never trust a bearded man 

[Mikka-chan]

I thought he was a Warden, but lying about being Blackwall (who was supposed to be this super experienced dude that I knew was in Orlais).  I had this complicated theory on how he was a new recruit who killed Blackwall and replaced him.  It was sort of dumb.  Yet, uh, sort of right, so I guess I get some points?

 

Some of the things he said didn't bother me:

++ The Archdemon thing, I chalked up to being new and/or simply not wanting to talk about it (as it's a super secret, apparently)

++ The being in Ferelden and not knowing that only three Grey Wardens were around (when talking to Sera) I chalked up again to being new

++ The Calling not affecting him I yet again chalked up to him being new (I believe it's said the Calling is harsher for people made Wardens during a Blight)- and majorly in Blackwall's favour (for me not suspecting him) was that in my first playthrough was a Hawke Anders romance, and I figured she would have mentioned if her crazy boyfriend was hearing it so I was able to assume that some people just weren't (or that Blackwall had pretty good willpower)

++ The whole idealization 'Wardens are great people who never do sacrifices for the greater good!' (when talking to Iron Bull) I chalked up to being new, and honestly, Alistair in DAO has almost just the same high 'Wow the Wardens are so greatttt~' thing going on

++ And the biggest 'oh, he's a Warden' to me was that Alistair/Loghain/Stroud acted like he was when they met, rather then being all 'Uh, why you pretending, bro?'  (Which may be a plot hole, or maybe Warden's really can't sense each other as well as we assumed- no one at Adamant calls him out, either.)

 

The only thing that really stood out to me as 'not Wardeny' was him not ever doing the 'I sense Darkspawn!' or even being able to give an estimate on numbers (I understand that it may take time to be able to sense things that clearly, so 'since' he was new, not that big, but I would have expected instead of a stutter a 'I can't get the exact numbers, but (as I know about Deep Roads and stuff) I would estimate around fifty' or whateves),

 

 

So basically, I noticed almost all the clues, but justified them with 'He's a newbie' in my brain.  So, I fail.

[Giantdeathrobot]

''Any sword can kill an Archdemon. It just needs to be a... Grey Warden sword''.

 

That was the moment where I was thinking something's fishy. No Senior Warden worth its salt would ever not know about that.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

^ Aye it sounds silly, the GW sword eplanation. Granted, GW are not supposed to reveal the truth why it has to be them to kill the archdemon, etc but given Blackwall's supposed experience and  rank ; a greenie wouldn't be sent recruiting, he would surely know how to fib smoothly and credibly. He fumbled so blatently, I can't help but wonder what's his problem, what's he hiding.

 

Compare the vibes between him and Duncan.  It's a vast difference.

[Fredward]

Not really. He had a way of avoiding answers without seeming to. Now Solas? That boy dropped hints like an incontinent hen.

[Dai Grepher]

Personally, I suspected Blackwall after talking to him at Haven for a while and asking about the Wardens. He was more evasive than was needed. A real Warden could have said that he wasn't allowed to divulge Warden secrets. He was also evasive about his own personal past, and he expressed some concern about Leliana possibly knowing "everything" about everyone.

 

I will admit, my own personal familiarity with the Wardens did help in determining Blackwalls authenticity.

 

And then soon after this Cassandra and Blackwall had a party banter play out of sequence where she talks about Blackwall stealing honor due another. I wondered what that was about, then thought it might be banter related to some future revelation about him. So I reloaded to before the banter and continued on. This didn't really give it away for me, because I had suspected it anyway, but this was kind of annoying.

 

But as for my character, the suspicion started after getting to Skyhold and asking about the archdemon, but nothing conclusive. Then I took him with me to Halamshiral and that noble was making comments about recognizing him from somewhere. My character figured the noble might be mistaken, drunk, both, or may have possibly been referring to a time when he saw (the real) Blackwall and was confused that he looked somewhat different from when he saw him years before.

 

Then he asked about the Silverite Wings of Valor, and Blackwall's response being obvious. My character thought it strange not to at least mention what earned him the commendation. He understood not wanting to boast, but it was just the two of them. He could have at least plainly answered the question. That's when I believe my character's suspicion started to grow. But continuing to ask about it at the ball would have only caused problems, so he let it go.

 

Then when we met Stroud and he told us about the Calling, THEN Blackwall suddenly started hearing the Calling too. My character thought that MAYBE the Calling didn't start affecting everyone until that time, since we had met two Grey Wardens on the road and Cole confirmed that they were fine, they were them. Or maybe Blackwall didn't fear the Calling and so the spell didn't affect him as strongly. Okay.

 

Then in the Fade the Nightmare subtly punked Blackwall, and I think that's when my character "knew", but didn't want to press the issue at the time. And besides, the possibility existed that the Nightmare was referring to Blackwall's fear of not measuring up to the Warden standard. His response seemed to indicate that possibility. I headcanon this to be that my character thought the Nightmare was actually reading one of his fears, that Blackwall was not a Warden. But when Blackwall answered and then the other companions had their fears read, it made him doubt Blackwall more. But I think my character dismissed it, like it didn't count because it came from the Nightmare.

 

Then back at Skyhold we talked about Adamant and the Wardens, and my character thought that his name was Blackwall, but that he wasn't a Grey Warden. But he did know that he was at least trying to be one in deed. So he figured he would let Blackwall reveal it in his own time. And shortly after this we had the tavern discussion, and then the disappearance. And then the reveal.

 

My character was not that surprised about him not being a Warden, but he didn't know he had such a past. He was angry, because if anyone at Halamshiral had been able to identify him, it would have ruined everything. Not being a Warden would have been scandal enough, but to have it be Thom Rainier? The Inquisition would have been thrown out of the palace at the very least, and then everything would have been lost just from that alone. The whole point of taking Blackwall was to show Grey Warden support and present the Inquisition as a positive and noble force for good. Cassandra (Right Hand of the Divine, a princess of Nevarra), Vivienne (First Enchanter and Advisor to Empress Celene), Blackwall (Warden-Constable and earner of the Silverite Wings of Valor), Leliana (Left Hand of the Divine and Hero of the Fifth Blight), Cullen (Whatever he was), Josephine (Ambassador), and a mage Trevelyan (Inquisitor, and in my headcanon a Senior Enchanter of the Ostwick Circle of Magi). All highly respectable people with outstanding honors and achievements, or so we thought.

 

He was angry with Leliana too, for either not discovering this or not telling him about it.

 

But there it is. I suspected it early, but my character suspected it first at Skyhold, and then it just grew from there. But neither I nor my Inquisitor could have known he was Thom Rainier or that he had that dark of a past.

[katerinafm]

Oh, since we're examining the Grey Warden bits, anybody else found it almost insulting when he was like 'this Calling doesn't sway me'. Like, wow, thanks a lot on behalf of the poor Wardens that don't have a choice, Blackwall. I don't know that bit just really ticked me off.

[ShawDawg94]

I became suspicious after my Inquisitor asked him why a grey warden had to be the one to kill a archdemon. He stumbled so hard on that answer I knew something was up.

[duckley]

No - I am not that clever LOL! But now man o man - I see the holes. It has made me really dislike him and I am tempted not to recruit him. And Solas's conversations definately take on a whole new meaning....

[The Oracle]

I was suspicious just with meeting him in the first place. I think it's because had just I finished DA:O the day before and everything was fresh in my mind. I couldn't understand how a Grey Warden would invoke the Right of Conscription on a handful of men and then just tell them to go after a quick fight. Given everything Duncan said about having to be so careful when using this power, how they could easily garner mistrust and put them in a dangerous position, it was jarring to see him so casually throw it about and then disregard it. Especially as Grey Wardens know the implication behind the joining and just how much is taken when the Right of Conscription is enforced.

 

I was more leaning towards him being a rogue Warden, someone who didn't agree with their direction and so he split from them and was trying to do more on his own terms. I thought that was why he was avoiding the probing questions into what they were doing, because he had left them and was no longer considered a brother. The full reveal was surprising and, in a way, made me even more angry.