136 réponses à ce sujet

[Vegeta 77]

When Blackwall said he was in Ferelden during the blight that was all i needed to know.

[MrMrPendragon]

Not really.

His lack of a likeable personality made me ignore him (and just totally not even give a crap about him) that I didn't even see the reveal coming.

[CroGamer002]

I did find it odd he never said he sensed darkspawn near my party. Though I still dismissed it as possible writing oversight.

 

But after the reveal, OH BOY! I should have know.

 

 

Seriously, me not being refreshed about DA lore really helped me to not notice all his lies. Especially since the Inquisitor shouldn't know much about how the Grey Wardens truly work.

[In Exile]

Or you're one of the senior high ranking Grey Wardens too.

I'm not entirely convinced you can become one without showing some measure of loyalty. I imagine the troublemakers get a disproportionate share of suicide missions.

[phaonica]

Not really.

His lack of a likeable personality made me ignore him (and just totally not even give a crap about him) that I didn't even see the reveal coming.

 

That's pretty much how it went down for me too. I didn't expect it because I wasn't even considering him anymore. I found him boring and mostly ignored him, so I didn't really even think about him until I heard about the big reveal online. I actually rarely even had him on my team, so I was unlikely to have learned about his reveal for quite a while, if not for the forums.

[Tinxa]

I didn't suspect he wasn't a warden but I did suspect a dark past of some kind. I just thought he was some sort of murderer before he joined (which turned out to be pretty close).

 

When he said he was in Ferelden during the blight that did set off an alarm but I chalked up the whole thing to writers retcon. When he talked about the archdemon I just figured he didn't know because it was this big Grey Warden secret and why would they tell a simple recruiter that, especially once the Blight was over. I took him to Adamant and he gave a really convincing speech so I didn't think about it. I didn't use him much otherwise and I didn't pick up on him not sensing darkspawn. As for his fake calling immunity I thought it was just some simple explanation that allowed for a Grey warden companion in the party (like how no one gets the taint in DAO when adventuring with you).

 

I was pleasantly surprised with the reveal but not completely shocked. I really like the twist in his story but I think that's about the only thing that makes him interesting and it comes really late in the game. For 3/4 of the game you're just stuck with a fairly boring vanilla Grey Warden character that can't even give you any real information about Grey wardens.

[Patient.Zero]

I kind of ruined it for my self by reading part of a comment on a Youtube video. I stopped reading the comment when I realized it was a spoiler, but going into my first play through I did know that Blackwall was hiding something. I only pieced it together when the demon in the fade is trying to get under everyone's skin and when addressing Blackwall says: There's nothing like a Grey Warden. And you are nothing like a Grey Warden. Knowing that he was hiding something and hearing that line put two and two together for me. 

[warden-cmndr.shepard]

I actually was so surprised about it I may or may not have yelled "WHAT THE **** YOU *******!?" 
That actually happened to be my normal reaction to a number of the plot turnouts (i.e. Solas and Flemeth's true identities, the Hawke or Warden choice in Here Lies the Abyss, etc). I was quite sucked in during my first playthrough. Now I also am seeing the dropped hints about Blackwall, and will continue to be upset about the grumpy goody-two-shoes uncle of the Inquisition being sad. 

[Iakus]

Inquisitor: How do Grey Wardens deal with an Archdemon's?

Blackwall: Short answer. Stick it with swords until it stops moving

Inquisitor: Wardens are in all the stories, If it was that easy, anyone could do it.

Blackwall: No, it is really that simple. Just because the Archdemon is magic, doesn't mean it can't be killed with swords. It just......has to be a Grey Warden sword. Look, its not the killing blow that's the problem. Its getting the dragon to the point where its vulnerable, where it actually can be killed. There's no short answer for that, I'm afraid

 

Thanks for the laugh Blackwall.

Yeah see, that set off warning bells in my head.  No way a senior Warden wouldn't have  a pat answer to give to those not "in the club"

[warden-cmndr.shepard]

Yeah see, that set off warning bells in my head.  No way a senior Warden wouldn't have  a pat answer to give to those not "in the club"

I actually figured that the big deal about Grey Wardens was kept secret. I thought of how Riordan from Origins said something about a Warden having to die to kill an Archdemon was something they kept on the down low. Maybe I'm just remembering wrong. Blackwall's answer did feel sketchy, but I figured that he wouldn't let slip what actually has to happen in a casual conversation. 

[Steppenwolf]

The way he talked about the Archdemon and the Joining made me think he was off right from the start and him somehow being immune to the Calling really set off red flags. I thought he was going to be Corypheus' mole though.

[In Exile]

Yeah see, that set off warning bells in my head.  No way a senior Warden wouldn't have  a pat answer to give to those not "in the club"

 

But, again, that's basically Alistair's answer to you. And Duncan's answer. It's not as if Senior Wardens have to give seminar's entitled "The Fifth Blight and You: Stopping the Archdemon in A Year Or Less". 

[guntar74]

Oh def figured he wasn't an actual warden. He always gave lame answers and often stumbled if caught off guard by warden questions. But he was willing to help and fight for the inquisition and that was good enough for me.

[Fireheart]

Of course. One of the fist convos you can have with him is what he was doing during the Fifth Blight, and he says he was in Ferelden recruiting, and fought a couple darkspawn. And I'm like N word! That's bullcrap. It was only me and Alistair, and then Riordan. If he was just posing as a Grey Warden would've been fine, but having ordered his men to do such a heinous crime, and then he went into hiding, while his men got picked off one by one, that was too much... I still took him back though because I felt he had atoned as much as he could, everybody deserves a second chance (Loghain ). But sentenced him to become a Warden after everything was over.

[Iakus]

But, again, that's basically Alistair's answer to you. And Duncan's answer. It's not as if Senior Wardens have to give seminar's entitled "The Fifth Blight and You: Stopping the Archdemon in A Year Or Less". 

Except Alistair really didn't know.  And Duncan's answer was vague, not a baldfaced lie.

[In Exile]

Except Alistair really didn't know. And Duncan's answer was vague, not a baldfaced lie.

Again, the literal content of what Blackwall says isn't a lie. It's as vague as anything Alistair was told or Duncan said. It's not hard per set to kill the AD in the scheme of things and it DOES have to be a GW "blade" (in the colloquial sense).

[Dr. rotinaj]

I don't understand how people can claim his archdemon dialogue is an obvious hint. It's a completely valid response. It's 100% accurate it just doesn't go into details on the destruction of the Old God soul. Which is tied to their secret Joining ritual. The Wardens take a very need-to-know approach to information, even among their colleagues and friends. Riordan only revealed the specifics of archdemon-slaying when it was crucial. Anders refused to explain how the Joining would save Carver/Bethany, just that it could. What people need to realize is that the Inquisitor is an outsider and the image that the Wardens show to the outside is "We can sense darkspawn and we are the best darkspawn killers. Help us out during a blight and don't ask questions and we'll take care of it." Blackwall's line about the archdemon falls completely in line with that image.

 

I think people are retroactively finding evidence or they got suspicious and tried to find anything that matched their hunch.

 

I mean c'mon. Ask Alistair how the Warden's defeat the Blight and he says "Chop off the snake's head."

[Dai Grepher]

Oh, since we're examining the Grey Warden bits, anybody else found it almost insulting when he was like 'this Calling doesn't sway me'. Like, wow, thanks a lot on behalf of the poor Wardens that don't have a choice, Blackwall. I don't know that bit just really ticked me off.

 

Not really. His comment was more along the lines of him not fearing the Calling. Not that he felt the Calling and it didn't bother him. His statement was more truthful than condescending, and his intention was to show that he wanted to help fight, not just roll over like most Wardens did.
 

[Dai Grepher]

I was suspicious just with meeting him in the first place. I think it's because had just I finished DA:O the day before and everything was fresh in my mind. I couldn't understand how a Grey Warden would invoke the Right of Conscription on a handful of men and then just tell them to go after a quick fight. Given everything Duncan said about having to be so careful when using this power, how they could easily garner mistrust and put them in a dangerous position, it was jarring to see him so casually throw it about and then disregard it. Especially as Grey Wardens know the implication behind the joining and just how much is taken when the Right of Conscription is enforced.

 

I wasn't bothered by that. First, he invoked conscription but he didn't actually follow through on it. So it was as if he didn't invoke it. I saw it as a possibility that he simply let some young scamps off the hook after putting the fear into them. No big deal. Plus, letting them go didn't matter since there wasn't a blight.

 

I also thought that about him possibly getting in trouble for using it that way, then I remembered that a lot of Wardens are jerks like that. So that didn't bother me either. In fact, in hindsight, I saw that and the use of Grey Warden treaties as pretty ballsy. To throw those down on people and nations when you're not actually a Grey Warden? What balls. It actually made me think he might be legit in that case.

[Dai Grepher]

But, again, he's right. He actually parallel Riordan who tells you that killing the AD isn't the hard part, but rather making sure it stays dead. The AD IS nothing more than a big load bearing boss, and the GWs as far as we know don't have any more sophisticated view of it beyond that part.

And despite the flub with Anora the Joining is not supposed to be public knowledge.

 

I don't think that's the same at all. Riordan says that unless it's a Grey Warden who does the slaying it won't be enough. Blackwall makes it sound like Wardens aren't necessary but should still be the ones to do it for posterity's sake.

 

That wasn't a flub. In fact, the Inquisitor can also state that the Joining is often fatal when Blackwall is sentenced to join the Wardens, and Blackwall will reply that if he dies in the Joining then it will be no less than what he deserves.

[Dai Grepher]

Hof: How do the Grey Wardens defeat the Blight?

Alistair: We chop off the snake's head, it's the only way ...

 

For all intents and purposes, it is just a really big darkspawn to the Wardens. Even if Blackwall knew the specifics of archdemon slaying (which is implied to be known only by high level wardens), he shouldn't share it with an outsider as it is tied to the secret Joining ritual. Saying "wardens need to stab it until it dies" is a completely satisfactory answer because it's true and it doesn't reveal Warden secrets.

 

That's not the same question though. How do you defeat a blight? Kill the leader. That's not the same as asking how you kill the leader and then being told the wrong answer.

 

No, it isn't just a really big darkspawn. A darkspawn can be killed by anyone, and the Wardens actually prefer it that way when armies and especially mages get involved and help them destroy wave after wave of Darkspawn.

 

But when it comes to the archdemon it's, "Wait, wait, wait! Let a Grey Warden kill it!". An archdemon is probably the ONLY darkspawn that soldiers are told to cease fire against.

 

We're not saying he should share the secret with non-Wardens, but his answer was wrong and clumsy. He could have just said, "You kill it mostly like you would a high dragon. Clip it's wings first to ground it. Have soldiers keep the darkspawn from aiding it while the Wardens rush in and slay it." Then if asked why a Warden has to slay it, he could have said, "That's classified, but suffice it to say, it ties into our Joining."

[Dai Grepher]

I don't understand how people can claim his archdemon dialogue is an obvious hint. It's a completely valid response. It's 100% accurate it just doesn't go into details on the destruction of the Old God soul. Which is tied to their secret Joining ritual. The Wardens take a very need-to-know approach to information, even among their colleagues and friends. Riordan only revealed the specifics of archdemon-slaying when it was crucial. Anders refused to explain how the Joining would save Carver/Bethany, just that it could. What people need to realize is that the Inquisitor is an outsider and the image that the Wardens show to the outside is "We can sense darkspawn and we are the best darkspawn killers. Help us out during a blight and don't ask questions and we'll take care of it." Blackwall's line about the archdemon falls completely in line with that image.

 

I think people are retroactively finding evidence or they got suspicious and tried to find anything that matched their hunch.

 

I mean c'mon. Ask Alistair how the Warden's defeat the Blight and he says "Chop off the snake's head."

 

Because his answer is incorrect. Now, that doesn't mean much to the Inquisitor because he or she doesn't know the truth of the matter, but the players who beat Origins do know it.

 

Also, he could have just said he wasn't allowed to talk about it.

 

Actually, Riordan assumed they had been told, but then he remembered that Duncan hadn't enough time with them before the battle started to actually explain it.

 

Exactly. Anders refused to tell you. Blackwall made something up to tell you.

 

The question of how you defeat the Blight is not the same question as how do you slay an archdemon. You end the Blight by slaying the Archdemon. You slay the Archdemon by sticking it with swords, especially a Grey Warden sword? Sorry, but no.

[snackrat]

Pretty much. They hint as much in his INTRO, when he's all "Grey Wardens can inspire... make you better than you think you are", closes his eyes, faces off to the side... I thought that was some shady s*** right there already.

"Wardens are the best and their job is to fight any evil they find" (time and time again we see the GW care ONLY about stopping the darkspawn, in ANY way)

Then there's "the darkspawn are unnatural and sustained by...... evil"

"Oh Duncan, right right... uhh, good man"

"Stick the Archdemon with swords until it dies"

"What is a calling? OH that thing I alone, out of all the GW, completely resist?"

How many spawn are there? "Oh um a lot I guess"

"Oh during the Fereldan blight I was totally there and just hid out in the wilds while others saved the world"

Fine keep your secrets Blackwall Greatly Approves

 

Didn't necessarily guess he was a merc captain gone murderer gone fugitive, but you can see pretty damn fast he isn't a real GW. More obvious if you've been a Warden yourself via DAO.

 

EDIT: Oh, and on TOP of that his codex entry (or was it a letter on Lel's desk?) mentions his story and Blackwall's known locations don't match up. Lel dismisses it as an info error.

[FiveThreeTen]

Yes, it was obvious he wasn't a Warden.

 

As for the revelation, I wasn't really surprised. Mostly because I suspected Beardy had been involved in some shaddy mercenary business. Turns out it wasn't so far from the truth.

[Xiltas]

Most of the time, yes. At one point, I wasn't really sure anymore, and I remember I thought to myself "Damn, it would be nice if during the next Dragon Age game we got a character who only posed as a Grey Warden.".