136 réponses à ce sujet

[9TailsFox]

Pretty much. They hint as much in his INTRO, when he's all "Grey Wardens can inspire... make you better than you think you are", closes his eyes, faces off to the side... I thought that was some shady s*** right there already.

"Wardens are the best and their job is to fight any evil they find" (time and time again we see the GW care ONLY about stopping the darkspawn, in ANY way)

Then there's "the darkspawn are unnatural and sustained by...... evil"

"Oh Duncan, right right... uhh, good man"

"Stick the Archdemon with swords until it dies"

"What is a calling? OH that thing I alone, out of all the GW, completely resist?"

How many spawn are there? "Oh um a lot I guess"

"Oh during the Fereldan blight I was totally there and just hid out in the wilds while others saved the world"

Fine keep your secrets Blackwall Greatly Approves

 

Didn't necessarily guess he was a merc captain gone murderer gone fugitive, but you can see pretty damn fast he isn't a real GW. More obvious if you've been a Warden yourself via DAO.

 

EDIT: Oh, and on TOP of that his codex entry (or was it a letter on Lel's desk?) mentions his story and Blackwall's known locations don't match up. Lel dismisses it as an info error.

Actually I didn't like how Stroud just tell you stuff. Shouldn't it be secret.

Well my warden is sarcastic so.

 

Why warden must kill archdemon?

We do secret ritual, dance naked in moonlight. And then we learn summon magical sword and stab arch demon with it.

 

What is calling?

It's like in tavern you her song. We her darkspawn singing.

 

Ok  seriously. In Blakwalls place I would just say it's secret. And like I say Stroud just told our Inquisitor all secrets. I know he have problems with grey wardens but i am sure he still loyal to the cause.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

yes, probably because i already knew

[Hazegurl]

When Blackwall said he was in Ferelden during the blight that was all i needed to know.

I forgot about that piece of dialogue!   I immediately was like...

 

 

But I explained it away as he probably didn't want to seem useless to the IQ.

[Hazegurl]

This really irked me too. At that point, both the player and the inquisitor have received so many red flags about Blackwall that there should have been an option to confront him about it directly. If he still still refused to tell the truth there should have been an option to kick him out.

 

This is especially true if the inquisitor was in a relationship with the man. For my inquisitor it was excruciating to know Blackwall was blatantly lying and that he didn't trust her enough to tell the truth. She didn't want to get dragged along in such a relationship, but the game didn't offer a chance to get out until much later. Bioware shouldn't have made Blackwall's deception so obvious and then force us to go along with it so long.

I agree, the IQ actually looks sort of stupid concerning Blackwall because I don't think Bioware anticipated some people realizing he wasn't a GW before the reveal. So you're kinda stuck playing the clueless IQ or headcanon pretending to be clueless.  It sort of ticks me off when Blackwall says "I knew enough to fool you." if the IQ confronts him about it.  I was like, yeeeeah sure you did.

[Dr. rotinaj]

That's not the same question though. How do you defeat a blight? Kill the leader. That's not the same as asking how you kill the leader and then being told the wrong answer.

 

No, it isn't just a really big darkspawn. A darkspawn can be killed by anyone, and the Wardens actually prefer it that way when armies and especially mages get involved and help them destroy wave after wave of Darkspawn.

 

But when it comes to the archdemon it's, "Wait, wait, wait! Let a Grey Warden kill it!". An archdemon is probably the ONLY darkspawn that soldiers are told to cease fire against.

 

We're not saying he should share the secret with non-Wardens, but his answer was wrong and clumsy. He could have just said, "You kill it mostly like you would a high dragon. Clip it's wings first to ground it. Have soldiers keep the darkspawn from aiding it while the Wardens rush in and slay it." Then if asked why a Warden has to slay it, he could have said, "That's classified, but suffice it to say, it ties into our Joining."

 

I said that it is just a big darkspawn to the Wardens. For a Warden, they literally have to stab it until it dies.

 

The questions are absolutely analogous. How to end the blight? Kill the archdemon. How to kill the archdemon? Warden stabs it until it dies. The answers don't treat the act of killing an archdemon as particularly unique.

 

While I can accept Blackwall's answer being called clumsy (though I would say direct or to the point is a better description), it is 100% correct. As for the line you suggested he should say, is it all that different than what he actually said? 

 

"You kill it mostly like you would a high dragon. Clip it's wings first to ground it. Have soldiers keep the darkspawn from aiding it while the Wardens rush in and slay it."

I mean Blackwall could say that but he communicates the same idea when he says a Warden has to stab it. He just does so in a more blunt and reserved way. But that's how Blackwall is, he is reserved and direct.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Because his answer is incorrect. Now, that doesn't mean much to the Inquisitor because he or she doesn't know the truth of the matter, but the players who beat Origins do know it.

 

Also, he could have just said he wasn't allowed to talk about it.

 

Actually, Riordan assumed they had been told, but then he remembered that Duncan hadn't enough time with them before the battle started to actually explain it.

 

Exactly. Anders refused to tell you. Blackwall made something up to tell you.

 

The question of how you defeat the Blight is not the same question as how do you slay an archdemon. You end the Blight by slaying the Archdemon. You slay the Archdemon by sticking it with swords, especially a Grey Warden sword? Sorry, but no.

 

The answer is correct. How do you figure that it wasn't?

 

He could have said it was a secret, but he chose to give an answer that was factually correct without revealing sensitive information.

 

Yeah but it's the same situation. Duncan was supposed to tell them at Ostagar before they fought the archdemon. Alistair was a Warden for a year IIRC and he would have only learned that information when Duncan deemed it necessary.

[Patchwork]

The game forces you to carry the idiot ball a lot, you can't question Solas' knowledge about what caused the explosion, Vivienne always gets the last word and you can't do anything when Blackwall's story isn't adding up.

 

Admittedly I became suspicious of Blackwall because of what he said, how he said it and how he acted didn't match what I knew about the Wardens from playing the previous games but him not hearing the Calling is a huge tip off and I can't believe we couldn't talk to Hawke's friend about him.

[In Exile]

I don't think that's the same at all. Riordan says that unless it's a Grey Warden who does the slaying it won't be enough. Blackwall makes it sound like Wardens aren't necessary but should still be the ones to do it for posterity's sake.
 
That wasn't a flub. In fact, the Inquisitor can also state that the Joining is often fatal when Blackwall is sentenced to join the Wardens, and Blackwall will reply that if he dies in the Joining then it will be no less than what he deserves.

There's no way you can get the implication the Gws don't matter from what Blackwall says in that conversation. He literally says it has to be a GW sword. Otherwise he says what Riordan says: Klinng the AD isn't the hard part.

[Big Magnet]

Hmmm yeah I suspected he wasn't really a warden, but up untill the big reveal I thought he was something like a commoner who just wanted to be a hero, found a dead warden and took his armor. :3

[Archerwarden]

Yes, of course. From the first time meeting and talking to him in the Hinterlands I knew he wasn't a Warden. What he did and didn't say and how the real wardens acted confirmed my initial opinion. The why wasn't a surprise either.

(Now Reven did surprise me.)

edited

[Beomer]

I guessed something was amiss when he states GW facts wrong, like stuff about the Archdemon and him being in Fereldan during the Blight. 

[Dai Grepher]

I said that it is just a big darkspawn to the Wardens. For a Warden, they literally have to stab it until it dies.

 

The questions are absolutely analogous. How to end the blight? Kill the archdemon. How to kill the archdemon? Warden stabs it until it dies. The answers don't treat the act of killing an archdemon as particularly unique.

 

While I can accept Blackwall's answer being called clumsy (though I would say direct or to the point is a better description), it is 100% correct. As for the line you suggested he should say, is it all that different than what he actually said? 

 

"You kill it mostly like you would a high dragon. Clip it's wings first to ground it. Have soldiers keep the darkspawn from aiding it while the Wardens rush in and slay it."

I mean Blackwall could say that but he communicates the same idea when he says a Warden has to stab it. He just does so in a more blunt and reserved way. But that's how Blackwall is, he is reserved and direct.

 

Yeah but it isn't for the Wardens. I'm disagreeing with you on that. The Wardens see the archdemon as a special type of darkspawn that requires special tactics. Similar to Corypheus, or even the disciples.

 

It isn't just stabbing it until it dies. It's also about keeping non-wardens (including darkspawn) from getting the killing blow against it.

 

They aren't because one answers a question of how to make the darkspawn stop attacking, and the other answers a question of how to destroy that special type of darkspawn.

 

The difference is that it isn't as simple as sticking it with a bunch of swords. It's about wounding the beast to the brink of death, and then only using Grey Wardens to attack it and finish it off. And it has nothing to do with Grey Warden swords. It ties into the Joining, which Blackwall did not mention.

 

Blackwall never emphasizes that it must be a Grey Warden who slays it, and he doesn't outright refuse to talk about why that is. That is what makes the answer suspicious.

[Dai Grepher]

The answer is correct. How do you figure that it wasn't?

 

He could have said it was a secret, but he chose to give an answer that was factually correct without revealing sensitive information.

 

Yeah but it's the same situation. Duncan was supposed to tell them at Ostagar before they fought the archdemon. Alistair was a Warden for a year IIRC and he would have only learned that information when Duncan deemed it necessary.

 

Because a Grey Warden sword is nothing special. It's the Grey Warden's soul that is required.

 

According to Riordan, Duncan should have told them soon after the Joining, but personally I agree that such a secret should only be told to Wardens who have proven their loyalty. Blackwall had been a Grey Warden for years, so Blackwall should have known the secret. Thom Rainier didn't know the answer.

[myahele]

I thought that he most likely did a bad crime and joined the wardens as a means to escape, but as he grew older the regret became too much.

 

While I was right and not surprised about his crime, I WAS surprised that he's not a Blackwall, nor a Warden.

 

I always attributed his secrecy due to keeping Warden secrets. 

[In Exile]

Yeah but it isn't for the Wardens. I'm disagreeing with you on that. The Wardens see the archdemon as a special type of darkspawn that requires special tactics. Similar to Corypheus, or even the disciples.

It isn't just stabbing it until it dies. It's also about keeping non-wardens (including darkspawn) from getting the killing blow against it.

They aren't because one answers a question of how to make the darkspawn stop attacking, and the other answers a question of how to destroy that special type of darkspawn.

The difference is that it isn't as simple as sticking it with a bunch of swords. It's about wounding the beast to the brink of death, and then only using Grey Wardens to attack it and finish it off. And it has nothing to do with Grey Warden swords. It ties into the Joining, which Blackwall did not mention.

Blackwall never emphasizes that it must be a Grey Warden who slays it, and he doesn't outright refuse to talk about why that is. That is what makes the answer suspicious.

I don't know where you're getting this special tactics angle from exactly. I agree that as a matter of logic they need special tactics. But that's not what happens in DAO. Riordan leaps off a building in what amounts to his suicide and you (and Alistair/Loghain) just make it up as you go along after that part.

When you ask what to do if the GW appears all Duncan says is "leave it to us." No implications of special anti-AD tactics.

As to your last paragraph, he literally says "It just has to be a Grey Warden sword." That's saying that the final blow must be done by a GW. There's no other interpretation unless you somehow think he's implying GWs have magical AD killing swords they just hand out during a blight.

[In Exile]

Because a Grey Warden sword is nothing special. It's the Grey Warden's soul that is required.

According to Riordan, Duncan should have told them soon after the Joining, but personally I agree that such a secret should only be told to Wardens who have proven their loyalty. Blackwall had been a Grey Warden for years, so Blackwall should have known the secret. Thom Rainier didn't know the answer.

Holy ... You think he literally meant sword? That's absurd. Dying by someone's blade is just a fanciful way of saying that person will kill you. He's clearly not implying GWs have magic swords.

[Exile Isan]

I became suspicious of him when my Levallan asked him point blank if he was hearing the Calling and he said no. I mean that's not something he would be immune to, because you know the taint...

 

I think that's my main problem with Blackwall's revelation is that we played a Warden so we, the player, know what they're all about. So a good portion of us saw it coming. Bioware could have been a little more subtle in their clues maybe. I don't know. It's kinda unfortunate because makes us feel like our characters are stupid, even though they're not, because they don't have the benefit of having played DA:O. 

 

And I admit that I'm disappointed that he wasn't really a Warden. I wanted a Warden companion. *pouts*

[In Exile]

I became suspicious of him when my Levallan asked him point blank if he was hearing the Calling and he said no. I mean that's not something he would be immune to, because you know the taint...

I think that's my main problem with Blackwall's revelation is that we played a Warden so we, the player, know what they're all about. So a good portion of us saw it coming. Bioware could have been a little more subtle in their clues maybe. I don't know. It's kinda unfortunate because makes us feel like our characters are stupid, even though they're not, because they don't have the benefit of having played DA:O.

And I admit that I'm disappointed that he wasn't really a Warden. I wanted a Warden companion. *pouts*

Keep in mind not all DAI players necessarily played DAO. Beyond that I don't think Bioware should really consider player metaknowledge but rather the world's verisimilitude.

[Dai Grepher]

There's no way you can get the implication the Gws don't matter from what Blackwall says in that conversation. He literally says it has to be a GW sword. Otherwise he says what Riordan says: Klinng the AD isn't the hard part.

 

Riordan says the taint is involved. The Archdemon may be slain as any other darkspawn, but should any other that a Grey Warden do the slaying, it will not be enough. That isn't the same as saying a Grey Warden sword is needed. When asked if it can really be as simple as sticking it with swords, Blackwall says it is, it just has to be a Grey Warden sword.
 

[Dr. rotinaj]

Riordan says the taint is involved. The Archdemon may be slain as any other darkspawn, but should any other that a Grey Warden do the slaying, it will not be enough. That isn't the same as saying a Grey Warden sword is needed. When asked if it can really be as simple as sticking it with swords, Blackwall says it is, it just has to be a Grey Warden sword.
 

 

And it technically is as simple as a Grey Warden sticking it with swords. If Blackwall had just said sticking it with swords was sufficient then I would have been instantly suspicious. But he made the necessary distinction by saying that a Warden needed to deliver the killing blow.

 

And when Riordan said that the taint is involved, he was giving instructions to two subordinate Wardens that might need to kill the archdemon. So he educated them on the magic involved. Blackwall was speaking to an outsider, and all the outsider needed to know was that when the time comes to stab an archdemon, it needs to be a Warden holding the sword.

[Exile Isan]

Keep in mind not all DAI players necessarily played DAO. Beyond that I don't think Bioware should really consider player metaknowledge but rather the world's verisimilitude.

 

True, but I bet the majority of people that suspected he wasn't really a Warden did play DA:O. Maybe, but I hate knowing more than my PC does although it not as bad with Blackwall (because Warden's are a secretive bunch) as it was with Tela Vasir, I'm annoyed by that every time I play Lair of the Shadow Broker. 

[In Exile]

True, but I bet the majority of people that suspected he wasn't really a Warden did play DA:O. Maybe, but I hate knowing more than my PC does although it not as bad with Blackwall (because Warden's are a secretive bunch) as it was with Tela Vasir, I'm annoyed by that every time I play Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Blackwall is not so vague or dishonest to disqualify himself as a Warden.

I've been replaying DAI and I got to the scene where we meet the Warden companion. In spoilers:

Spoiler

Stroud says that the AD "can survive wounds that seem fatal" when he talks about his suspicion Hawke might not have killed Corypheus. We know that's outright untrue.

[CronoDragoon]

In general I think BioWare did a good job of setting up a lot of double meanings in the foreshadowing with Blackwall. We clearly knew he had some dark history, but things such as the Terror Demon declaring Blackwall is "nothing like a Warden" could be seen as him not actually being a Warden, not being honorable or virtuous in the way Blackwall usually speaks of Wardens, or both. Since he presents himself as a Warden, it's easy to accept this at face value and go with Possibility 2, though subsequent playthroughs really reinforce Possibility 3.

[Zikade]

Some of his dialogue made me suspicious yes since he seemed to be hiding something about his past, but I never really suspected he was posing as a Warden. The criminal past wasn't a surprise but the identity theft was. Though when the fake calling happened with it apparently having no effect on him, I was like "Wat?" but I just thought it was lazy writing or something in order to keep Blackwall as your fully functional companion =P. 

 

On my second playthrough I have really been paying attention to all the hints he has been dropping. Nicely played BioWare.

[Stormghost]

I was a bit suspicious about why he was on his own when we meet him, but I didn't doubt he was Blackwall.

 

In fact, in my second playthrough I forgot about it all, so I was surprised all over again.