66 réponses à ce sujet

[jedidotflow]

Mythal appears and then it's on to kill Cory and then it's game over. The so-called "weight" could still be felt in a post-game DLC or sequel. DAI is already finished so what you're asking for will not be implemented.

You should also keep in mind that most Theodosians are Andastreans so they probably will dismiss this as "powerful demon from the Fade that got loose thanks to the hole in the sky, which the Herald of Andraste sealed, thank the Maker!"

As to the Dalish, they'd probably be offended at the thought of some "shem" or "shem lover" walking around saying that they met Mythal--and she's a shem to boot!

If Jesus came down from Heaven and he was Black or Chinese, most would dismiss him as a Satanic lie.

[jedidotflow]

Oops.

[leaguer of one]

Mythal appears and then it's on to kill Cory and then it's game over. The so-called "weight" could still be felt in a post-game DLC or sequel. DAI is already finished so what you're asking for will not be implemented.

You should also keep in mind that most Theodosians are Andastreans so they probably will dismiss this as "powerful demon from the Fade that got loose thanks to the hole in the sky, which the Herald of Andraste sealed, thank the Maker!"

As to the Dalish, they'd probably be offended at the thought of some "shem" or "shem lover" walking around saying that they met Mythal--and she's a shem to boot!

If Jesus came down from Heaven and he was Black or Chinese, most would dismiss him as a Satanic lie.

Does no one  note that it's just 2 people who was told about this and those 2 people never told any one else?

[leaguer of one]

It seems my point is being dodged like it is in real life by people with opposing beliefs. 

 

Christian philosophy ignores the existence of Chinese philosophy in the western world for the most part. So much so that in the south I hear people regularly still make jokes about Chinese secrets and refer to their "truth's" as mysticism. In this example and similarly drawn description people here as fans and players refer to the Maker as the greatest reveal. What if you play as an elf? Mythal being not only real but alive and kicking, actively moving about would be absolutely huge! 

 

The idea that THE EARS from point 1 of my original post is that people would find out. Sera and her little people for instance. Elves in the kitchen overhearing this talk would absolutely lose it! All of their suffering, all of their ignored history has WEIGHT to it. The concept of God, capitol G is being handled like it wouldn't matter because one side would simply not care about it. I took the time to explain how two soldiers, regular Joes would react under a hint of that reality. It would be like fighting in Afganistan as a Christian only to have your leader confronted and put in line by Mohammad or some other prophet.

 

No one has yet even challenged the situation with Morrigan either. Everyone is doing exactly what I expected and going right to their 'head-cannons'.More was done in this game to discredit religion, the status of religious authority and it's truths while leading the main character into a false role as one potentially. And people line up to die for the Inquisition. That's exactly what I'm talking about. People line up to die for their God. Their Truth is more important than the reality. Let something take that truth and turn it on it's ear and see who becomes invigorated by it.

 

This didn't happen. And frankly it's insulting to see the TLDR in a thread like that, it should be an instant flag to be honest! You are in a game forum where some of the strongest content of the game is in literature only. The game is 18 or older for mature content and it's a struggle to find decent thoughtful conversation. "But that's the internetz-you're doing it wrong old timer!" 

 

Mythal revealed herself to your entire family in Dragons Age 2 in this new sense. How does this keep happening? Each game raises the player to a new sense of awareness while further burying the lore in the sand. True is true except for you! We keep making head cannons and excuses for what seem to be a real absence of a consistent plan or timeline in a fictional game. It isn't living breathing dogmatic truth like we live with but people still manage to play and draw a delusional line in the head cannon states of each playthrough and argue away honest questions.

 

The WEIGHT of a God is absent. Everything that happens in the story either gives authority to the lore or it rewrites the lore. Too many times this is being done-moving backward and not forward. It's LOST with Dragons. Afraid to confront something like this. I feel the writer's are afraid to notch the bow on it. They will tell you a story about multiple points of sexuality, the discrimination and destruction of entire races but they won't commit to it truthfully. It's dishonest story-telling; races and mature content handled just for ratings. As a commenter here said-the lore has magic and that changes the game but it doesn't remove the realism they struggle to maintain in the soap opera.

 

Weight! Will Dragon Age continue to tell big stories and not show them? Will Dragon Age confront the very real idea that the Age will come to a close? Will Dragon Age commit to some core tenants and adhere to them? Or continue to play dollhouse adventure-time with great concepts at the expense of a narrowing thoughtful audience?

 

TLDR: Find a thread with pictures.  

Op...Your argument is mute because Flemeth was only revealed to 2 people who told no one else. How would this change any thing if no one spreads the info on it?

[Madmoe77]

Morrigan's reaction made sense to me, actually, in that she's never believed in gods. She says it herself in the Temple, that more  likely than anything the Elvhen Gods were likely just super powerful Elves or political leaders. That and Morrigan has lived a pretty fantastic life herself - her son bears the soul of an old god if you did the ritual. I don't think she gets surprised that often. She had a similair reaction to learning her mother wanted to steal her body. She adjusted and thought about it and made a plan, because that's what Morrigan does. She was waaay more invested in potentially losing Kieran, and to me that made sense for her.

 

Also:

 

 

 

 

Yes, actually. The entire world was watching the Conclave, and it felt the destruction of Andraste's Tomb and the Divine very keenly. Not to mention the huge hole torn into the skyline. So when your PC falls out of said hole with super powers? And then stops the aforementioned hole from tearing apart reality? Yeah, people are going to be paying attention. The Quizzy may not have revealed themselves, but circumstance and the others who survived the Conclave were more than happy to do it for them.

 

Mythal's reveal lacked bystanders. And it definitely lacked bystanders who wanted to share what they saw. With the Quizzy, Leliana, Cassandra and co. used the rumors, helped encourage them, to boost the Inquisition's standing and because they were inclined to believe them themselves. The whispers were encouraged to grow into a rallying cry. But this? Everyone who knows about seems inclined to keep the matter quiet. What would be the point?

 

Shall we tell the Dalish their Goddess has been around all this time, the All Mother, but she has little to no interest in them and doesn't plan on revealing herself to them anytime soon? Would the Dalish even believe that, especially coming from the Chantry-based Inquisition?

 

I crossed out some of that. Keiran is not essential and not in every playthrough-sadly because his tiny commentary is as potent as the Catalyst in ME3 . However Mythal's reveal is in all. Flemeth/Mythal also openly stated she would not have taken Morrigan if unwilling, saying so much as to that she would be surprised if she didn't accept eventually. 

 

Again this is head cannon talk. Morrigan literally suggested making her unborn child an Old God recipient yet the writer's now try and soften that. If the Morrigan of DAO knew she was a demi-god and accepting Mythal would give her power/knowledge she would by character take that into great consideration. 

 

As for the bystanders-they are everywhere! Every wall in Skyhold is broken and decaying. In one possible scenario a spy tries to assassinate Josephine in the very access room to the the long wide open hall to the planning chambers of the Inquisitions core. At one time Hawke and Varric are just hanging around in that hall. Varric, prized character he is gave access to red lyrium to a guild that obviously couldn't contain it. Secrets aren't exactly a commodity in this game. We are told so but they are certainly not kept forbidden. Ask Sera what would be the point? Ask a loyal Qun IronBull what the value of that information would be? Don't ask me. I can't possibly answer why something so grand would be the one thing the Inquisition could actually contain and control.

 

Why shouldn't the Dalish learn something like this? How could a Dalish Inquisitor hold such a thing from them? We have no problem stripping the Hakkonites of their God.  

 

If the world saw the Conclave, then the world also saw the endgame events. Floating castles and an immensely reopened source rift is kind of a draw! People would see it. They would see the Inquisitor coming down with no enemy remains to be found above. After the debris came crashing back to earth that is.

 

To assume that people in Thedas would have no desire or want to know that their lives would or could ever be safe again from such an event wouldn't cause the curious or the invested enemies both political and real to look further into it? Again I am asking only that some critical thinking be given to the magnitude of such an event. The Weight is absent. In a game of "power" struggles in shadow and at court-Gods would be a mighty card to play.    

[Madmoe77]

Mythal appears and then it's on to kill Cory and then it's game over. The so-called "weight" could still be felt in a post-game DLC or sequel. DAI is already finished so what you're asking for will not be implemented.

You should also keep in mind that most Theodosians are Andastreans so they probably will dismiss this as "powerful demon from the Fade that got loose thanks to the hole in the sky, which the Herald of Andraste sealed, thank the Maker!"

As to the Dalish, they'd probably be offended at the thought of some "shem" or "shem lover" walking around saying that they met Mythal--and she's a shem to boot!

If Jesus came down from Heaven and he was Black or Chinese, most would dismiss him as a Satanic lie.

 

And in your last line you have made my point concrete! Thank you. The revelation of a God would cause a unique stir even if rejecting the idea was for some bigoted reason. The statement also holds true in the reverse. Some would completely cling to this revelation and begin their own movement. Just as people showered the Inquisitor with "Herald, Chosen, Glowy-hand" so would a large portion of ethno-connected "bystanders" (as used earlier in another post). In this case and angry uprooted, soon to be unified Dalish angry that this news was kept from them by Shems (as you say) to protect their status quo. 

 

So inadvertently you already understand my point. But like I said before; the forumite community and largely most players of this game have been conditioned to be Andrastrian even if they hadn't noticed. Because this is directly connected to the world view they already possess. Only it is so potent that it is placing the player into a permanent suspension of critical thought along with their new belief. Players have trouble criticizing the view made forefront. There is no Weight.    

 

Another poster in a another topic wanted to be evil. The Warden could be a tyrant and still be the Hero of Ferelden games later with no hate to bury them or carry them over a cliff. That is no Weight. Revealing a much talked about, written about, reoccurring character as a God without reaction enmasse has no Weight. If Jesus rose again tomorrow as Oprah Winfrey in a reveal; the world would respond. Even if it took rumor and a large scale war with a demonic hole in the sky to draw attention to it. 

[Madmoe77]

Op...Your argument is mute because Flemeth was only revealed to 2 people who told no one else. How would this change any thing if no one spreads the info on it?

 

 

That would be moot. And no, no it isn't. You assume 2 people knew what happened. Abelas and many other ancient elves just walked right out of the temple of Mythal and into whatever adventure they could have. Your party goes with you to the guardian's cove to gain the support of the dragon should you drink from the well. Your entire party is seen fleeing with you through an Eluvian from this very temple and none of them would question why? Either being able to suspend your disbelief is a super power or you're just wanting it to remain secret in a head cannon. Have you played telephone one time? 

 

People talk. Especially about Gods. 

[Lethaya]

And you assume Abelas lived, let alone left the Temple. Who's to say he didn't just go back to sleep?

 

I crossed out some of that. Keiran is not essential and not in every playthrough-sadly because his tiny commentary is as potent as the Catalyst in ME3 . However Mythal's reveal is in all. Flemeth/Mythal also openly stated she would not have taken Morrigan if unwilling, saying so much as to that she would be surprised if she didn't accept eventually. 

 

Again this is head cannon talk. Morrigan literally suggested making her unborn child an Old God recipient yet the writer's now try and soften that. If the Morrigan of DAO knew she was a demi-god and accepting Mythal would give her power/knowledge she would by character take that into great consideration.

 

And in all situations, Morrigan has still lead an extraordinary life. Whether the ritual was accomplished or no, it is the entire reason she joins your Warden. She wants to have a child with an old gods soul and accepts it as open possibility, whether it occurs or not. And I mentioned her reaction to Flemeth's Grimoire as a sign of her personality, which it is, again, whether it occurs in your save file or not. It goes to show that she is adjustable and takes things in stride, especially when it comes to her mother.

 

And would she, when one, she finds it difficult to trust anything her mother tells her, and two, doing so would require allowing her mother to possess her? XD Giving Mythal to Morrigan would basically be such, a melding of her mother (who has stated she and Mythal are basically inseparable at this point) and Mythal with herself. I can't really blame her for being wary of that.

 

And how is she a demi-god exactly? Especially if she doesn't even believe the Pantheon were really gods?

 

And for the record, all of this is basically head canon talk. XD Anything theorizing is. Point being?
 

 

As for the bystanders-they are everywhere! Every wall in Skyhold is broken and decaying. In one possible scenario a spy tries to assassinate Josephine in the very access room to the the long wide open hall to the planning chambers of the Inquisitions core. At one time Hawke and Varric are just hanging around in that hall. Varric, prized character he is gave access to red lyrium to a guild that obviously couldn't contain it. Secrets aren't exactly a commodity in this game. We are told so but they are certainly not kept forbidden. Ask Sera what would be the point? Ask a loyal Qun IronBull what the value of that information would be? Don't ask me. I can't possibly answer why something so grand would be the one thing the Inquisition could actually contain and control.

 

 

In the Mythal situation? They are not. Two (maybe three) people encountered Mythal in the Fade, in a place were there are no human bystanders. Those two people told no one of what happened so far as I can recall. What you learn there is ultimately chalked up to the powers of the Well, no?

 

On Sera - finding immortal elves didn't concern her, all it did was infuriate her even more. This would be that. Again. She even said, what, that the Elves worshiped demons? Meaning she acknowledges they worshiped SOMETHING tangible. She just doesn't trust that it was something divine. I doubt she would think differently. Mythal would just be a demon possessing Flemeth. And thinking that might not be wrong, either! Sera doesn't really concern herself with religion anyway. As she says multiple times, she's there for the little people and to get the world normal again.

 

Loyal Qunari Iron Bull is a possibility, sure, but not the end all - he could also wind up a Tal-Vashoth. And I don't think he cares much for religion. The Qun is more about the now than ancient history. Again, seems rather pointless honestly. XD

 

They can contain and control it because two people very capable of keeping secrets are the only ones initially aware, and they have little to no obvious motivations to spread that information around. It makes sense.

 

 

Why shouldn't the Dalish learn something like this? How could a Dalish Inquisitor hold such a thing from them? We have no problem stripping the Hakkonites of their God.  

 

If the world saw the Conclave, then the world also saw the endgame events. Floating castles and an immensely reopened source rift is kind of a draw! People would see it. They would see the Inquisitor coming down with no enemy remains to be found above. After the debris came crashing back to earth that is.

 

 

Like I said, why would the Dalish believe your Inquisitor? An agent of the Chantry, who abandoned the clans to do things like play the Game in Orlais and build a mostly Andrastian army? Is arguing with the Keepers of the Thedas a priority when the world is at stake? We already know the Dalish have rejected truth before because it didn't fit the mold they've learned to accept, a mold which is almost entirely misconstrued at this point. As for Hakon, wouldn't know, haven't played the DLC. It's kind of locked content right now given the timed exclusivity. xD

 

And it did? But killing Corypheus has far more to do with Andraste than Mythal to the casual observer. I don't see the point here? People already acknowledge both the Inquisitor and Cory, yes?

 

 

To assume that people in Thedas would have no desire or want to know that their lives would or could ever be safe again from such an event wouldn't cause the curious or the invested enemies both political and real to look further into it? Again I am asking only that some critical thinking be given to the magnitude of such an event. The Weight is absent. In a game of "power" struggles in shadow and at court-Gods would be a mighty card to play.  

 

 

Their lives are never safe. They never have been. Thedas is a mess. XD Nothing has changed, actually. Flemeth has been a figure for literal ages now, as has Mythal. Why is it that you assume the Inquisitor, a controversial Andrastian figure, coming out and saying they met an Elven God's host would be taken completely at face value by 99.9% of Thedas's value and not cause a bunch of problems that wouldn't otherwise exist?

 

I thought Mythal's reveal was great. I find the Elven Pantheon incredibly interesting. I also don't think they're actually gods (Solas says as much multiple times) in the normal sense, and that her reveal isn't that huge a game changer overall, at least in terms of the Inquisition. Why?

 

 

Qunari don't really have gods, they're more a structural, society based religion. If anything they worship dragons, buuut as Bull proves, they're still more than willing to kill them. Eh?

 

Elves - you'd tell them that not only were all their gods sealed away, that the god left chose a human host with human descendants, that Mythal has been around for centuries and not lifted a finger to help them, that she was murdered as the elves destroyed their own people, and that Fen'Harel was her buddy and not her murderer, aaand they would just accept that? XD That literally challenges everything they believe, and its all coming from the testimony of one person. They would think you insane at best.

 

Humans - Mythal being real doesn't disprove anything the humans believe, not the Andrastian faith or even the Old Gods. Originally under the Old Gods, for instance, the Creator existed. The idea was there was a god that created the earth, and the Old Gods took up his mantle so to speak after he ditched it. The Elven pantheon aren't credited with creating the world, either. You can have the Maker and the rest of the super powerful beings that stepped up to the plate and rule in the void left by an absent god. She disproves nothing so far as humanity is concerned. Then you have the political issues such a reveal could cause with elven culture already being an issue... messy.

 

Dwarves care about Paragons, their ancestors, the Stone, and lyrium. None of that changes if Mythal exists. XD

 

 

Seems pointless. Well, maybe not pointless. But not all Inquisitors have a reason to care. The Dalish ones do, but their efforts would likely not only be futile, and harm their standing in the eyes of their people, but harm the Inquisition. Some battles you cannot win.

 

 

... Ah, welp. Longest post I've made on this forum, to be sure. Whoops! Sorry for all the paragraphs, casual thread scrollers. XD

[Madmoe77]

This thread reminds me of one of those new age conspiracy theory websites...

 

Please explain. Your screen name literally is another word for butt, big butt and you sling such a slight. Such a thing could not remain secret. A big butt however does have Weight. Knowledge of sights unexplored could remain unknown though. 

 

Have you been to these sites? I'm curious what a big butt would find at one. 

[Madmoe77]

And you assume Abelas lived, let alone left the Temple. Who's to say he didn't just go back to sleep?

 

 

And in all situations, Morrigan has still lead an extraordinary life. Whether the ritual was accomplished or no, it is the entire reason she joins your Warden. She wants to have a child with an old gods soul and accepts it as open possibility, whether it occurs or not. And I mentioned her reaction to Flemeth's Grimoire as a sign of her personality, which it is, again, whether it occurs in your save file or not. It goes to show that she is adjustable and takes things in stride, especially when it comes to her mother.

 

And would she, when one, she finds it difficult to trust anything her mother tells her, and two, doing so would require allowing her mother to possess her? XD Giving Mythal to Morrigan would basically be such, a melding of her mother (who has stated she and Mythal are basically inseparable at this point) and Mythal with herself. I can't really blame her for being wary of that.

 

And how is she a demi-god exactly? Especially if she doesn't even believe the Pantheon were really gods?
 

 

 

 

In the Mythal situation? They are not. Two (maybe three) people encountered Mythal in the Fade, in a place were there are no human bystanders. Those two people told no one of what happened so far as I can recall. What you learn there is ultimately chalked up to the powers of the Well, no?

 

On Sera - finding immortal elves didn't concern her, all it did was infuriate her even more. This would be that. Again. She even said, what, that the Elves worshiped demons? Meaning she acknowledges they worshiped SOMETHING tangible. She just doesn't trust that it was something divine. I doubt she would think differently. Mythal would just be a demon possessing Flemeth. And thinking that might not be wrong, either! Sera doesn't really concern herself with religion anyway. As she says multiple times, she's there for the little people and to get the world normal again.

 

Loyal Qunari Iron Bull is a possibility, sure, but not the end all - he could also wind up a Tal-Vashoth. And I don't think he cares much for religion. The Qun is more about the now than ancient history. Again, seems rather pointless honestly. XD

 

They can contain and control it because two people very capable of keeping secrets are the only ones initially aware, and they have little to no obvious motivations to spread that information around. It makes sense.

 

 

 

 

Like I said, why would the Dalish believe your Inquisitor? An agent of the Chantry, who abandoned the clans to do things like play the Game in Orlais and build a mostly Andrastian army? Is arguing with the Keepers of the Thedas a priority when the world is at stake? We already know the Dalish have rejected truth before because it didn't fit the mold they've learned to accept, a mold which is almost entirely misconstrued at this point. As for Hakon, wouldn't know, haven't played the DLC. It's kind of locked content right now given the timed exclusivity. xD

 

And it did? But killing Corypheus has far more to do with Andraste than Mythal to the casual observer. I don't see the point here? People already acknowledge both the Inquisitor and Cory, yes?

 

 

 

 

Their lives are never safe. They never have been. Thedas is a mess. XD Nothing has changed, actually. Flemeth has been a figure for literal ages now, as has Mythal. Why is it that you assume the Inquisitor, a controversial Andrastian figure, coming out and saying they met an Elven God's host would be taken completely at face value by 99.9% of Thedas's value and not cause a bunch of problems that wouldn't otherwise exist?

 

I thought Mythal's reveal was great. I find the Elven Pantheon incredibly interesting. I also don't think they're actually gods (Solas says as much multiple times) in the normal sense, and that her reveal isn't that huge a game changer overall, at least in terms of the Inquisition. Why?

 

 

Qunari don't really have gods, they're more a structural, society based religion. If anything they worship dragons, buuut as Bull proves, they're still more than willing to kill them. Eh?

 

Elves - you'd tell them that not only were all their gods sealed away, that the god left chose a human host with human descendants, that Mythal has been around for centuries and not lifted a finger to help them, that she was murdered as the elves destroyed their own people, and that Fen'Harel was her buddy and not her murderer, aaand they would just accept that? XD That literally challenges everything they believe, and its all coming from the testimony of one person. They would think you insane at best.

 

Humans - Mythal being real doesn't disprove anything the humans believe, not the Andrastian faith or even the Old Gods. Originally under the Old Gods, for instance, the Creator existed. The idea was there was a god that created the earth, and the Old Gods took up his mantle so to speak after he ditched it. The Elven pantheon aren't credited with creating the world, either. You can have the Maker and the rest of the super powerful beings that stepped up to the plate and rule in the void left by an absent god. She disproves nothing so far as humanity is concerned. Then you have the political issues such a reveal could cause with elven culture already being an issue... messy.

 

Dwarves care about Paragons, their ancestors, the Stone, and lyrium. None of that changes if Mythal exists. XD

 

 

Seems pointless. Well, maybe not pointless. But not all Inquisitors have a reason to care. The Dalish ones do, but their efforts would likely not only be futile, and harm their standing in the eyes of their people, but harm the Inquisition. Some battles you cannot win.

 

 

... Ah, welp. Longest post I've made on this forum, to be sure. Whoops! Sorry for all the paragraphs, casual thread scrollers. XD

 

I'm glad you feel that way. 

 

Your head-cannon Morrigan would just keep it a secret. Mine would have an old god-baby to give her an edge without thought of the fetus. Since I am clearly insane thinking the Dalish would respond to me with anything other than detest. Even though in game you can gain all their trust from chores. 

 

Hercules is also half-god; could he argue himself out that truth in his legend? Morrigan can put her fingers in her ears and scream like a child as Flemeth revealed it and it would not change. 

 

What Weight does the word God have in this story then? Why use it? You could very well have described this in many ways as listed in this thread rebutting me with others. 

 

The writers used the word because of the Weight it has in our lives and our minds. If not they could have made up something with the rest of the Elven words. In the sense that everyone arguing against my post has used, The Maker could be a frog in a pond in the middle of a hole in some crater and ribbit something into reality and it would suffice. All of the other pantheon don't have to be either. Her reveal is pointless and moot. It has no Weight. I keep highlighting the word because God and weight seems to be lost in translation or something. 

 

"Talk about when a staff becomes a walking stick! Sheesh"

 

"Don't screw with my cannon buddy. I'm a crippled mage with a multi-purposeful poking thing!"    

[Lethaya]

Your head-cannon Morrigan would just keep it a secret. Mine would have an old god-baby to give her an edge without thought of the fetus. Since I am clearly insane thinking the Dalish would respond to me with anything other than detest. Even though in game you can gain all their trust from chores.

 

Head canoning how? Vague statements are vaaague. And of course she had her baby for reasons tied to, yes, an edge, and preserving history. She says as much in the game. She values preserving the types of things that are disappearing in Thedas, after all, like the Well. And she also tells Flemeth that even though that was the case upon conception, he is more to her in DA:I. He is her child. But this is going off topic, so I digress.

 

Morrigan keeps many things secret. Is thinking that headcanoning, then? I would have thought it deductive reasoning based on in game experience! Oh dear.

 

You can gain the trust of one Keeper in game with chores. One. Who initially distrusts you even if you're Dalish because of your position. And even when you have his trust, I don't think he would grovel before you if you asked him to. He's just okay with a clansman joining your cause. He doesn't join himself.

 

Dalish clans vary quite a lot, too. I mean, Fen'Harel's teeth is just... lovely. XD Assuming they would be unified on anything, on your Inquisitor especially, who came from a more progressive clan and joined Chantry forces, and who could have been mislead even if they DO trust you, who they don't consider holy in any shape or form... well, the Dalish just aren't that consistent. No group of people is.

 

Hercules is also half-god; could he argue himself out that truth in his legend? Morrigan can put her fingers in her ears and scream like a child as Flemeth revealed it and it would not change.

 

And I think that's my main issue with your point of view on this topic. You're treating the mythos of Thedas like real world religions, with your own pre-concieved notion of what a religion, and a god, is. But that doesn't have to be the case, does it? And if it isn't, is that really such a bad thing?

 

We don't know Mythal is a god like Zeus was, or that godhood is something genetic and not something earned like a title or position. She could have been a variety of things. A particularly ancient elf, a bearer of one of the Orbs, an Elvhen Paragon or the matriarch of some kind of Royal family. And before you throw this out thanks to headcanoning, the main reason I even consider these options is, one, religions in Thedas are very often not what we expect them to be, two, Solas says multiple times the Elven gods were not actually gods, and three, Morrigan suggests they were political leaders or something similar and questions their supposed godhood as well. Thus, if the game throws out these possibilities, I'll be open to them.

 

Also? Even if it were genetic, Morrigan is the daughter of Flemeth. Not Mythal. Mythal happens to be sharing Flemeth's body, but last I checked Flemeth is still human, not an elf. A very interesting and strangely powerful human, but still. If Anders had a child, would the child be half Justice spirit? XD

 

Nothing wrong with using real world logic, though, so long as you don't turn it into a pair of blinders.

 

What Weight does the word God have in this story then? Why use it? You could very well have described this in many ways as listed in this thread rebutting me with others.

 

Exactly! That's the question, isn't it? I'll just throw this out here, though:

 

"I believe the elven gods existed, as did the old gods of Tevinter. But I do not think any of them were gods, unless you expand the definition of the word to the point of absurdity. I appreciate the idea of your Maker, a god that does not need to prove his power. I wish more such gods felt the same."
 

"I don't believe they were gods, no, but I believe that they existed! Something existed to start the legends! If not gods, then mages, or spirits, or something we've never seen."

 

Thaaanks, Solas!

 

Ahem. But anyways, just because someone calls you a God doesn't make you one, anymore than people assuming the Herald was delivered from the Fade by Andraste herself made it so. People, and what they believe to be true, are not infallible.

 

The writers used the word because of the Weight it has in our lives and our minds. If not they could have made up something with the rest of the Elven words. In the sense that everyone arguing against my post has used, The Maker could be a frog in a pond in the middle of a hole in some crater and ribbit something into reality and it would suffice. All of the other pantheon don't have to be either. Her reveal is pointless and moot. It has no Weight. I keep highlighting the word because God and weight seems to be lost in translation or something.

 

Orrr because in the lore, that's what they have become over time. And thus, revealing them as not so becomes a twist. Not everything the writers... well, wrote, was true after that fact for instance. Examples? Since DA:O we've heard the Pantheon was locked away by the Dread Wolf as a prank of epic proportions, and that the Dread Wolf rolls around in the Fade to this day giggling with glee over the entire affair. Buuut in DA:I we find out that actually, Mythal was murdered, the Dread Wolf wasn't responsible, and Solas is anything but giddy. Makes Varric's nickname for him a bit more amusing, though, doesn't it?

 

It has weight, though, I think. It wasn't pointless from a storytelling perspective, really, and as we've yet to reach the end of the series, I find it a bit silly to chalk anything up as pointless just yet. Perhaps just because I've been lore obsessed, but! Maybe not a weight the people of Thedas can perceive or come to accept yet. But that ending... they're definitely going somewhere with this. Should be interesting! Or, well. I certainly hope it will be at least. XD

 

By the same logic, you could have called the Ritual pointless after DA:O's release. An Old God was saved and no one reacted or knew about it! Morrigan just wanders off no matter what you do! But it wasn't pointless. It affected your ending and the characters involved, the lore and world states of future installments.

 

You want a legitimate god, look to the Maker like the rest of Thedas, nearly. I don't think we'll be getting any reveals about him any time soon, so you should be fine. ;D And as for him being a frog, well if you buy into the Chant, he's a bit more involved than that. Just ah. Temperamental? Certain to be fun at parties?

[Dai Grepher]

I think the weight of the Gods will be measured in stone. eg. Solas is probably 10 stone. Sandal is immeasurable.

 

Load limit reached. Mass will have an effect.

[Gervaise]

The biggest problem I had with the Mythal reveal was that the Inquisitor, especially an elven Inquisitor, if on good terms with Solas, which I was, didn't immediately run round and say to him "Guess who I've just met?"   But then I was also disappointed that my elven Inquisitor couldn't discuss the fact with Solas that Abelas recognised him as one of "His People" but not me.   Also how Solas suddenly seemed to know so much about the elven gods as revealed in the Temple but every time I asked him to share what he knew about the past, nothing about elven history ever came up.  So the problem there has not so much to do with gods as making the Inquisitor appear stupid and not enquiring enough.   If you are not in a romance with Solas and so limited by picking the heart icon, it is clear pretty early on that he is being evasive and selective with the truths he imparts to you.   

 

It does seem odd that the Inquisitor wouldn't discuss the implications of meeting Mythal with the team considering they have been trying to work out how to kill Corypheus, who had been able to cheat death not once but twice to our knowledge.    Mythal was believed dead by her own followers, although Abelas does admit that he wonders if a god can truly die.   Nevertheless the fact that Mythal was murdered but survived down to the present would appear to be significant to the task at hand.    However, we continue to proceed whilst totally ignoring that fact and also that Morrigan at least knows something about how Grey Wardens kill archdemons which is not known by the wider population.   Ignoring non disclosure of important information seems a feature of the Inquisitor.

 

Sera's reaction to the  Temple also comes across as odd.    She implies you are stupid for believing in what you are told there.  It doesn't seem foolish to me, believing that what Abelas tells you and what you see in the Temple is true; namely there were beings worshipped as gods by the ancient elves, they did exist but not the same entities as the Dalish believe in even if they had he same names.   Do you believe these creatures are really gods or worthy of being worshipped is another question entirely.   Yet that is what she seems to think my reaction is when I say I believe it is true.     This would seem to imply that being Herald of Andraste should make me as closed minded and incapable of listening to what people tell me as much of the Chantry is.

 

Jaws of Hakkon throws a fair bit of light on the nature of the beings that are viewed as gods in Thedas.   It is why I feel it should only be playable post main game because otherwise, once again, you'd think what is discovered should be a matter for discussion by the team.       We never get to talk to them about what is revealed there.   So I don't feel the problem is one limited to finding out about gods but that the team simply don't communicate as you would think they would.

[leaguer of one]

That would be moot. And no, no it isn't. You assume 2 people knew what happened. Abelas and many other ancient elves just walked right out of the temple of Mythal and into whatever adventure they could have. Your party goes with you to the guardian's cove to gain the support of the dragon should you drink from the well. Your entire party is seen fleeing with you through an Eluvian from this very temple and none of them would question why? Either being able to suspend your disbelief is a super power or you're just wanting it to remain secret in a head cannon. Have you played telephone one time? 

 

People talk. Especially about Gods. 

1. None of the soldier understood what they saw.

2. Finding an elven temple is not going to change the view of people in the chantry. Like tevintor, the chanrty took alot of knowledge for elven ruins as well with no change to their thought to religion.

3.Everything seen in the temple moralized the elven gods. We had to people there argue that they were never gods in the first place. One an elf and the other the witch of the wilds. How do you think something like that is going to change there veiw on religion?

4. And those are the ancient elves who don't give a crap about the modern world, of couse they would just leave with out saying anything to any. They only care about duty and themselves. And anyone in the army that knows about how old they are will just gloss it over as "super old power magic" that lets them live so long.

 

Sorry but what is seen in the arbor wilds is not going to change the view of religion in the chantry or the anyone else outside of the dalish if they believe it. An ancient elves temple found is not going to change anything because they are all over the place. Ancient elves won't ether because it's just going to be glossed over as magic, which is a common theme of the world, and these elves want nothing to do with the modern world. And the entire experience humanize the elven gods because it show they were not really god and they can die.

So how is that going to shock the world foundation of religion out side of the dalish?

 

that's not a god reveal, that's a god discredit.

[leaguer of one]

I went to these sites, in search of answers. I believe there is an entire colony of advanced extra-terrestrials colonizing in my "big butt". It holds much weight indeed.

 

Perhaps I would do better.. to seek the Gods?

Did someone say something about  butts?

[Dabrikishaw]

As it stands, the Elven Pantheon may be so powerful that "god" was the only word sufficient to describe them at the time.

[Gervaise]

Strangely enough, people outside the Inner Circle do debate what happened at the Temple.   There are a couple of elves standing in the courtyard doing just that after you get back; each is advocating a different viewpoint on what occurred.

[Madmoe77]

Strangely enough, people outside the Inner Circle do debate what happened at the Temple.   There are a couple of elves standing in the courtyard doing just that after you get back; each is advocating a different viewpoint on what occurred.

 

 

The Walls have Ears. But the Gods have no Weight.

 

The game could change it's name to Dragon Age: Intuition for as much as it tells but not shows.  

[In Exile]

As it stands, the Elven Pantheon may be so powerful that "god" was the only word sufficient to describe them at the time.

 

Not in the way people use "God" with a capital "G". Really, we haven't seen these supposed gods do anything especially awe inspiring becomes the creation of the breach using Solas's orb, and that's likely more the product of the magical-equivalent of technology. We know that the elves created an entire pocket dimension and teleporters (the Crossroads and Eluvians, respectively), so they had a kind of reality-altering magical power completely beyond our comprehension. Solas confirms that all elves were immortal (in the ageless sense). 

 

IRL, we've had regular humans worshiped as gods (cf. Pharaos). 

[9TailsFox]

Well normally it would be a shock to meat god. But god not equal god. Then we reach the line then human become god?

 

[In Exile]

Well normally it would be a shock to meat god. But god not equal god. Then we reach the line then human become god?

 

I'm pretty sure "meat"-ing god would be shocking. 

[9TailsFox]

I'm pretty sure "meat"-ing god would be shocking. 

I have green glowing hand witch lets me control fade. Most likely person who responsible for the blight, who have rotten dragon wants to kill me, oh and he is practicly immortal. I experienced time travel. Physically entered fade Yeh I met elven god, so what I call it normal Thursday.

[Aulis Vaara]

Would like to point out that gods existing in Thedas is no big deal. Every few hundred years one rises from the Deep Roads to attempt to destroy the world. They already know gods exist.