That says nothing about the connection between a drive core and indoctrination. Please elaborate.
There is presumably a specific part of the Reaper that controls the indoctrination signal, and if that's not working I don't see how anyone could be affected.
We heard of nobody that was indoctrinated as a result of scavenging Sovereign's corpse or researching its technology. It was far more dead than the derelict Reaper.
That is a big assumption isn't it?
Don't really see how. Can you point out how it is a big assumption?
Lol, says who?
Same people who say it is easier to reverse-engineer a gun than it is a nuclear reactor. The latter is a lot more advanced than the former.
With the Reaper core, it is so far above us that to the scientists Reaper cores seem to defy the laws of physics, and that is ME physics.
Going in another direction, does the wormhole have to be accidental?
Well if it's not accidental that means there's an easy route between the 2 galaxies, which makes the setting change irrelevant. It's either have to be hard (FTL) or accidental.
a nuclear reactor
The drive core uses eezo, not nuclear materials. It's functionally identical to every other drive core in the galaxy.
If we want to look at the actual lore of drive cores in the universe, the research done to create the Normandy's Tantalus drive would seem to foreshadow improvements in speed and FTL range:
The Tantalus drive generates mass concentrations that the Normandy "falls into", allowing her to move without the use of heat-emitting thrusters. The core not only makes the Normandy quiet and fast, but means she can run at FTL speeds for much longer before having to discharge the drive.
Should the Normandy’s design prove useful in field tests, it is expected that a follow-up class incorporating "lessons learned" will be produced.
The drive core uses eezo, not nuclear materials. It's functionally identical to every other drive core in the galaxy.
It's a metaphor to show how much more complex a Reaper gun is to a Reaper core.
And no it is not. It wouldn't baffle the scientists if it was functionally identical.
If we want to look at the actual lore of drive cores in the universe, the research done to create the Normandy's Tantalus drive would seem to foreshadow improvements in speed and FTL range:
The Tantalus drive generates mass concentrations that the Normandy "falls into", allowing her to move without the use of heat-emitting thrusters. The core not only makes the Normandy quiet and fast, but means she can run at FTL speeds for much longer before having to discharge the drive.
Should the Normandy’s design prove useful in field tests, it is expected that a follow-up class incorporating "lessons learned" will be produced.
Okay, the Normandy can move farther than other ships. It's also a lot smaller than an ark ship would have to be and has a huge Eezo core in it. If we scale the Normandy up to the size of an ark ship, the core will have to be sized up as well. Also it would have to be sized up exponentially not linearly, so it results in a massive Eezo core.
Plus the elephant in the room: It still has to discharge.
The drive core uses eezo, not nuclear materials. It's functionally identical to every other drive core in the galaxy.
If we want to look at the actual lore of drive cores in the universe, the research done to create the Normandy's Tantalus drive would seem to foreshadow improvements in speed and FTL range:
The Tantalus drive generates mass concentrations that the Normandy "falls into", allowing her to move without the use of heat-emitting thrusters. The core not only makes the Normandy quiet and fast, but means she can run at FTL speeds for much longer before having to discharge the drive.
Should the Normandy’s design prove useful in field tests, it is expected that a follow-up class incorporating "lessons learned" will be produced.
Are you referring to the SR-1 or SR-2? It's worth nothing that the SR-2 is superior to the SR-1 in almost every way, shape, or form, and that was exclusively manufactured by Cerberus. It's unlikely any other organizations would not have had the means nor the funds to build such an incredibly expensive and impressive ship. TIM went on to suggest the cost of building the SR-2 and incorporating EDI was astronomical in scale.
It's also worth pointing out that the top scientists around the galaxy for all races were working exclusively on building the Crucible, so who could even have built the "Ark" to start? Again, the facts just don't add up that intergalactic travel is practical nor reasonable in the scope of what we experienced.
Well if it's not accidental that means there's an easy route between the 2 galaxies, which makes the setting change irrelevant. It's either have to be hard (FTL) or accidental.
Not necessarily. If it's a one-way wormhole then Andromedans can't get back, and Milky Way inhabitants have no idea if it worked or not. Post-Me3 without the desperation caused by the Reaper threat, it may be a long time before they would even attempt it again, and a crapshoot if it'd even work again.
Does that make it convenient that it worked the first time when they needed it to? Sure. But as I said, I think someone expecting an utter lack of contrivance isn't being reasonable.
It's also worth pointing out that the top scientists around the galaxy for all races were working exclusively on building the Crucible, so who could even have built the "Ark" to start?
They started the ark in 2183.
Not necessarily. If it's a one-way wormhole then Andromedans can't get back, and Milky Way inhabitants have no idea if it worked or not. Post-Me3 without the desperation caused by the Reaper threat, it may be a long time before they would even attempt it again, and a crapshoot if it'd even work again.
Does that make it convenient that it worked the first time when they needed it to? Sure. But as I said, I think someone expecting an utter lack of contrivance isn't being reasonable.
The only kind of wormhole that is one way is the one that results if a black hole and a white hole get connected somehow, since just like nothing can escape a black hole nothing can enter a white hole.
I know a white hole is a theoretical object, but so is a wormhole.
Not necessarily. If it's a one-way wormhole then Andromedans can't get back, and Milky Way inhabitants have no idea if it worked or not. Post-Me3 without the desperation caused by the Reaper threat, it may be a long time before they would even attempt it again, and a crapshoot if it'd even work again.
Does that make it convenient that it worked the first time when they needed it to? Sure. But as I said, I think someone expecting an utter lack of contrivance isn't being reasonable.
Fair points, although what would stop them to open a different wormhole from Andromeda to the Milky Way?
That says nothing about the connection between a drive core and indoctrination. Please elaborate.
There is presumably a specific part of the Reaper that controls the indoctrination signal, and if that's not working I don't see how anyone could be affected.
We heard of nobody that was indoctrinated as a result of scavenging Sovereign's corpse or researching its technology. It was far more dead than the derelict Reaper.
It says plenty about the association between internal Reaper technology and indoctrination as a whole, and the drive core is the very flipping heart of a Reaper. Why wouldn't it indoctrinate?
Considering the numerous ways characters across the series/franchise have been indoctrinated with an array of different pieces of Reaper tech, that presumption is inaccurate.
No, "an array" is like two things.
1. A live Reaper
and 2. A Reaper artefact intended to indoctrinate people.
The shattered remains of Sovereign are none of those things. Cerberus created EDI and the Alliance some hand-held weapons from analysing Sovereign, the turians created the Thanix cannon, and others created who-knows-what - and none of them got indoctrinated because of it.
Indoctrination is simply not an issue if people were studying the Reaper remains in 2183. It was dead, period.
The only kind of wormhole that is one way is the one that results if a black hole and a white hole get connected somehow, since just like nothing can escape a black hole nothing can enter a white hole.
I know a white hole is a theoretical object, but so is a wormhole.
Scylla's tweet shows the supermassive black hole at the core of the Milky Way, so maybe that's the case? Additionally with a Reaper IFF the Omega-4 Relay grants easy (lol) access to the galactic core.
Fair points, although what would stop them to open a different wormhole from Andromeda to the Milky Way?
Dunno. Inability to replicate the same circumstances, such as an Andromedan black hole connected to a Milky Way white hole? Also, it may be that they eventually WILL try it, but that it will be after the scope of the series. Mass Effect won't go on forever, and they could if they desired set ME5 very close to ME4.
They started the ark in 2183.
That makes even less sense... For one, that's at the beginning of when Mass Effect begins, and the galaxy is being ravaged by geth, Saren, and Sovereign. Also, who is "they"? Nobody in the galaxy has the capacity, the funds, nor the technology to build this ship. Also, you better believe it would take more than three years for something like this to even be constructed, given its size, complexity, etc. Again, the further we dig into the details of whether this "Ark" is even practical, the less reasonable and obvious that reality actually is.
That makes even less sense... For one, that's at the beginning of when Mass Effect begins, and the galaxy is being ravaged by geth, Saren, and Sovereign. Also, who is "they"? Nobody in the galaxy has the capacity, the funds, nor the technology to build this ship. Also, you better believe it would take more than three years for something like this to even be constructed, given its size, complexity, etc. Again, the further we dig into the details of whether this "Ark" is even practical, the less reasonable and obvious that reality actually is.
Glad you're an expert on futuristic shipbuilding, thanks for that. Good to see you also know about every single person in the galaxy's financial situation, the capacity of every race's shipyards, and the exact technical specifications required to build a ship for an FTL journey to Andromeda.
I bet Bioware are knocking on your door right now to get ideas for the story of this new game.
2183 is when Sovereign is killed and the Council becomes aware of the Reapers. Shepard also disappears months afterwards.
If I were a deeply cautious person, I'd start an ark contingency around about then. They have a motive, time, new technology to research and two years of the lore where we have absolutely no idea what happened because Shepard was dead.
Regarding Sovereign's corpse, in the Leviathan DLC it is revealed they keep every piece shielded and give anyone near them regular mental evaluations. So it suggests that indoctrination is still a problem.
Scylla's tweet shows the supermassive black hole at the core of the Milky Way, so maybe that's the case? Additionally with a Reaper IFF the Omega-4 Relay grants easy (lol) access to the galactic core.
True.
However such an idea brings up the problem of surviving the trip since it involves flying into a black hole.
They don't even have to RE the Reaper core totally. They only need to know how they can bypass the discharge issue. Fuel independence and the twice as fast FTL is irrelevant.
True.
However such an idea brings up the problem of surviving the trip since it involves flying into a black hole.
Definitely. I just don't think that'd be an obstacle to going through with this route. It's certainly a much easier obstacle to power through than positing relays connected to Andromeda or upgraded FTL cores making the journey.
And flying into a black hole has that sort of space opera poetic unsubtlety that BioWare admires.
Glad you're an expert on futuristic shipbuilding, thanks for that. Good to see you also know about every single person in the galaxy's financial situation, the capacity of every race's shipyards, and the exact technical specifications required to build a ship for an FTL journey to Andromeda.
I bet Bioware are knocking on your door right now to get ideas for the story of this new game.
2183 is when Sovereign is killed and the Council becomes aware of the Reapers. Shepard also disappears months afterwards.
If I were a deeply cautious person, I'd start an ark contingency around about then. They have a motive, time, new technology to research and two years of the lore where we have absolutely no idea what happened because Shepard was dead.
I'm glad you think you are an expert on futuristic shipbuilding. I'm fairly certain the SR-1 Normandy took many years to build. I can't remember if it was mentioned in the game or not. That's one small freighter. An Ark is something entirely different. No, that won't be built in three years. I believe you grossly underestimate what kind of resources, funds, and manpower would be necessary to get this done.
Yeah....no. The games do not support this idea that the Council was working on some sort of "ark contingency." In fact, we know the only thing the Council was doing was removing Sovereign fragments and fabricating what actually happened. There was no plan to escape. The Council even tells Shepard they thought the "reaper threat" was over after Sovereign died. You are just making baseless assumptions with nothing in the games to remotely back them up.
Again, the only organization we are aware of that could have "possibly" had the capabilities to make something so fictitious would be Cerberus, and TIM wasn't interested in running away from the reapers. He was interested in controlling them.
No, "an array" is like two things.
1. A live Reaper
and 2. A Reaper artefact intended to indoctrinate people.
The shattered remains of Sovereign are none of those things. Cerberus created EDI and the Alliance some hand-held weapons from analysing Sovereign, the turians created the Thanix cannon, and others created who-knows-what - and none of them got indoctrinated because of it.
Indoctrination is simply not an issue if people were studying the Reaper remains in 2183.
It was dead, period.
Again, the only organization we are aware of that could have "possibly" had the capabilities to make something so fictitious would be Cerberus, and TIM wasn't interested in running away from the reapers. He was interested in controlling them.
Definitely. I just don't think that'd be an obstacle to going through with this route. It's certainly a much easier obstacle to power through than positing relays connected to Andromeda or upgraded FTL cores making the journey.
And flying into a black hole has that sort of space opera poetic unsubtlety that BioWare admires.
I agree with that. To be honest, it kind of reminds me of the game Star Ocean: The Last Hope, which started on a very similar premise. Earth was dying due to the results of war so humanity send ships out to locate new worlds that humanity can inhabit via creating temporary wormholes for the ships to jump through. In fact, this whole premise sounds nearly identical to that game, just on a much larger scale.
No, that won't be built in three years. I believe you grossly underestimate what kind of resources, funds, and manpower would be necessary to get this done.
Dreadnoughts are the largest combat vessels built by Council species. They're about one kilometre long. By comparison, the Reaper capital ships are 2km.
As of 2183, the turians had 37 dreadnoughts, the asari had 21, the salarians had 16, and the Alliance had 6 with another under construction. As of 2185, the dreadnought count was 39 turian, 20 asari, 16 salarian, and 8 human. By 2186, humans construct a ninth dreadnought, and the volus have built a single dreadnought of their own.
Since the Alliance only had one dreadnought under construction in 2183, but two more in 2185, they must have finished an entire *new* ship in the space of two years. The Turians built two more also.
In 2186 the Alliance had three more dreadnoughts than in 2183.
As for Normandy-class frigates, the Alliance had managed to construct a second one by 2185, SSV Ain Jalut. It was mentioned in ME2.
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