2122 réponses à ce sujet

[marcelo caldas]

Yep, the "switches" have nothing to do with the Crucible - they were always part of the Citadel, so maybe the Keepers made them, or somebody just got really lazy with the writing

Lazy writing in the endins??? How???
lol

[pdusen]

No. I'm allowed to state what the games tell us.

All the game tells you is only what Shepard knows. And Shepard doesn't know everything, either.

[JeffZero]

Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Milky Way deleted! BioWare "willfully and ignorantly" removes entire galaxy from existence!

JeffZero, internet correspondent extraordinaire

 

Work on the next Mass Effect game has been underway for quite a while, with fans the world over thirsty for any and all available information. But the world may be the least of the fandom's concerns if a recent report from the company's social forums is accurate: sources close to the production claim that BioWare, in a classic case of overextension, has deleted our home galaxy from its native universe.

 

"I couldn't believe it," former BioWare Edmonton guru and Mass Effect series Creative Director Casey Hudson said from the den of his private jet, his surprisingly space-worthy aircraft reporting in live from the Pegasus Galaxy. "I woke up, talked about 32,000 unique endings or whatever they're claiming I said three years ago this time, called in an order for some donuts from Philadelphia, and got a whole lot of radio silence. I checked with my contacts, and sure enough, my former colleagues had gone and control-alt-deleted everything I ever loved." Hudson, who now intends to live out the rest of his days abroad, reflected with bittersweet melancholy that perhaps it isn't all bad. "They're doing the Andromeda Galaxy for the fourth game, right? That's kind of cool. I might go there, now that, you know, I can never go back to Earth."

 

Details on BioWare's executive decision to eradicate all life in the Milky Way in its wanton blaze of premeditated destruction are currently scarce, given that we're all dead. We promise more updates as they arrive, here in the afterlife, because again, we're dead.

[JeffZero]

...no, but seriously, this doesn't mean the absolute end for the Mass Effect universe as we know it. And it certainly doesn't mean the Milky Way has been deleted.

[Winterking]

Yes, they can, actually. They dont have to discharge their drive cores and they don't have to refuel, at least in any meaningful way relative to how the FTL tech of the galaxies' races work. They can thus travel for all intents and purposes indefinitely at FTL. They travel 30 light years per day. At that speed, they would reach Andromeda in 230 years. A blink of an eye for a Reaper.

So, sorry but the codex, lore, and basic extrapolation says they can do it. Whether or not they DID do it or would do it is a different story. That is unknown.

Well assuming that Reapers go to other galaxies, they can have other mass relays in dark space that link directly to Andromeda or possibly other galaxies just like they had one that linked directly to the Milky Way making the travel to Andromeda more feasable. 

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All the game tells you is only what Shepard knows. And Shepard doesn't know everything, either.

It tells us what the galaxy knows. 

[ElitePinecone]

It tells us what the galaxy knows. 

 

The Codex has been plainly wrong before, though - like the one in ME1 that indicated the mass relays were built by Protheans. 

 

It would be more accurate to say that the Codex gives a good overview of what the galaxy generally believes to be true. 

[pdusen]

It tells us what the galaxy knows. 

 

It tells us literally nothing except for what the person who said it or wrote it knew. The codeces are written by in-universe people. They can be wrong.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Codex has been plainly wrong before, though - like the one in ME1 that indicated the mass relays were built by Protheans. 

 

It would be more accurate to say that the Codex gives a good overview of what the galaxy generally believes to be true. 

It tells us literally nothing except for what the person who said it or wrote it knew. The codeces are written by in-universe people. They can be wrong.

 

And that was because the Reapers doing all that was supposed to be a plot twist and something the Reapers kept secret. There has yet to be an example of the galaxy keeping something secret from itself in the Codex. You are assuming there is such a thing to back up your theory, despite having no such evidence.

[pdusen]

And that was because the Reapers doing all that was supposed to be a plot twist and something the Reapers kept secret. There has yet to be an example of the galaxy keeping something secret from itself in the Codex. You are assuming there is such a thing to back up your theory, despite having no such evidence.

 

"The galaxy" is not a hivemind.

 

I don't have a theory and I'm not making assumptions. We don't have enough information to do either of those things. An idea that I wish you could internalize.

 

I'm merely acknowledging that it's possible for someone to have developed improved FTL capabilities, potentially capable of carrying us to Andromeda, without us having already heard about it. It's a big galaxy.

[Heimdall]

And that was because the Reapers doing all that was supposed to be a plot twist and something the Reapers kept secret. There has yet to be an example of the galaxy keeping something secret from itself in the Codex. You are assuming there is such a thing to back up your theory, despite having no such evidence.

It proves precedent of the Codex being limited by character knowledge.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't have a theory and I'm not making assumptions. We don't have enough information to do either of those things. An idea that I wish you could internalize.

 

I'm merely acknowledging that it's possible for someone to have developed improved FTL capabilities, potentially capable of carrying us to Andromeda, without us having already heard about it. It's a big galaxy.

And I'm merely pointing out that nowhere in the established lore is this possibility presented while likewise there is established lore that it is not possible with current tech.

The only ones who have this technology in the established lore is the Reapers, and it is established that scientists in our cycle have no idea how Reaper cores work, seeing them as defying the laws of physics. 

 

 

It proves precedent of the Codex being limited by character knowledge.

No, it shows the Codex being limited by the galaxy's knowledge. There's a difference. 

The Codex mentions things that were kept secret from the galaxy, and yet still reveals it for the player. And nowhere is it mentioned that our cycle has intergalactic capabilities. 

[pdusen]

And I'm merely pointing out that nowhere in the established lore is this possibility presented while likewise there is established lore that it is not possible with current tech.

The only ones who have this technology in the established lore is the Reapers, and it is established that scientists in our cycle have no idea how Reaper cores work, seeing them as defying the laws of physics. 

 

You keep saying "established". Established by who?

 

No, it shows the Codex being limited by the galaxy's knowledge. There's a difference. 

The Codex mentions things that were kept secret from the galaxy, and yet still reveals it for the player. And nowhere is it mentioned that our cycle has intergalactic capabilities. 

 

...I'm pretty sure you just proved that the Codex is more representative of Shepard's knowledge of a subject than "the galaxy's" knowledge.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You keep saying "established". Established by who?

Bioware. 

 

...I'm pretty sure you just proved that the Codex is more representative of Shepard's knowledge of a subject than "the galaxy's" knowledge.

Except it also gives you information Shepard wouldn't know before they learn it.

The Codex exists to inform the player of everything that may be important to know or enhance their experience, using the knowledge of Shepard and the galaxy to do so. 

[pdusen]

Bioware. 

 

If you accept Bioware's word as the unerring truth, then if Bioware tells you that someone was in fact secretly developing improved FTL and did in fact manage to hide it from the galaxy at large, you would have to accept that as well.

 

In which case, what are you even doing here?

 

Except it also gives you information Shepard wouldn't know before they learn it.

The Codex exists to inform the player of everything that may be important to know or enhance their experience, using the knowledge of Shepard and the galaxy to do so. 

 

Really? Can you give an example? I never saw a codex entry that wasn't either something Shepard saw, or heard, or could have just read a report about (Alliance, Spectre, History book, or otherwise.)

[Heimdall]

Bioware.

Except it also gives you information Shepard wouldn't know before they learn it.
The Codex exists to inform the player of everything that may be important to know or enhance their experience, using the knowledge of Shepard and the galaxy to do so.

Like how the Protheans created the Relays? That's a secret kept from the Galaxy at large and reflected in the Codex being wrong. There's no reason the same thing couldn't be true.

And besides, the codex entries you reference are very shaky evidence for your conclusions.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If you accept Bioware's word as the unerring truth, then if Bioware tells you that someone was in fact secretly developing improved FTL and did in fact manage to hide it from the galaxy at large, you would have to accept that as well.

Yes, I would accept that. I may not like it, but I'd accept it. 

 

In which case, what are you even doing here?

Because I'm a Mass Effect fan. Why shouldn't I be here? 

 

Really? Can you give an example? I never saw a codex entry that wasn't either something Shepard saw, or heard, or could have just read a report about (Alliance, Spectre, History book, or otherwise.)

Yes, I can. Beginning of Mass Effect 3, before Shepard could possibly read up on them since they were running for the Normandy, we get a detailed Codex about the Cannibals. 

[CronoDragoon]

And nowhere is it mentioned that our cycle has intergalactic capabilities. 

 

That isn't equivalent to the Codex saying intergalactic travel is impossible in all conceivable situations, which is what you'd need to show for this to even be an argument.

 

Assuming you could do so, I still don't see the point. Lore is there to serve the premise of the game, not vice versa. You will not find many writers who believe that lore is some sacred vow that can't be broken even if doing so leads to a better story.

 

Add in new scientific breakthroughs and/or new discoveries and/or accidents (we've discussed wormholes before) and I think the resistance to the Andromeda scenario is a bit overzealous.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Like how the Protheans created the Relays? That's a secret kept from the Galaxy at large and reflected in the Codex being wrong. There's no reason the same thing couldn't be true.

And besides, the codex entries you reference are very shaky evidence for your conclusions.

As I said, the Codex takes the knowledge of the entire galaxy and gives it to the player. The entire galaxy thought that the Mass Relays and the Citadel were built by the Protheans. 

 

Shaky evidence is better than no evidence. 

 

That isn't equivalent to the Codex saying intergalactic travel is impossible in all conceivable situations, which is what you'd need to show for this to even be an argument.

 

Assuming you could do so, I still don't see the point. Lore is there to serve the premise of the game, not vice versa. You will not find many writers who believe that lore is some sacred vow that can't be broken even if doing so leads to a better story.

I'm well aware Bioware retcons themselves. David Gaider for example is infamous for that. But it doesn't change the fact that whenever they do it is just that, a retcon. 

[CronoDragoon]

 

I'm well aware Bioware retcons themselves. David Gaider for example is infamous for that. But it doesn't change the fact that whenever they do it is just that, a retcon. 

 

 

And retcons can lead to better stories in some situations. Which is why my stance and that of several others - I believe - is to wait and see what they do with it.

 

Of course, the only way it would be a retcon is if they retroactively established that the galaxy largely thought IG travel was possible. Anything else I mentioned above isn't a retcon.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And retcons can lead to better stories in some situations. Which is why my stance and that of several others - I believe - is to wait and see what they do with it.

 

Of course, the only way it would be a retcon is if they retroactively established that the galaxy largely thought IG travel was possible. Anything else I mentioned above isn't a retcon.

I disagree. Retcons create disconnects from earlier parts of a franchise, weakening it as a whole. 

 

No, it would be a retcon by retroactively establishing that our cycle was capable of such at all. 

 

That example is kind of a stretch. Reports regarding the reapers are coming in before Earth is actually attacked. And either way, that codex doesn't appear before Shepard actually sees the cannibals.

No, it's not. Shepard had no idea of the Reaper's progress until Anderson brings them to the meeting when they connect the dots. And they never discuss Cannibals. And yet the moment they see one we get a detailed Codex entry about them. If it was by what Shepard knew the codex would be "It's a variation of a Husk and serves the Reapers." 

 

 

It's only a retcon if it actively contradicts something that has already been established as true.

 

That improved FTL is not being developed hasn't been established as true, it's just been established that everyone we know of has told us that it is true.

 

By your definition, every plot twist ever is a retcon.

And they established that our cycle cannot do it. The problems that such a journey would face has been established, and that we have not overcome those problems has been established. 

 

If this was after the Reaper War, then it wouldn't be a retcon. But before or during, it would be. 

[CronoDragoon]

I disagree. Retcons create disconnects from earlier parts of a franchise, weakening it as a whole. 

 

Obviously everyone can have their own opinion on that, but some writers disagree with you, or they wouldn't do retcons in the first place.

 

No, it would be a retcon by retroactively establishing that our cycle was capable of such at all.

 

In order for that to be a retcon we'd need Word of God that IG travel was 100% impossible. Not the Galaxy's assumption on the matter.

[Iakus]

It's only a retcon if it actively contradicts something that has already been established as true.

 

That improved FTL is not being developed hasn't been established as true, it's just been established that everyone we know of has told us that it is true.

 

By your definition, every plot twist ever is a retcon.

It's still space magic.  Deus ex machina.  Copout.  Handwave.  Rule of Cool.  Or whatever.

[pdusen]

And they established that our cycle cannot do it. The problems that such a journey would face has been established, and that we have not overcome those problems has been established. 

 

If this was after the Reaper War, then it wouldn't be a retcon. But before or during, it would be. 

 

 

No it wouldn't, and you shouting "RETCON RETCON RETCON PERFECT KNOWLEDGE RETCON INFALLIBLE CODEXES RETCON ESTABLISHED LORE RETCON RETCON" until you're blue in the face won't change that.

 

 

It's still space magic.  Deus ex machina.  Copout.  Handwave.  Rule of Cool.  Or whatever.

 

 

So any new technological development in a fictional setting ever is space magic? Okay, whatever floats your boat.

[Heimdall]

As I said, the Codex takes the knowledge of the entire galaxy and gives it to the player. The entire galaxy thought that the Mass Relays and the Citadel were built by the Protheans.

Shaky evidence is better than no evidence.

That was the general belief of the Galaxy. Just as the general belief of the Galaxy can't comprehend Reaper drive cores. That doesn't mean a secretive isolated group of scientists couldn't have figured it out. The codex doesn't put limitations on the knowledge of every person in the Galaxy. It's history text books and military reports, mostly.

Shaky evidence is as good as no evidence.