The Codex has been plainly wrong before, though - like the one in ME1 that indicated the mass relays were built by Protheans.
It would be more accurate to say that the Codex gives a good overview of what the galaxy generally believes to be true.
I like this human, he understands!
That is what Lore is supposed to be in the end. People take it too literally, it's almost comical in the end.
So any new technological development in a fictional setting ever is space magic? Okay, whatever floats your boat.
I think the word people are looking for is contrived. Or convenient.
In most ways BioWare could establish IG travel, it's hard to argue otherwise. In some situations you could find a way to explain how the galaxy achieves IG travel precisely when they need to, but in all cases it's going to feel a bit unnatural.
I just don't think that's an issue.
So any new technological development in a fictional setting ever is space magic? Okay, whatever floats your boat.
If it's that dramatic a leap in advancement with zero foreshadowing? Yes.
I think the word people are looking for is contrived. Or convenient.
In most ways BioWare could establish IG travel, it's hard to argue otherwise. In some situations you could find a way to explain how the galaxy achieves IG travel precisely when they need to, but in all cases it's going to feel a bit unnatural.
I just don't think that's an issue.
Based on my (admittedly fading) understanding of how Relativity works, FTL travel as presented in the game setting shouldn't be possible at all, so I have a hard time seeing any of these issues as bigger than that big one.
I think the word people are looking for is contrived. Or convenient.
In most ways BioWare could establish IG travel, it's hard to argue otherwise. In some situations you could find a way to explain how the galaxy achieves IG travel precisely when they need to, but in all cases it's going to feel a bit unnatural.
I just don't think that's an issue.
Based on my (admittedly fading) understanding of how Relativity works, FTL travel as presented in the game setting shouldn't be possible at all, so I have a hard time seeing any of these issues as bigger than that big one.
Because from the beginning it was established that those were the Rules. FTL works this way, even if it's not how the Real World functions. And as long as it follows the Rules, that's fine.
But when the rules get broken without a d@mn good reason, that's then things fall apart, and suspension of disbelief fails. That's when you get charges of Space Magic. Because not only does it not work in the Real World, it's not even supposed to work in the fictional universe.
Based on my (admittedly fading) understanding of how Relativity works, FTL travel as presented in the game setting shouldn't be possible at all, so I have a hard time seeing any of these issues as bigger than that big one.
Is there a functional difference between contrived or convenient versus revealed?
Fictional works have a long history of revealing solutions at the high point of tension, where they best serve the drama.
Contrived or convenient generally comes without any hints or internal logic. Revealed remains internally consistent with the story.
The reveal in Jade Empire worked because when you thought back on it, everything stayed consistent, albeit complicated to the point of being a Batman Gambit.
Convenient is like the Lazarus Project: Cerberus had resurrection technology just when it was needed for no other reason than "drama"
Is there a functional difference between contrived or convenient versus revealed?
Fictional works have a long history of revealing solutions at the high point of tension, where they best serve the drama.
Usually with some degree of foreshadowing, though, or they do indeed feel contrived or convenient. If a solution is revealed that makes sense given what we know about either the world or the timeline of the story, it can feel natural instead of contrived even with a reveal.
The caveat to this being when Deus Ex Machina was not only common but praised, such as ancient Greek plays. Which only goes to show that asking the question "What is the point of this story?" goes a long way towards establishing the proper expectations for plot development, which include willingness to accept scientific contrivances.
After all, I don't hear many people scoffing at Iron Man's manueverability considering the strength of his rocket propulsion system, or asking how Angel can bone Buffy even though he doesn't pump blood through his body (being dead and all).
I don't see this as a really compelling objection to intergalactic travel. What actual "rule" is being violated there? Or are we talking about something else?Because from the beginning it was established that those were the Rules. FTL works this way, even if it's not how the Real World functions. And as long as it follows the Rules, that's fine.
But when the rules get broken without a d@mn good reason, that's then things fall apart, and suspension of disbelief fails. That's when you get charges of Space Magic. Because not only does it not work in the Real World, it's not even supposed to work in the fictional universe.
In retrospect, it's pretty clear that Bio deliberately designed the ME and DA Codexes as in-universe information rather than as objective fact in order to be able to retcon those objective facts at will. They learned their lesson from being tied to the SW and D&D universes.
Contrived or convenient generally comes without any hints or internal logic. Revealed remains internally consistent with the story.
The reveal in Jade Empire worked because when you thought back on it, everything stayed consistent, albeit complicated to the point of being a Batman Gambit.
Convenient is like the Lazarus Project: Cerberus had resurrection technology just when it was needed for no other reason than "drama"
I don't see this as a really compelling objection to intergalactic travel. What actual "rule" is being violated there? Or are we talking about something else?
FTL technology as thus far revealed makes travel to another galaxy extremely problematic. A ship and it's crew simply wouldn't hold together long enough to make it there.
I dunno. I tend to put Lazarus in the revealed category.
It is true that there was no foreshadowing wrt Lazarus, but then again, I don't recall anything in the lore that would have prohibited it.
In the case of Lazarus, it's less ME lore specifically and more what we currently know about what happens to the brain when someone dies. Resurrecting Shepard into a comatose state would have been a different story, for example.
I always thought the ME3 Cerberus base dialogue was interesting for that reason, with Shepard wondering if he's actually Shepard or just a program that was put into Shepard's body.
Anyway, I never much minded Lazarus, either. It was clearly done for my benefit after all, as someone hopping into the ME series with 2 on the PS3.
In the case of Lazarus, it's less ME lore specifically and more what we currently know about what happens to the brain when someone dies. Resurrecting Shepard into a comatose state would have been a different story, for example.
I always thought the ME3 Cerberus base dialogue was interesting for that reason, with Shepard wondering if he's actually Shepard or just a program that was put into Shepard's body.
Anyway, I never much minded Lazarus, either. It was clearly done for my benefit after all, as someone hopping into the ME series with 2 on the PS3.
I really dislike the Cerberus base dialogue. All of it felt completely out of character and a complete sense of dissonance with the knowledge Shep has from ME2.
In the case of Lazarus, it's less ME lore specifically and more what we currently know about what happens to the brain when someone dies. Resurrecting Shepard into a comatose state would have been a different story, for example.
I always thought the ME3 Cerberus base dialogue was interesting for that reason, with Shepard wondering if he's actually Shepard or just a program that was put into Shepard's body.
Anyway, I never much minded Lazarus, either. It was clearly done for my benefit after all, as someone hopping into the ME series with 2 on the PS3.
I don't see this as a really compelling objection to intergalactic travel. What actual "rule" is being violated there? Or are we talking about something else?
There's supposedly static electricity build-up in the eezo core that would leak into the ship and fry its systems/kill everyone if it wasn't discharged into a planet or appropriate facility.
But the Codex does mention that space stations have platforms for docking ships to discharge their drives, and I don't see how the ark couldn't carry a couple of those around with it to drop off every few years, even if it were making the journey to Andromeda with conventional rather than Reaper drives.
I mean, "The Lore" (all praise its glory) never actually says how often drives need to be discharged. It could be years at a time.
I honestly think people take this whole lore thing way too serious.
ME never was hard SF, not even ME1. ME is fanatsy in space very much like Star Wars. If you want hard SF go read some Isaac Asimov novels or so.
In retrospect, it's pretty clear that Bio deliberately designed the ME and DA Codexes as in-universe information rather than as objective fact in order to be able to retcon those objective facts at will. They learned their lesson from being tied to the SW and D&D universes.
Exactly, even in ME3 the Citadel is still referred to in the description flavour text as a "Prothean" creation, despite Shepard having discovered that it was built by the Reapers as glorified schmuck bait in the first game.
I honestly think people take this whole lore thing way too serious.
ME never was hard SF, not even ME1. ME is fanatsy in space very much like Star Wars. If you want hard SF go read some Isaac Asimov novels or so.
It doesn't have to be "hard" it just has to be consistent.
Make up whatever rules you want about how the science or magic works. Just abide by them once they are set.
But there's nothing about FTL travel as currently revealed that makes this conceptually impossible, is there? We don't know why organic ships are limited to the speeds they're limited to, how Reaper ships have a higher speed limit and no drive charge or fuel constraints, or even why a mass relay needs a second relay on the other end.FTL technology as thus far revealed makes travel to another galaxy extremely problematic. A ship and it's crew simply wouldn't hold together long enough to make it there.
I used to watch Stargate SG-1, I much liked that series. I didn't like Stargate Atlantis.
It took at least 7 seasons, if memory serves, for Stargate to go the intergalactic route.
Star Trek, another favorite of mine, never needed it.
Mass Effect, according to rumors is to shift galaxies after what is essentially just one story.
It doesn't have to be "hard" it just has to be consistent.
Make up whatever rules you want about how the science or magic works. Just abide by them once they are set.
That's fair, and leaves entirely open the possibility for BioWare to establish new information that supplements existing information and thereby makes IG travel possible. Direct contradictions can be avoided.
I do hope people don't get too worked up about the how. It's going to take 15 minutes at most to establish the new Andromeda setting, and if people are lucky they'll get an explanation in the Codex.
But there's nothing about FTL travel as currently revealed that makes this conceptually impossible, is there? We don't know why organic ships are limited to the speeds they're limited to, how Reaper ships have a higher speed limit and no drive charge or fuel constraints, or even why a mass relay needs a second relay on the other end.
We don't even know that the mass effect drive is the only possible form of FTL travel. In fact, there's good reason to suspect that others might possible, since the Reapers deliberately let organics get their hands on mass effect technology from the previous cycle, rather than let them invent something on their own.
Given centuries or milenia, sure. But given the Reapers are not only more advanced but seem to "violate the laws of physics" with what they can do, we're not likely to be figuring this new technology out any time soon.
Which leads to another problem: such a leap in technology would fundamentally change the setting anyway: just as setting a story during the War of the Hundred years would be different from setting a story in the same location during the 21st century. And that's aside from shifting the locale.
Letting the cycle invent stuff on their own would have been a wonderful idea DURING THE REAPER WAR. Get people to stop being dependent on mass effect technology. Unfortunately, the endings don't seem to bear that out. The Reapers are still around in two out of the three endings, the galaxy is still dependent on the relays. There's simply no foundation for actually striking out on our own. At least not in the near-term.
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