2122 réponses à ce sujet

[NM_Che56]

Still a valid concern

 

Right, when they're throwing every resource they have at building the Crucible before the Reapers eat the galaxy, they're going to divert a massive amount of said resources to building ships using propulsion systems that don't exist, power supplies to keep said ships going and the crew alive for centuries on the complete shot in the dark that they might traverse the entirety of dark space to another galaxy that might have habitable planets that are both in range and not currently occupied.

 

Even Jor-El knew what planet he was aiming his son at. 

 

 

So instead aim for a planet in a galaxy that is currently infested with Reapers...?

 

You assume the following:

 

1) The creators of the game are hemmed into considerations only explained to us thus far and that there is no way to build a story where things happened outside of our awareness in the games. The beauty of fiction...  You're bound by what has been explained to us.  The creators of the story are not.

 

2) In this big, crazy galaxy you think it's believable that EVERYONE believes in the the Crucible plan?  I don't mean this as an insult, but that's pretty naive.  We have a prominent example of one powerful individual that did not buy into the what the Alliance & Co were selling; The Illusive Man and Cerberus.  Surely, there are other insanely rich entrepreneurs (or a group of them) that would develop an exit plan. Surely someone out there has sent probes out to find habitable planets in other galaxies (hell, wasn't that a big part of Interstellar?).  

[NM_Che56]

the mentality of "because they never mentioned it before means that it can't be written into existence later" when it comes to this stuff is truly...remarkable.

[ElitePinecone]

Yah

 

Nah times infinity. 

[Torgette]

So instead aim for a planet in a galaxy that is currently infested with Reapers...?

 

You assume the following:

 

1) The creators of the game are hemmed into considerations only explained to us thus far and that there is no way to build a story where things happened outside of our awareness in the games. The beauty of fiction...  You're bound by what has been explained to us.  The creators of the story are not.

 

2) In this big, crazy galaxy you think it's believable that EVERYONE believes in the the Crucible plan?  I don't mean this as an insult, but that's pretty naive.  We have a prominent example of one powerful individual that did not buy into the what the Alliance & Co were selling; The Illusive Man and Cerberus.  Surely, there are other insanely rich entrepreneurs (or a group of them) that would develop an exit plan. Surely someone out there has sent probes out to find habitable planets in other galaxies (hell, wasn't that a big part of Interstellar?).  

 

Just my experience but it seemed like almost nobody really believed in the Crucible, it was more just facing annihilation that made people desperate enough to support anything - even a "magic bullet". In that setting, I could totally see anybody from the rich to the insane to the powerful building their own backup/escape plans, in fact it would be that type of desperation that would probably make something like an Ark more feasible than had it been built during peacetime.

[Nitrocuban]

Wormhole?

[Iakus]

So instead aim for a planet in a galaxy that is currently infested with Reapers...?

 

You assume the following:

 

1) The creators of the game are hemmed into considerations only explained to us thus far and that there is no way to build a story where things happened outside of our awareness in the games. The beauty of fiction...  You're bound by what has been explained to us.  The creators of the story are not.

 

And that is very bad storytelling.  Explanations have to make sense in the context of the world that was created.  Otherwise it's just a cop-out.

 

 

2) In this big, crazy galaxy you think it's believable that EVERYONE believes in the the Crucible plan?  I don't mean this as an insult, but that's pretty naive.  We have a prominent example of one powerful individual that did not buy into the what the Alliance & Co were selling; The Illusive Man and Cerberus.  Surely, there are other insanely rich entrepreneurs (or a group of them) that would develop an exit plan. Surely someone out there has sent probes out to find habitable planets in other galaxies (hell, wasn't that a big part of Interstellar?).

 

A trip to another galaxy would be incredibly resource intensive and at a time when two resource intensive projects are already going on:  Fighting the Reapers and building the Crucible.  

 

And those probes would have to have been sent centuries of even millenia ago.  Any information sent would be centuries out of date (at least).  

 

Unless a "convenient" stable wormhole magically appears somewhere, of course. *coughdeusexmachinacough*

[ElitePinecone]

Have they made any suggestion as to why anyone would build those ships? If it happens before the existing trilogy when there's still an awful lot of the MIlky Way left to explore, then it makes little sense. If they do it after, when the galaxy is stretched to the limit just trying to surivive the aftermath, let alone rebuild, then it makes little sense. I could buy some probe ships being sent there, not a whole ark.

 

To get back to this question: one idea is that an ark is built to escape the Milky Way before or during the events of ME3, as a way of ensuring the survival of the Council races even if the war against the Reapers fails and everyone in our galaxy dies. 

 

It would be a sort of "Plan B", or contingency. In fact, one theory is that the "A.R.K.C.O.N" symbol in the NME teaser picture that is my avatar actually stands for "Ark Contingency". 

 

There is some grounds for this kind of contingency in ME3, where after the fall of Thessia the asari councillor talks about needing to put plans in motion to "ensure the survival of civilisation". As far as I know, those plans were never elaborated upon in the game - and if some people really were worried about losing the war, I suspect the destruction of Thessia would be a compelling catalyst (no pun intended) to launch the ship, just in case the Crucible didn't work and Shepard couldn't defeat the Reapers.

[Iakus]

To get back to this question: one idea is that an ark is built to escape the Milky Way before or during the events of ME3, as a way of ensuring the survival of the Council races even if the war against the Reapers fails and everyone in our galaxy dies. 

 

It would be a sort of "Plan B", or contingency. In fact, one theory is that the "A.R.K.C.O.N" symbol in the NME teaser picture that is my avatar actually stands for "Ark Contingency". 

 

There is some grounds for this kind of contingency in ME3, where after the fall of Thessia the asari councillor talks about needing to put plans in motion to "ensure the survival of civilisation". As far as I know, those plans were never elaborated upon in the game - and if some people really were worried about losing the war, I suspect the destruction of Thessia would be a compelling catalyst (no pun intended) to launch the ship, just in case the Crucible didn't work and Shepard couldn't defeat the Reapers.

Be a lot more feasible and a lot less resource intensive to simply send an ark out into dark space, wait a couple centuries, then come back.

 

Like Javik's people planned.  And might have worked if they weren't discovered.

 

Edit:  or hell, send an ark out in this galaxy somewhere far beyond the relay network.  

[ElitePinecone]

A trip to another galaxy would be incredibly resource intensive and at a time when two resource intensive projects are already going on:  Fighting the Reapers and building the Crucible.  

 

Resources arguments are pretty irrelevant for a contingency plan, though - the only reason someone would build an ark is because they believed that those two projects might not be enough to defeat the Reapers, and a Plan C was required. 

 

(To put it another way: if someone approves an ark project, it's because they want to plan for a situation where regardless of the resources dedicated to the Crucible and the war, neither of them work. Dedicating a modest amount of resources to a contingency in that case might be more effective than using them for a war effort that could quite possibly fail entirely. It hinges upon how much faith people put in the Crucible and the possibility of conventional victory, and I don't think either of those things were looking very positive all throughout the war.)

 

Given what the citizens of the galaxy know about the Prothean extinction, the Reapers, the cycles and what they don't know about the Crucible, I think it's incredibly irresponsible not to have a backup plan, no matter how much it costs. 

 

And if we're really worried about using resources during the war, a number of theories have suggested that the ark is built in secret after 2183 or 2184, which removes the competition for resources and staff with the Crucible entirely. 

[Iakus]

Resources arguments are pretty irrelevant for a contingency plan, though - the only reason someone would build an ark is because they believed that those two projects might not be enough to defeat the Reapers, and a Plan C was required. 

 

(To put it another way: if someone approves an ark project, it's because they want to plan for a situation where regardless of the resources dedicated to the Crucible and the war, neither of them work. Dedicating a modest amount of resources to a contingency in that case might be more effective than using them for a war effort that could quite possibly fail entirely. It hinges upon how much faith people put in the Crucible and the possibility of conventional victory, and I don't think either of those things were looking very positive all throughout the war.)

 

Given what the citizens of the galaxy know about the Prothean extinction, the Reapers, the cycles and what they don't know about the Crucible, I think it's incredibly irresponsible not to have a backup plan, no matter how much it costs. 

 

And if we're really worried about using resources during the war, a number of theories have suggested that the ark is built in secret after 2183 or 2184, which removes the competition for resources and staff with the Crucible entirely. 

I'd say resources are even more relevant for a contingency plan, since said plan depends entirely on how much in the way of resources is left once Plan A and Plan B take thiers .  All the most brilliant minds are going to the Crucible project.  Every able bodied person is contributing either to the Crucible or the war effort.  The economy is on such a war footing it's going to implode in about a year.  Everything in the galaxy is being dumped into these projects.  There's quite simply not much left for plan C.  Certainly not for such a massive project as sending colonists to another galaxy, especially as that would require developing a whole new technology in the first place.

[Heimerdinger]

Here's one from Mac Walters about post ME3: "Why would you want to play in a wasteland?"

 

Maybe the reapers won after all. Then this Ark Theory would make 100% sense.

 

"New home for humanity" - Check

"Humanity's last hope" - Check

 

I would roll with that.

[Vazgen]

BSN

[Sion1138]

Here's one from Mac Walters about post ME3: "Why would you want to play in a wasteland?"

 

Ever play Fallout?

[ElitePinecone]

Be a lot more feasible and a lot less resource intensive to simply send an ark out into dark space, wait a couple centuries, then come back.

 

Unless those people intended to remain entirely hidden in our galaxy for tens of thousands of years, they'd just be discovered by the Reaper vanguard and harvested again, under the assumption that Shepard failed and the Reapers killed everybody. 

 

No spacefaring civilisation of any significant size could emerge in the Milky Way without being discovered and destroyed by the Reapers. That's been the case for hundreds of millions of years in this setting. For all we know, the Catalyst monitors use of the mass relay network and passes it on to the vanguard. (I know the logic of that lore fell apart when they introduced the Catalyst, but it's always been stated that the Reapers monitor galactic civilisations so they know when to harvest them.)

 

As I've said a couple of times before, a new galaxy - whatever the other dangers and risks there - is Reaper-free as far as we know, which isn't something that could be said for the Milky Way even a few hundred years after the current cycle. To my mind, a solution that entails escaping from the Reapers permanently is worth whatever resources it requires, in a situation where they expect to lose the war - and the risk of returning to the Milky Way and being discovered by the Reapers before they're ready to face them again is simply too high.

 

Going to Andromeda is dangerous, but guarantees safety from the Reapers as far as we know. Going to dark space and returning guarantees a conflict with the Reapers again, some time, and I reckon that's an unacceptably high risk for a contingency project to face. Remember that in this scenario, they'd assume that neither conventional warfare nor the Crucible were enough to stop the Reapers, and plan accordingly. 

 

I also don't necessarily think it's that more resource-intensive to go to another galaxy - ships in this universe don't consume eezo, the colonists don't require food or water if they're in cryo-stasis, and the process of colonising a new planet (or planets) in Andromeda is not going to be much more expensive or use more resources than re-colonising the Milky Way after the Reapers have totally destroyed everything.

[ElitePinecone]

I'd say resources are even more relevant for a contingency plan, since said plan depends entirely on how much in the way of resources is left once Plan A and Plan B take thiers .  All the most brilliant minds are going to the Crucible project.  Every able bodied person is contributing either to the Crucible or the war effort.  The economy is on such a war footing it's going to implode in about a year.  Everything in the galaxy is being dumped into these projects.  There's quite simply not much left for plan C.  Certainly not for such a massive project as sending colonists to another galaxy, especially as that would require developing a whole new technology in the first place.

 

Not if Plan C is started before the first two. 

 

It's entirely possible that an ark was started before the Crucible, and even before the war with the Reapers. The galaxy knew of the existence of Sovereign way back in 2183.

[GalacticWolf5]

Here's one from Mac Walters about post ME3: "Why would you want to play in a wasteland?"

Isnt that quote from before the EC? When the Relays exploded?

Well they dont do that anymore.

[Sion1138]

Not if Plan C is started before the first two. 

 

It's entirely possible that an ark was started before the Crucible, and even before the war with the Reapers. The galaxy knew of the existence of Sovereign way back in 2183.

 

By whom?

[pdusen]

So instead aim for a planet in a galaxy that is currently infested with Reapers...?

 

You assume the following:

 

1) The creators of the game are hemmed into considerations only explained to us thus far and that there is no way to build a story where things happened outside of our awareness in the games. The beauty of fiction...  You're bound by what has been explained to us.  The creators of the story are not.

 

2) In this big, crazy galaxy you think it's believable that EVERYONE believes in the the Crucible plan?  I don't mean this as an insult, but that's pretty naive.  We have a prominent example of one powerful individual that did not buy into the what the Alliance & Co were selling; The Illusive Man and Cerberus.  Surely, there are other insanely rich entrepreneurs (or a group of them) that would develop an exit plan. Surely someone out there has sent probes out to find habitable planets in other galaxies (hell, wasn't that a big part of Interstellar?).  

 

 

the mentality of "because they never mentioned it before means that it can't be written into existence later" when it comes to this stuff is truly...remarkable.

 

I like you. You get the concept of us not knowing everything. Most in this thread do not.

[ElitePinecone]

By whom?

 

Well, the Council knew about Sovereign even if they denied the existence of the Reapers publicly. 

 

And the asari in particular are used to keeping secrets. 

 

Even the Alliance would have its share of clandestine programs - and if ARKCON is a human-led organisation, this might be the path that the writers end up going down. 

[Sion1138]

Well, the Council knew about Sovereign even if they denied the existence of the Reapers publicly. 

 

And the asari in particular are used to keeping secrets. 

 

Even the Alliance would have its share of clandestine programs - and if ARKCON is a human-led organisation, this might be the path that the writers end up going down. 

 

None of them prepared for anything.

 

That was the core problem and plot motivator of ME3.

[AlanC9]

A trip to another galaxy would be incredibly resource intensive and at a time when two resource intensive projects are already going on:  Fighting the Reapers and building the Crucible.  
 
And those probes would have to have been sent centuries of even millenia ago.  Any information sent would be centuries out of date (at least).  

I'm betting there weren't any probes, myself. Just a leap into the unknown. And I'm still betting wormhole, though Inwouldn't put much money on it.
 

Unless a "convenient" stable wormhole magically appears somewhere, of course. *coughdeusexmachinacough*

Anyone who's really opposed to stuff showing up exactly when the heroes need it shouldn't have gotten through ME1, let alone the series.

[Heimerdinger]

Isnt that quote from before the EC? When the Relays exploded?

Well they dont do that anymore.

 

It is. The relays were destroyed pre-EC but I don't remember them going out in supernova style. I'm just trying to get into the writers head and think how the leak could work best. If the leak is even true.

[themikefest]

Just my experience but it seemed like almost nobody really believed in the Crucible, it was more just facing annihilation that made people desperate enough to support anything - even a "magic bullet". In that setting, I could totally see anybody from the rich to the insane to the powerful building their own backup/escape plans, in fact it would be that type of desperation that would probably make something like an Ark more feasible than had it been built during peacetime.

 

The crucible was a huge project, so its possible, but I would find it hard to believe that others were able to build a ship/ark, give it the magic needed to make a trip to another galaxy in that short amount of time without anyone knowing. 

 

How many would be needed to build a ship large enough to carry how ever many in the time the reapers show up to the time the crucible fires? Its possible they could use a ship from a junkyard, but that still would take a lot of time to get it space worthy. The Normandy's retrofits took 6 months to do. 

[ElitePinecone]

None of them prepared for anything.

 

That's what they told Shepard. We aren't privy to every secret in the galaxy, and the asari had some sort of plan in place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

There are other routes they could go, too: corporations, industrialists, private conglomerates on independent worlds. ME1 in particular introduced a strong theme of hugely powerful (and unethical) corporations that was never really followed up in the other games. 

 

It doesn't take a genius to see Sovereign, the "disappearance" of the Protheans and the destruction caused by one Reaper and add it all up to conclude that an escape plan might be a good idea.  

[themikefest]

 

And the asari in particular are used to keeping secrets. 

And look what happened. The idiots cried wolf at the last minute for Shepard to save their sorry a**es by revealing the artifact only after the reapers were knocking on their backdoor. Had the idiots revealed that artifact earlier, its possible the crucible could've been used earlier and many lives might've been saved. 

 

They may have other secrets about whatever, but I wouldn't be surprised if another one of their stupid secrets backfires and have them crying like babies again