2122 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

None of them prepared for anything.
 
That was the core problem and plot motivator of ME3.

Trololololo.

That's what they told Shepard.

Same logic applies to the Citadel archives, which only updates after Commander Shepard (or K/A) accesses the info and sees the "suspected" Reaper info. What pops up for other Spectres?

"Commander Shepard suspects that this may be a Reaper, but we've dismissed that claim."

Let alone the fact that the data could have been updated at any point between the end of ME1 and the midway point of ME3, notably after the Reapers invaded.

"Oh, yeah, right, uh, so Sovereign really was one of those things now invading our galaxy. Scribbles, go make a note in the archives."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"Oh, yeah, right, uh, so Sovereign really was one of those things now invading our galaxy. Scribbles, go make a note in the archives."

I want Josephine in Mass Effect now. 

[Iakus]

Not if Plan C is started before the first two. 

 

It's entirely possible that an ark was started before the Crucible, and even before the war with the Reapers. The galaxy knew of the existence of Sovereign way back in 2183.

And in three years they not only managed to develop a propulsion system that can cross the gulf of dark space between galaxies, but managed to secretly build a ship (or more likely several ships, to accommodate several races) and launch them without anybody finding out.  Without disrupting the war effort or the Crucible project.

 

This sort of stretch makes the thorian look plausible.

[ElitePinecone]

Let alone the fact that the data could have been updated at any point between the end of ME1 and the midway point of ME3, notably after the Reapers invaded.

 

Maybe, maybe not. The writers could enforce either interpretation depending on where they wanted to go with the story.

 

After the Citadel DLC there's enough there to suggest that the Council knew about the Reapers after ME1, if that's what BW wanted to do. 

 

I suspect, in fact, that part of the reason for including that archived file (even if it doesn't turn out to be foreshadowing an ark project) was to make the Council seem not as colossally stupid as they were presented in ME/ME2/ME3. 

 

That, or it's just trolling people by saying their lack of trust in Shepard, which became a fan joke, was an act all along.

[Iakus]

 
Anyone who's really opposed to stuff showing up exactly when the heroes need it shouldn't have gotten through ME1, let alone the series.

Do you see me happy with the direction the series took?

[Iakus]

 

 

That, or it's just trolling people by saying their lack of trust in Shepard, which became a fan joke, was an act all along.

This is the dlc with the volus pizza delivery guy 

[dreamgazer]

Do you see me happy with the direction the series took?

He does have a point, though. ME1 has major contrivances conveniences, too.

[ElitePinecone]

And in three years they not only managed to develop a propulsion system that can cross the gulf of dark space between galaxies, but managed to secretly build a ship (or more likely several ships, to accommodate several races) and launch them without anybody finding out.  Without disrupting the war effort or the Crucible project.

 

This sort of stretch makes the thorian look plausible.

 

These are all areas that we've discussed to death previously, so I'll just say that none of this stuff is as implausible as you say it is, and suggest that we wait for further information. I have no interest in wasting any more time on a conversation that goes nowhere productive or worthwhile. 

[Iakus]

"Conveniences" which I'd hoped would be further explored/explained.  Not added to.

[dreamgazer]

"Conveniences" which I'd hoped would be further explored/explained.  Not added to.

 

That hope wasn't very realistic, though, since it's not the responsibility of future stories to do that.

 

A convenience in ME1 is a convenience in ME1.  If there wasn't another story in the series, that's all there would be.

[Torgette]

The crucible was a huge project, so its possible, but I would find it hard to believe that others were able to build a ship/ark, give it the magic needed to make a trip to another galaxy in that short amount of time without anyone knowing. 

 

How many would be needed to build a ship large enough to carry how ever many in the time the reapers show up to the time the crucible fires? Its possible they could use a ship from a junkyard, but that still would take a lot of time to get it space worthy. The Normandy's retrofits took 6 months to do. 

 

Maybe, Cerberus was able to build fantastic space stations and bases and fleets in their spare time, they were even able to build a replica normandy in 2 years. I think the thing that made the Crucible such a huge undertaking wasn't just scale but also the alien nature of the device and that it had to be built in months rather than years. I think the only missing piece is how they get to Andromeda because it's basically the magic cut-off point for all the lore regarding whether the reapers or previous cycles could travel that far.

[Nohvarr]

I like you. You get the concept of us not knowing everything. Most in this thread do not.

Certain posters are not interest in acknowledging that possibility in this instance. Thus according to those same posters Emperor Palpatine unloading with Force lightening in Return of the Jedi breaks lore since we never saw it in either of the previous films.

 

When it comes right down to it, some people want to stay in the Milkway. Perhaps they feel a better story could be told there, perhaps they just want to see familiar sites like the Citadel, or perhaps they just want to force Bioware to make a canon ending that overwrites what occurred in ME3. Whatever their reason, they're not going to budge on this issue, as 57 pages of circular arguing shows.

[themikefest]

Maybe, Cerberus was able to build fantastic space stations and bases and fleets in their spare time,

Won't those  built  before ME1 happened? The space stations anyways. They had plenty of time for those
 

they were even able to build a replica normandy in 2 years.

Yes they did. Is the ark/ship going to be the same size? Or will it have to be bigger to have X number of personnel on the ark/ship? Or are they building multiple ships/arks?
 

I think the thing that made the Crucible such a huge undertaking wasn't just scale but also the alien nature of the device and that it had to be built in months rather than years.

I'm sure the crucible had a lot more helping build the thing than what would be needed to build an ark/ship since the crucible is so large. Also Hackett mentioned that it was simple/elegant in the design.
 

I think the only missing piece is how they get to Andromeda because it's basically the magic cut-off point for all the lore regarding whether the reapers or previous cycles could travel that far.

That's up to the writers if the game takes place in another galaxy. They can write whatever they want.

[dreamgazer]

Certain posters are not interest in acknowledging that possibility in this instance.

When it comes to traveling to other galaxies? Yeah, I think the hesitation is quite justified.

Thus according to those same posters Emperor Palpatine unloading with Force lightening in Return of the Jedi breaks lore since we never saw it in either of the previous films.

You realize that you're talking about literal space magic, right?

[Nohvarr]

When it comes to traveling to other galaxies? Yeah, I think the hesitation is quite justified.


You realize that you're talking about literal space magic, right?

.....you do realize that space travel in ME is powered by a magical substance called Element Zero....heck a LOT of their technology and all their Biotics are the result of Element Zero (Aka Unobtanium/Dilithium/etc)

[dreamgazer]

.....you do realize that space travel in ME is powered by a magical substance called Element Zero....

Which has, until now, obeyed certain limitations.

Doing this, especially during our "primitive" cycle who has limited understanding of it, will open a huge can of worms about Eezo's possibilities and the capabilities of billions of years of advanced civilizations.

[Nohvarr]

Which has, until now, obeyed certain limitations.

Doing this, especially during our "primitive" cycle who has very little understanding of it, will open a huge can of worms about Eezo's possibilities and the capabilities of billions of years of advanced civilizations.

.....just like how the force, until that moment, had shown no ability to allow it's wielders to discharge massive amounts of electrical energy.

 

Basically you admit that our cycle dosen't WIDLY know the full potential of Eezo though the Reapers clearly show that most people have only scratched the surface of it's potential. Considering ME 2 opens with Shepard being brought back to life and possibly being granted Biotic abilites after very clearly being DEAD, a feat unseens until that point, I really can't discount the possibility that there's a way to manipulate Eezo to allow for travel between galaxies....or that there's not another technique that would allow us to travel that far. Do not forget, the Reapers intentionally leave Eezo based tech behind BECAUSE they fear that organics would discover a superior method of space travel that would take away their advantage. Considering Shepards report and the massive Reaper that crashed into the Citadel in ME 1, I for one wouldn't be surprised if groups of scientist began to quietly search for ways to travel around the galaxy that didn't require Mass Effect based technology.

[Iakus]

That hope wasn't very realistic, though, since it's not the responsibility of future stories to do that.

 

A convenience in ME1 is a convenience in ME1.  If there wasn't another story in the series, that's all there would be.

Yes, and thus why I am now soured on the whole concept of multi-game storyarcs.  

[Torgette]

Won't those  built  before ME1 happened? The space stations anyways. They had plenty of time for those
 

Yes they did. Is the ark/ship going to be the same size? Or will it have to be bigger to have X number of personnel on the ark/ship? Or are they building multiple ships/arks?
 

I'm sure the crucible had a lot more helping build the thing than what would be needed to build an ark/ship since the crucible is so large. Also Hackett mentioned that it was simple/elegant in the design.
 

That's up to the writers if the game takes place in another galaxy. They can write whatever they want.

 

Sure, which is why it would have to be a combined effort and not something done by just one private company or even one government (though I suppose the Quarians could do it). Of course if it takes place in the milky way it begs the question why even need one big hub ship? I would assume the need for one hub ship is because it's more efficient to move one big ship to another galaxy than a bunch of little ships, regardless if it's through a wormhole or not.

[dreamgazer]

.....just like how the force, until that moment, had shown no ability to allow it's wielders to discharge massive amounts of electrical energy.

Again, literal space magic. There is a difference between an exploited mineral and a sorcerer's spells.
 

Basically you admit that our cycle dosen't WIDLY know the full potential of Eezo though the Reapers clearly show that most people have only scratched the surface of it's potential. Considering ME 2 opens with Shepard being brought back to life and possibly being granted Biotic abilites after very clearly being DEAD, a feat unseens until that point, I really can't discount the possibility that there's a way to manipulate Eezo to allow for travel between galaxies....or that there's not another technique that would allow us to travel that far. Do not forget, the Reapers intentionally leave Eezo based tech behind BECAUSE they fear that organics would discover a superior method of space travel that would take away their advantage. Considering Shepards report and the massive Reaper that crashed into the Citadel in ME 1, I for one wouldn't be surprised if groups of scientist began to quietly search for ways to travel around the galaxy that didn't require Mass Effect based technology.

And they would be able to do this in ... three years? Seriously?

Why haven't other cycles researched different methods? Having Eezo doesn't mean they don't research other things. Why don't we have a workable alternative?

Why haven't folks from Andromeda made the journey over here, if it's so feasible?

[Iakus]

.....just like how the force, until that moment, had shown no ability to allow it's wielders to discharge massive amounts of electrical energy.

 

Basically you admit that our cycle dosen't WIDLY know the full potential of Eezo though the Reapers clearly show that most people have only scratched the surface of it's potential. Considering ME 2 opens with Shepard being brought back to life and possibly being granted Biotic abilites after very clearly being DEAD, a feat unseens until that point, I really can't discount the possibility that there's a way to manipulate Eezo to allow for travel between galaxies....or that there's not another technique that would allow us to travel that far. Do not forget, the Reapers intentionally leave Eezo based tech behind BECAUSE they fear that organics would discover a superior method of space travel that would take away their advantage. Considering Shepards report and the massive Reaper that crashed into the Citadel in ME 1, I for one wouldn't be surprised if groups of scientist began to quietly search for ways to travel around the galaxy that didn't require Mass Effect based technology.

This cycle has been playing with eezo for two thousand years, and has ignored any alternative.  It has been developing down the path the Reapers intended.  It's going to take a good long time to figure out alternatives.  The cycle would basically be starting from scratch.

 

As for using eezo in new ways, well, how many millions of years more advanced are the Reapers?  And even they don't show any sign of intergalactic travel.

[dreamgazer]

As for using eezo in new ways, well, how many millions of years more advanced are the Reapers?  And even they don't show any sign of intergalactic travel.

Yeah, see, that's the thing. If we crack travel to other galaxies, then we've got to address the Reapers' ability to travel to other galaxies, especially under the conditions of Noah's Space Ark where running away from the cuttlefish is the entire purpose. Saying "they don't go there because they didn't ever want to" isn't going to cut it.

[Nohvarr]

Again, literal space magic. There is a difference between an exploited mineral and a sorcerer's spells.
 

Not when the limitations of said mineral are unknown, especially since the Reapers appeared to hide a lot of what it could really do.

 

But if you can't accept that, then let's look at Transwarp conduits from Star Trek, which weren't discovered until the Enterprise literally fell into one while in pursuit of a Borg Cube.

 

 

 

And they would be able to do this in ... three years? Seriously?

 

Just because you didn't read all the research papers discussing alternatives to Eezo, or see the work done doesn't mean they don't exist. For all you know people have been toying with the idea for over a thousand years, but it never got off the ground due to the prevalence of Eezo tech. The Reapers give people a reason to invest and they come up with a workable system in short order. I mean they converted weapons to Geth spec in less than two years so this won't be an issue.
 

 

Why haven't other cycles researched different methods? Having Eezo doesn't mean they don't research other things. Why don't we have a workable alternative?

 

Because the Reapers killed them before they got to far, I mean they did leave a guard dog to watch for that kind of thing.
 

 

Why haven't folks from Andromeda made the journey over here, if it's so feasible?

 

Because they don't have a compelling reason to leave...

 

 

As for using eezo in new ways, well, how many millions of years more advanced are the Reapers?  And even they don't show any sign of intergalactic travel.

 

1. Programming error that made them focus on the Milkway.

2. They assumed they'd reached the pinnacle of development and thus saw no reason to move beyond what they could do. I mean it's stated that they spend the time between cycles powered down and conserving power. Doesn't exactly sound as if they're engaged in research and development

3. Trapped by their own purpose the Reapers failed to improve themselves, so it's not hard to see organics moving past their abilities with sufficient motivation. I mean we've seen how lazy and disinterested their creators were in doing anything themselves, not hard to see this trait transferring over.

[Sion1138]

That's what they told Shepard. We aren't privy to every secret in the galaxy, and the asari had some sort of plan in place. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It's not about what they told you. It's about what you saw and had to do in the game.

 

I was going to mention that part you underlined as the only possible route.

 

Still, it's not going to work without some massive contrivances, and that's not a good way to start any story.

[Nohvarr]

Still, it's not going to work without some massive contrivances, and that's not a good way to start any story.

As if staying in the Milkway and moving forward after everything that's happened wouldn't require a massive contrivance that would directly contradict the decisions of players.

 

Bioware: So, the galactic apocalypse happened and....turned out it wasn't that bad, cleaned up a few things. Moving on....