Ever play Fallout?
So, wiping out civilization and playing in the shattered remains is more 'Mass Effect' like than taking aspects of that same civilization with it's people to a new location and exploring this new sector of space.....yeah not seeing it.
As if staying in the Milkway and moving forward after everything that's happened wouldn't require a massive contrivance that would directly contradict the decisions of players.
Not really for one thing it keeps things consistant, ark thory on the other hand relies too much on convienences/contrivances.
Not really for one thing it keeps things consistant.
Really? How do you keep things Consistent in a universe that could be radically altered by player choice? You don't.
You either re-write the ending to lessen the impact of their decisions....or ignore them totally and write your own start. Either option creates a break with the previous players continuity. Of course this has been pointed out before in the 58 pages of this thread, so I don't really expect people to who want to stay in the Milk Way to accept that. I'm just pointing it out one more time before moving on with my day.
Yeah, see, that's the thing. If we crack travel to other galaxies, then we've got to address the Reapers' ability to travel to other galaxies, especially under the conditions of Noah's Space Ark where running away from the cuttlefish is the entire purpose. Saying "they don't go there because they didn't ever want to" isn't going to cut it.
Maybe not for you...
Really? How do you keep things Consistent in a universe that could be radically altered by player choice? You don't.
You either re-write the ending to lessen the impact of their decisions....or ignore them totally and write your own start. Either option creates a break with the previous players continuity. Of course this has been pointed out before in the 58 pages of this thread, so I don't really expect people to who want to stay in the Milk Way to accept that. I'm just pointing it out one more time before moving on with my day.
Your already doing that by moving to another galaxy, there is no point in saving the galaxy in the first place if your only going to leave it forever.
Maybe not for you...
He's right though, saying that the reaper's never traveled to other galaxies just because they don't want to is just poor writing and will insult people's intelligence.
He's right though it'll just be poor writing and will only insult people's intelligence.
Of course...
Your already doing that by moving to another galaxy, there is no point in saving the galaxy in the first place if your only going to leave it forever.
So I shouldn't give money to charity, or volunteer to build houses or feed the poor just because I will never see those people again?
......Seriously? Saving all life in the previous game is rendered moot because the story moves onto new locations and new challenges?
Is that how you really feel?
Of course...
*snip*
Is asking for consistent writing and having no hand waving/contrivances too much to ask?
So I shouldn't give money to charity, or volunteer to build houses or feed the poor just because I will never see those people again?
......Seriously? Saving all life in the previous game is rendered moot because the story moves onto new locations and new challenges?
Is that how you really feel?
Missing the point, its only going to be wasted potential because there is so much more the galaxy has to offer and its never going to be used.
Is asking for consistent writing and having no hand waving/contrivances too much to ask?
See, you're willing to accept inconsistent writing and hand waving/contrivances as long as they are used to stay in a Milk Way galaxy that should be significantly changed by the events of the previous games, so you really don't have a leg to stand on here.
Missing the point, its only going to be wasted potential because there is so much more the galaxy has to offer and its never going to be used.
You stated there was no point saving the galaxy since we're leaving it, possible forever, which made no sense. Now you are talking about wasted potential. The thing is, to get to that potential would require over writing the players previous decisions and thus engaging in that Inconsistent writing/hand waving/contrivances you claim to be against. The other option is to let those endings and player head-canon stand by moving to a new location. You get the culture and back story of the ME verse, it's people facing new challenges, and you avoid retconing the endings.
See, you're willing to accept inconsistent writing and hand waving/contrivances as long as they are used to stay in a Milk Way galaxy that should be significantly changed by the events of the previous games, so you really don't have a leg to stand on here.
I never said such a thing your putting words in my mouth.
You stated there was no point saving the galaxy since we're leaving it, possible forever, which made no sense. Now you are talking about wasted potential. The thing is, to get to that potential would require over writing the players previous decisions and thus engaging in that Inconsistent writing/hand waving/contrivances you claim to be against. The other option is to let those endings and player head-canon stand by moving to a new location. You get the culture and back story of the ME verse, it's people facing new challenges, and you avoid retconing the endings.
The fact of the matter is that Bioware are going to have to deal with the endings sooner or later, moving to another galaxy won't make the issue's of the endings go away they'll still be their. Bioware should have the decency to try and deal with the endings while being consistent and respecting players choices as best as possible which is what I'm arguing for. Trying to avoid dealing with the issue's of the endings will only prove that they aren't willing to face their own problems in order to improve themselves.
Really? How do you keep things Consistent in a universe that could be radically altered by player choice? You don't.
You either re-write the ending to lessen the impact of their decisions....or ignore them totally and write your own start. Either option creates a break with the previous players continuity. Of course this has been pointed out before in the 58 pages of this thread, so I don't really expect people to who want to stay in the Milk Way to accept that. I'm just pointing it out one more time before moving on with my day.
The original endings were designed to end the continuity. It was Mass Effect: Ragnarok. The end of the story. No more stuff afterwards.
Now we know that is not the case. So... yeah, lessening or ignoring the endings is entirely appropriate. Because the plan changed. More stories are going to be told.
Is asking for consistent writing and having no hand waving/contrivances too much to ask?
By BSN standards? Yes.
See, you're willing to accept inconsistent writing and hand waving/contrivances as long as they are used to stay in a Milk Way galaxy that should be significantly changed by the events of the previous games, so you really don't have a leg to stand on here.
If they really wanted to stay consistent they'd end the IP here and now. No more sequels, as originally planned. But they're not.
You stated there was no point saving the galaxy since we're leaving it, possible forever, which made no sense. Now you are talking about wasted potential. The thing is, to get to that potential would require over writing the players previous decisions and thus engaging in that Inconsistent writing/hand waving/contrivances you claim to be against. The other option is to let those endings and player head-canon stand by moving to a new location. You get the culture and back story of the ME verse, it's people facing new challenges, and you avoid retconing the endings.
By tossing in yet more space magic and relocating to a completely different part of the universe so the ending doesn't matter anyway.
WHy not just call it a new IP and be done with it?
By BSN standards? Yes.
Hardly its rather reasonable considering people would ask for the same thing for other games.
As if staying in the Milkway and moving forward after everything that's happened wouldn't require a massive contrivance that would directly contradict the decisions of players.
Bioware: So, the galactic apocalypse happened and....turned out it wasn't that bad, cleaned up a few things. Moving on....
I would have gone forward from the majority choice.
Taking the mass of players and treating them as a hive-mind.
Maybe not for you...
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think it would automatically be a huge project on the scale of the crucible to travel to a different galaxy. There are lots of good non-monetary reasons why you would have technology that could get you there, but it never gets used.
This is currently the case for interstellar travel in real life. We have technology that could get big groups of people between star systems, with estimated costs low enough that a megacorp could potentially build one. We don't do this because:
1) It would cost $400 billion+ dollars, which is pricey but still under half a year of US defense budget spending. It would completely drain a moderately sized group of billionaires to build privately, and it is unlikely you'll find such a group that would be willing to throw away their entire fortunes on the endeavor in our current environment
2) The most viable methods for doing this involve building large stockpiles of essentially nuclear weapons to use as fuel for the trip, so the most likely current outcome would be getting arrested by the NSA for attempting to privately build nukes
3) You would have a decent chance of blowing up and killing everyone on board, because at $400 billion/shot, you can't really afford to make full scale test rockets, and initial rocket designs often fail despite all the computer modeling
4) It would take generations to get there, so the people that launch will all die on that ship in space, and their decendants would be the ones to possibly colonize a new system
5) If you don't end up having a habitable planet when you get there, everyone on the ship will eventually die because there won't be fuel to go anywhere else
6) You'll kill a few people on earth with radioactive fallout from launching the ship, and may fry electronics from EMP in a localized area
These are all really good reasons not to build an orion drive and go flying off to try and expand humanity to the stars, which is why we haven't done it. But we do know how to do it and it could be done with a relatively small fraction of earth's GDP if there was a sufficiently strong motivator. You can bet that multiple individuals or groups would build an interstellar ark if our solar system came under an existential threat. It is entirely reasonable that the civilizations in the mass effect universe know how to get to Andromeda but have never tried because of similar reasons. In particular, spending a sum of money that could purchase a large corporation on an endeavor where everyone currently buying into it will be dead before it does anything is a tough sell in attracting investors.
He's right though, saying that the reaper's never traveled to other galaxies just because they don't want to is just poor writing and will insult people's intelligence.
The fact of the matter is that Bioware are going to have to deal with the endings sooner or later, moving to another galaxy won't make the issue's of the endings go away they'll still be their. Bioware should have the decency to try and deal with the endings while being consistent and respecting players choices as best as possible which is what I'm arguing for. Trying to avoid dealing with the issue's of the endings will only prove that they aren't willing to face their own problems in order to improve themselves.
And right here is where you prove my previous statment right about people wanting to force bioware to deal with the endings. The simple truth is they never have to deal with them again. The original plan for the series was to end at 3, with no sequel, spinoffs or anything else. Mass Effect 3 would end the series and they'd move onto something else, a decision I respected. However, they've decided to give you another game set in the same universe just in a distant galaxy, and going by what they've posted so far, you will only be exploring a portion of it throughout this game. They could ride the Andromeda Galaxy as far as story telling for YEARS and never even say a word about the endings of the original trilogy.
Now we know that is not the case. So... yeah, lessening or ignoring the endings is entirely appropriate. Because the plan changed. More stories are going to be told.
But they don't have to be told in the same place, moving away to another galaxy is a viable option and respects the decisions of previous players while also maintaining the idea that the ME trilogy had a definite end. Also, I find it fascinating that people are now okay with Bioware changing their mind about this considering how they blew up about Leliana still being alive, Udina being councilor and other much more minor changes.
WHy not just call it a new IP and be done with it?
Because the back story is the same as Mass Effects up to a point where it diverges and goes a different way. I mean Stargate Atlantis is still considered apart of the Stargate series despite taking place in the Pegasus galaxy. Voyager is still a Star trek series despite taking place far away from anything remotely familiar.
I do not care about player choices.
That much is obvious.
If the Reapers have the means to travel to Andromeda, then it makes them and their 50k years between cycles look incredibly myopic.
Or, they never thought to apply their own tech in that manner, which fits as they seem to have stagnated at the same level they were when they were first created.
Or, they never thought to apply their own tech in that manner, which fits as they seem to have stagnated at the same level they were when they were first created.
Really? Now we're to: "They never thought about it"? Yikes.
They missed the crucible and all it implied....so yeah, blind spots, it happens.
And of course that's only IF the technique in question is in fact based on Reaper tech. If not then it's simply an avenue they did not pursue....just like how the Federation wasn't perusing transwarp Conduit tech until the borg made it clear that was a thing.
So, wiping out civilization and playing in the shattered remains is more 'Mass Effect' like than taking aspects of that same civilization with it's people to a new location and exploring this new sector of space?
Yes. Because it represents direct continuity.
Yes. Because it represents direct continuity.
But it doesn't represent the spirit of Mass Effect. If you want a Wasteland game there's Fallout and Wasteland 2 and even the diesel punk game Insomnia.
They missed the crucible and all it implied....so yeah, blind spots, it happens.
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