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[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Reapers were never programmed for solely the Milky Way. They were programmed to preserve life at any cost. We get that straight from Leviathan and the Catalyst, neither saying there are restrictions.

 

There is no evidence that says the Milky Way was the only galaxy they harvested, but there is evidence, granted circumstantial evidence, that they could very well have gone to other galaxies. They have the capability, they have the resources, and they have the will to do so, so there is no logical reason they wouldn't.

 

If so, having a Relay reach Andromeda could potentially work as a way to avoid the issues that such a trip would face. They can even replicate a Reaper IFF like Cerberus did and use that to use it.

 

And the Reapers wouldn't even have to be an issue. Either they are friendly, dead, or more busy with their mandate for centuries if not millennium until they come to Andromeda. The only Reaper to worry about would be the vanguard left behind, but he doesn't have to appear since he can be in a hibernation cycle. 

[TheJiveDJ]

Meh. Personally, I think the more they distance themselves from the original trilogy, the better. Perhaps some fan service and references sprinkled throughout. ME3 has still left a slightly bitter taste in my mouth.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Really? Now we're to "They never thought about it" over millions (nearly a billion) years? Yikes.

Over a billion years at least, actually. The dead Reaper known as the Leviathan of Dis was dated to be a billion years old, so the cycles had to have been going on at least that long. 

[Iakus]

 

If so, having a Relay reach Andromeda could potentially work as a way to avoid the issues that such a trip would face. They can even replicate a Reaper IFF like Cerberus did and use that to use it.

Well, exxept if there's a relay that reaches Andromeda, then the endings would reach Andromeda as well.  And thus defeat the whole point of running away from the endings relocating to another galaxy.  

[dreamgazer]

Over a billion years at least, actually. The dead Reaper known as the Leviathan of Dis was dated to be a billion years old, so the cycles had to have been going on at least that long.

I know, but a few people get bent outta shape when the Dis is referenced as an age marker for the Reapers, so I typically just talk in millions and get the same point across.

[dreamgazer]

Well, exxept if there's a relay that reaches Andromeda, then the endings would reach Andromeda as well.

Not necessarily.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, exxept if there's a relay that reaches Andromeda, then the endings would reach Andromeda as well.  And thus defeat the whole point of running away from the endings relocating to another galaxy.  

That doesn't have to be the case. It could be that the Crucible only has the power to affect the Milky Way galaxy, or something as simple as the Intergalactic Mass Relay we use gets damaged or destroyed. That cuts us off from returning to the Milky Way and stops the Crucible's effects from reaching Andromeda, but still lets us keep in contact with the Milky Way if Bioware is going to do that. 

[AlanC9]

The "leak" specifies Andromeda.
 
But even one of the closer dwarf galaxies  like the Magellanic Clouds would take a prohibitively long period of time to reach, albiet years rather than centuries.

I was actually thinking of something further. I'm betting on a wormhole, so distance isn't an obstacle. But if the leak or whatever says Andromeda, then that's out for now.

[AlanC9]

Seriously?

I'm feeling more charitable than dreamgazer is tonight, I guess, so I'll sort it out for you. We have no actual knowledge of what Reapers do between cycles. All we have are Vigil's speculations. These are exactly as reliable as Codex entries. Bio can change this at will.

[dlux]

Reapers play poker while waiting in deep space (intergalactic space) between harvesting cycles, because it gets awfully boring out there.

[ZoliCs]

I'm feeling more charitable than dreamgazer is tonight, I guess, so I'll sort it out for you. We have no actual knowledge of what Reapers do between cycles. All we have are Vigil's speculations. These are exactly as reliable as Codex entries. Bio can change this at will.

 

Not sure what you want to sort out for me, I'm well aware of what the Reapers do. My comment was about dreamgazer belittling people by attacking their credibility instead of their argument.

 

In answer to the second part of your post we do know. Vigil's theory (theory =/= speculation) might not be proof enough alone, but there's also the scene at the end of Mass Effect 2 when the Reapers power up in Dark Space, and it is stated in the very second line in their wiki page as well: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

[Nohvarr]

It is running away because the issue's regarding the ending will still be there and is going to catch up to them eventually.

How? I mean they closed that story, whether you like it or not, and are under no compulsion or obligation to deal with the endings ever again. Oh sure some fans who won't let it go will hound them about it, but honestly there's really nothing they can do to force them to change the endings, especially if this new direction is critically and commercially succesful.

 

Seriously.

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

 

 

 

The Reapers are a highly-advanced machine race of synthetic-organic starships. The Reapers reside in dark space: the vast, mostly starless space between galaxies. They hibernate there, dormant for fifty thousand years at a time, before returning to the galaxy.

 

 

 

The Catalyst reveals that the Reapers came into being long ago when the Leviathans conceived it to seek a solution to the inevitable struggle between organics and synthetics. However, it decided that the Leviathans too risked conflict with synthetics and, using an army of "pawns", forcibly processed them into Harbinger. Despite this betrayal, the surviving Leviathans do not believe the Catalyst was a "mistake" and believe the Catalyst's use of the Reapers is part of an experiment on a galactic scale to seek a truly permanent method of preserving life. For millions of years, the Reapers existed for the sole purpose of ensuring the ongoing existence of organic life in the galaxy, based on the assumption that all synthetic intelligences will eventually destroy their organic creators.

The continuity of life in the galaxy is assured through this cycle of extinction, as it ensures that organic life will never be fully exterminated before its time by synthetic life, as was demonstrated by the quarians and the geth.

 

Again, it comes down to technology.  The ability to move that far simply doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist as far as your Shepard knows, that's not the same as it simply not existing. Your Shepard didn't know it was possible to bring a person back from the dead, or use a Thanix canon on a Ship till they say both in action.

 

Sovereign implies that the presence of the mass relays would lead the sentient species down a predetermined route with regards to weapons and armor technology (both of which are based upon element zero technology for the Citadel races). As Sovereign explains, "By using it [mass relay technology] your society develops along the paths we desire." The relays also serve to reduce the amount of time it takes for galactic civilization to advance, thus shortening the time between the Reapers' harvests.

 

Paths Reapers can predict, so what happens when organics step off that path?

[Sion1138]

I will clarify, what was the intent, the theme of the game at the outset, what informed the decisions of devs. In their own words:

 

[stuff]

 

I think that about sums it up. Anyways, I have other things to do so if I don't get back to your replies that's fine, like Bioware and the endings to ME 3, I am under no obligation to return to this revolving argument.

 

I have no words.

[Iakus]

 

It doesn't exist as far as your Shepard knows, that's not the same as it simply not existing. Your Shepard didn't know it was possible to bring a person back from the dead, or use a Thanix canon on a Ship till they say both in action.

 

You do realize that I find the Lazarus Project the most idiotic plot device in the series pre-Crucible, right?

 

Simply waving one's hand and saying "now this is possible" doesn't automatically make it a brilliant plot twist.

 

 

Paths Reapers can predict, so what happens when organics step off that path?

 

Well, given this cycle was moving along the path the Reapers wanted right up until the day they invaded it may take a while to see what happens when people step off that path.

 

I seriously doubt developing and building intergalactic spaceships will be done in a couple of years. 

[dreamgazer]

We have no actual knowledge of what Reapers do between cycles. All we have are Vigil's speculations. These are exactly as reliable as Codex entries.

 
Less reliable, actually, and citing the Mass Effect wiki's idea of what goes on in the universe doesn't help. 
 

Not sure what you want to sort out for me, I'm well aware of what the Reapers do. My comment was about dreamgazer belittling people by attacking their credibility instead of their argument.

 
For saying that a citation is needed for a "theory" that has zero concrete evidence and is based on blind conjecture? That is belittling?


 

In answer to the second part of your post we do know. Vigil's theory (theory =/= speculation) might not be proof enough alone, but there's also the scene at the end of Mass Effect 2 when the Reapers power up in Dark Space, and it is stated in the very second line in their wiki page as well: http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

Theory absolutely does equal speculation in this case. They have no basis of research to make it a theory, since they have no way of observing either the Reapers or neighboring galaxies. Those 50k years ... Fifty. Thousand. Years. ... exist absolutely in the space of the unknown.
 
"Power up in Dark Space"? Wut? All it shows is countless Reapers coming into view as they zerg-rush the Milky Way. 
 

[ZoliCs]

For saying that a citation is needed for a "theory" that has zero concrete evidence and is based on blind conjecture? That is belittling?

It's neither a theory nor has no concrete evidence. Good try though.

[dreamgazer]

It's neither a theory nor has no concrete evidence. Good try though.

Present said evidence, please.

[Heimdall]

 Theory absolutely does equal speculation in this case. They have no basis of research to make it a theory, since they have no way of observing either the Reapers or neighboring galaxies. Those 50k years ... Fifty. Thousand. Years. ... exist absolutely in the space of the unknown.

I feel like I should mention this because that 50k figure gets thrown around incorrectly a lot, though I'm not actually arguing with you.  The time between cycles lasts until the Vanguard, Sovereign in our case, determines that the galaxy has reached some minimum point of technological advancement, not a set timeframe.  It could be significantly shorter or longer depending on the cycle.

[Iakus]

That doesn't have to be the case. It could be that the Crucible only has the power to affect the Milky Way galaxy, or something as simple as the Intergalactic Mass Relay we use gets damaged or destroyed. That cuts us off from returning to the Milky Way and stops the Crucible's effects from reaching Andromeda, but still lets us keep in contact with the Milky Way if Bioware is going to do that. 

That would still smack of contrivance, though.

 

Not to mention calls of Mass Effect:  Universe. 

[dreamgazer]

I feel like I should mention this because that 50k figure gets thrown around incorrectly a lot, though I'm not actually arguing with you.  The time between cycles lasts until the Vanguard, Sovereign in our case, determines that the galaxy has reached some minimum point of technological advancement, not a set timeframe.  It could be significantly shorter or longer depending on the cycle.

"Apex of their glory".

Really, it could be a fifth of the time, maybe even a tenth, and the same logic would apply.

[ZoliCs]

http://masseffect.wi...a_awakening.png

 

Also ever heared of writer's intention? Why would they constantly saying that the Reapers are dormant in Dark Space, have it all over the internet too if they didn't mean it. Obviously they could change it, but that's a rather shallow argument. You are using this as an argument against the Ark Theory, which, if the leak is true, is Bioware's intention of moving the IP forward.

So you are suggesting that they'd make a change in the Reaper's lore in order to make their own Ark story worse? Interesting...

[Heimdall]

"Apex of their glory".

Really, it could be a fifth of the time, maybe even a tenth, and the same logic would apply.

Maybe, but it starts to strain credulity that the Reapers would be able to constantly be traveling from one galaxy to another to wage apocalyptic wars with an uncertain timetable.

[dreamgazer]

http://masseffect.wi...a_awakening.png

I'm supposed to be interested in what Temporaryeditor78 named the image?

The video clearly shows the Reapers coming into view, not powering up.
 

Also ever heared of writer's intention?

I have, yes. But we're working in the space of the complete unknown.

"Beyond your comprehension".
 

Why would they constantly saying that the Reapers are dormant in Dark Space, have it all over the internet too if they didn't mean it.

You do realize BioWare doesn't run the Mass Effect wiki, right?

In any event, Vigil's speculation (and it is, indeed, speculation) is the only information available to anyone in the MEU. That's why it's so prevalent: there's no way anyone can actually dispute it, due to a lack of evidence.
 

Obviously they could change it, but that's a rather shallow argument.

Why? Anything's possible if it isn't covered, right? Just look at the geth in ME2.
 

You are using this as an argument against the Ark Theory, which, if the leak is true, is Bioware's intention of moving the IP forward.

... okay? Does that somehow invalidate the concern?

We're talking about tens of thousands of years between harvests.
 

So you are suggesting that they'd make a change in the Reaper's lore in order to make their own Ark story worse? Interesting...

How is it a change to the Reapers' lore if there's zero evidence that it's actually part of the lore?

[dreamgazer]

Maybe, but it starts to strain credulity that the Reapers would be able to constantly be traveling from one galaxy to another to wage apocalyptic wars with an uncertain timetable.

Hey, five-thousand years is still a pretty substantial amount of time.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So when the Codex supports your side, it is absolute fact. But when it doesn't, it is only "what the galaxy knows". Interesting.