2122 réponses à ce sujet

[ElitePinecone]

That relatively smaller part of space will have to be hundreds or thousands of light years across to house "100s of solar systems and 100s of planets" that can be colonized. Conventional FTL wouldn't be efficient since travelling it can take weeks, but that distance is the perfect length for Mass Relays. 

 

A travel time of weeks is actually fairly efficient compared to practically every other form of long-distance travel in human history before the invention of aeroplanes. I don't think it's a dealbreaker if Andromeda has no relays - people will just travel less, and be more deliberate about where they travel because it's not instantaneous like the Milky Way. 

 

(Given neighbouring star systems may be less than ten light years apart, and conventional FTL can achieve 12 LY in a day, I expect that most short-distance trips would be pretty short anyway. Certainly not even as long as it takes to cross from one Earth continent to another by air.)

 

At some point too, especially if a fast travel system is involved, the demands of gameplay have to be given a higher priority than sticking strictly to a literal interpretation of the time and distance. 

 

For instance, it's totally absurd that the Inquisitor (or, any other game character in a non-sci-fi game) can cross enormous distances repeatedly without any time passing, but that's what happens. Journeys that should take months for the player-character are unremarked-upon by everyone else in the world, and nobody gets older even if the player crosses from one side of the world to the other a hundred times. 

[dreamgazer]

It seems rather presumptuous to assume it was ordered to solve the problem everywhere for all time, and frankly doing so elevates the Reapers to a level they don't deserve.

If organic chaos exists in other galaxies (read: if organic life exists in other galaxies) and intergalactic travel is possible, then there will always be a threat that could spread to the Milky Way, a problem the Reapers would be forced to mitigate.

The Intelligence was created to solve a problem for its masters, not for the whole universe.

The Intelligence was created to solve a problem, period, and the Catalyst clearly demonstrates creative extrapolation in its programming. Hence, the harvest of its masters.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A travel time of weeks is actually fairly efficient compared to practically every other form of long-distance travel in human history before the invention of aeroplanes. I don't think it's a dealbreaker if Andromeda has no relays - people will just travel less, and be more deliberate about where they travel because it's not instantaneous like the Milky Way. 

 

(Given neighbouring star systems may be less than ten light years apart, and conventional FTL can achieve 12 LY in a day, I expect that most short-distance trips would be pretty short anyway. Certainly not even as long as it takes to cross from one Earth continent to another by air.)

 

At some point too, especially if a fast travel system is involved, the demands of gameplay have to be given a higher priority than sticking strictly to a literal interpretation of the time and distance. 

 

For instance, it's totally absurd that the Inquisitor (or, any other game character in a non-sci-fi game) can cross enormous distances repeatedly without any time passing, but that's what happens. Journeys that should take months for the player-character are unremarked-upon by everyone else in the world, and nobody gets older even if the player crosses from one side of the world to the other a hundred times. 

It's not a dealbreaker, but it's close. It's like having Star Wars without lightsabers. Can work without them, but it is removing an icon of the franchise. 

 

Short distance trips could be short, but that's assuming that every system there can be used. 

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition has remarks about how much time has passed. For example its mentioned by Josephine that months took place to go from the Inquisitor walking out of the Fade to going to Skyhold. 

[Torgette]

It's not a dealbreaker, but it's close. It's like having Star Wars without lightsabers. Can work without them, but it is removing an icon of the franchise. 

 

Short distance trips could be short, but that's assuming that every system there can be used. 

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition has remarks about how much time has passed. For example its mentioned by Josephine that months took place to go from the Inquisitor walking out of the Fade to going to Skyhold. 

 

Same goes for Skyhold itself, everytime you return from a mission it's slowly more rebuilt, gives you the impression of how much time has passed.

[Iakus]

That's a different question / issue.

The question I posed is that, if highly evolved synthetic life capable of intergalactic travel exists in other galaxies, why would they travel to other galaxies to exterminate organics?

The conflicts we've seen thus far have some motivation behind them.
 

 

Why isn't the question, though.  at least, to the Catalyst.  It's simply an inevitability.  Sooner or later, it will happen.

 

 

You have evidence that anything about the reapers' mandate is intergalactic in scope? I'd like to see it. (that isn't snark, btw)

Not so much intergalactic as "open ended"  Their mandate is to preserve life.  No boundaries or limits given.

[ElitePinecone]

It's not a dealbreaker, but it's close. It's like having Star Wars without lightsabers. Can work without them, but it is removing an icon of the franchise. 

 

Well, sure, but this happens all the time with a bunch of franchises. 

 

Sometimes removing that iconic thing is the whole point of difference. Republic Commando wasn't any less of a Star Wars story just because it focused on military soldiers instead of Jedi. 

[ElitePinecone]

Not so much intergalactic as "open ended"  Their mandate is to preserve life.  No boundaries or limits given.

 

I feel like this is being too selective, though. Why is one interpretation of the Reapers' mandate given more weight as evidence than Vigil blatantly telling us that the Reapers wait out in dark space?

 

The writers could reveal later that Vigil was wrong, sure, but the impression throughout the series so far has been that the Reapers are a Milky Way thing. Their plan, and the vanguard, and the keepers, and the dark space relay, and the Citadel have all been based on them waiting there for 50,000 years, not running around in other galaxies.

 

The writers could also reveal later that the mandate does have a boundary and it does have a limit, because they could just say it does. I bet they didn't even consider the possibility that people would assume the Reapers harvested other galaxies when they wrote those lines in ME3, because absolutely nobody was talking about future games taking place in Andromeda back then.

 

Until the Reapers are actually shown to be visiting another galaxy, I think it's pretty premature to conclude that they do (or should) based on an interpretation of a mandate that hasn't even been properly explained in the games, and probably never will be.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, sure, but this happens all the time with a bunch of franchises. 

 

Sometimes removing that iconic thing is the whole point of difference. Republic Commando wasn't any less of a Star Wars story just because it focused on military soldiers instead of Jedi. 

Except Republic Commando was in the same setting. This new "Mass Effect" game is not if the leaks are true.

If you're going to be in a new setting, it needs to have the icons of the franchise. Even Republic Commando had iconic Jedi in it, just not as the focus. Otherwise it may as well be an entirely different IP. 

[Iakus]

I feel like this is being too selective, though. Why is one interpretation of the Reapers' mandate given more weight as evidence than Vigil blatantly telling us that the Reapers wait out in dark space?

 

The writers could reveal later that Vigil was wrong, sure, but the impression throughout the series so far has been that the Reapers are a Milky Way thing. Their plan, and the vanguard, and the keepers, and the dark space relay, and the Citadel have all been based on them waiting there for 50,000 years, not running around in other galaxies.

 

The writers could also reveal later that the mandate does have a boundary and it does have a limit, because they could just say it does. I bet they didn't even consider the possibility that people would assume the Reapers harvested other galaxies when they wrote those lines in ME3, because absolutely nobody was talking about future games taking place in Andromeda back then.

 

Until the Reapers are actually shown to be visiting another galaxy, I think it's pretty premature to conclude that they do (or should) based on an interpretation of a mandate that hasn't even been properly explained in the games, and probably never will be.

To solve this problem, we created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life at any cost.

 

Not much room to interpret that mandate.

 

That's just it, though.  If we can visit other galaxies, then the Reapers can too.  They are far, far more advanced after all.  And they're effectively immortal, so they don't even have some of the problems he younger races would.

 

Lying dormant in dark space makes sense if they have nothing else to do and nowhere else to go

[ElitePinecone]

 it needs to have the icons of the franchise

 

It has icons of the franchise - a player ship, biotics, alien races, explorable planets, a Mako...

 

Heck, it even has N7, and I think that's more identifiable than the mass relays.

[Heimdall]

If organic chaos exists in other galaxies (read: if organic life exists in other galaxies) and intergalactic travel is possible, then there will always be a threat that could spread to the Milky Way, a problem the Reapers would be forced to mitigate.The Intelligence was created to solve a problem, period, and the Catalyst clearly demonstrates creative extrapolation in its programming. Hence, the harvest of its masters.

We don't know that it was made to solve a problem PERIOD. All we have are contradictory statements from the Reapers themselves, the Leviathans, and the Catalyst. The Reaper mandate is said to be defending the organics from creating synthetics that would destroy them, this does not necessarily include hypothetical synthetics beyond their galaxy or any other intergalactic threat. If it does, they may only act by initiating the cycle early and eliminating the invader.

While the Catalyst can be creative in interpreting its programming, that doesn't mean it reached your conclusions. It may simply have concluded that it should restrict its efforts to the Milky Way as a matter of resources, possibly only until a more ideal solution could be found (Remember that it only considers the cycles a stop gap measure)

[themikefest]

I do agree with some that I would find it hard to believe the reapers traveled to other galaxies to harvest. If they did, how would the crucible space junk reach the other galaxies? From what I know, the Citadel is the only relay that allows travel beyond our galaxy and the signal was altered by the Protheans.

[ElitePinecone]

That's just it, though.  If we can visit other galaxies, then the Reapers can too.  They are far, far more advanced after all.  And they're effectively immortal, so they don't even have some of the problems he younger races would.

 

Lying dormant in dark space makes sense if they have nothing else to do and nowhere else to go

 

Already discussed this, iakus: capability doesn't mean intention. 

 

If the Reapers are limited to the Milky Way (by *whatever* reason Bioware wants to come up with) they absolutely do not have to travel outside our galaxy even if they're technically able to.

 

To the best of our knowledge, the Reapers did stay dormant in dark space, to conserve resources. There's no point hanging around "alive" for 50,000 years when only a few centuries of that time is going to be used for harvesting. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It has icons of the franchise - a player ship, biotics, alien races, explorable planets, a Mako...

 

Heck, it even has N7, and I think that's more identifiable than the mass relays.

There are many games with a player ship, magic, alien races, explorable planets. That describes essentially every space RPG. 

The Mako looks nothing like the Mako from ME1. It doesn't even have a cannon. It's the Mako only in name. 

N7 is the icon of Shepard, not the icon of Mass Effect. Just like the MJOLNIR armor is the icon of Master Chief, but not the icon of Halo.

[Iakus]

It has icons of the franchise - a player ship, biotics, alien races, explorable planets, a Mako...

 

 

Yo mean like Starflight?

 

 

Heck, it even has N7, and I think that's more identifiable than the mass relays.

I'd say the relays are more iconic.  They were the loading screen for at least two of the games, and we've been using them for all three.  Before ME3, the N7 designation was little more than a codex entry and a stripe on Shepard's left shoulder.

[Iakus]

Already discussed this, iakus: capability doesn't mean intention. 

 

If the Reapers are limited to the Milky Way (by *whatever* reason Bioware wants to come up with) they absolutely do not have to travel outside our galaxy even if they're technically able to.

 

To the best of our knowledge, the Reapers did stay dormant in dark space, to conserve resources. There's no point hanging around "alive" for 50,000 years when only a few centuries of that time is going to be used for harvesting. 

 

And I have demonstrated intention: "Preserve life at any cost"  If there is a reason for them not to go to another galaxy beyond inability, it has not been revealed.  If they are technically able to, then I submit they would to further the mandate they have.

Yes, to the best of our knowledge, they have remained in dark space, which to me indicates an inability to further their harvest beyond the galaxy.

[ElitePinecone]

If there is a reason for them not to go to another galaxy beyond inability, it has not been revealed.  

 

Yet.

[ZoliCs]

Yo mean like Starflight?

 

 

There are many games with a player ship, alien races, explorable planets. That describes essentially every space RPG. 

 

So what? They all have them and they are all uniqe.

 

Dragon Age has dwarves, elves, dragons, and mages. I guess you can't distinguish it from LotR, right?

[ElitePinecone]

There are many games with a player ship, alien races, explorable planets. That describes essentially every space RPG. 

The Mako looks nothing like the Mako from ME1. It doesn't even have a cannon. It's the Mako only in name. 

N7 is the icon of Shepard, not the icon of Mass Effect. Just like the MJOLNIR armor is the icon of Master Chief, but not the icon of Halo.

 

I'll tell you what: if NME comes out and millions of people are confused about which series they're playing because a game with asari and krogans and turians and biotics and mass effect weapons and a personal starship and a conversation wheel and a charcter with an N7 insignia on their armour doesn't have mass relays in it, I'll concede you have a point.

[Sion1138]

It has icons of the franchise - a player ship, biotics, alien races, explorable planets, a Mako...

 

Heck, it even has N7, and I think that's more identifiable than the mass relays.

 

I bet you it's Shepard, more than any of those things.

 

N7 pretty much stands for Shepard.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So what? They all have them and they are all uniqe.

 

Dragon Age has dwarves, elves, dragons, and mages. I guess you can't distinguish it from LotR, right?

It means Dwarves, Elves, and Mages aren't icons of Dragon Age or Lord of the Rings. 

 

 

I'll tell you what: if NME comes out and millions of people are confused about which series they're playing because a game with asari and krogans and turians and biotics and mass effect weapons and a personal starship and a conversation wheel and a charcter with an N7 insignia on their armour doesn't have mass relays in it, I'll concede you have a point.

You know that won't happen. The box will say Mass Effect on it.

 

I have a point. The Mass Relays are the icons of the franchise.

The fact you try to ridicule it doesn't help anyone though but just make you look like a jerk. 

[ElitePinecone]

I bet you it's Shepard, more than any of those things.

 

Maybe, but in the absence of Shepard the new team have clearly tried to cling to whatever they can use to remind people that this is still Mass Effect. I don't think Shepard is the *most* iconic thing about the entire franchise, but the N7 armour is quite an iconic part of Shepard.

 

I'm still totally dubious about them using N7, because I think it really has the potential to be either a terrible way of deifying our former character (as if Bioware are saying "look, we totally respect Shepard please don't hate us") or a cheap and nonsensical way to tie the new setting to the old one with a familiar motif. Especially if they start going down the route of N7 becoming a symbol of courage and strength, or whatever, when it was always just a military designation anyway.

[dreamgazer]

We don't know that it was made to solve a problem PERIOD.

"Impose order on the chaos of organic evolution" and "preserve life at all costs" is solving a problem, period.

Never is it prefaced with: "... only in the this galaxy".
 

All we have are contradictory statements from the Reapers themselves, the Leviathans, and the Catalyst. The Reaper mandate is said to be defending the organics from creating synthetics that would destroy them, this does not necessarily include hypothetical synthetics beyond their galaxy or any other intergalactic threat.

Sure, it does, if organic life exists outside the Milky Way that could spread its chaos elsewhere.
 

If it does, they may only act by initiating the cycle early and eliminating the invader.

Or, they could use their tens of thousands of years more wisely and impose their order within a reasonable spread of the universe, while also gathering a broader perspective on their mandate. Instead of sipping whiskey and playing cards.
 

While the Catalyst can be creative in interpreting its programming, that doesn't mean it reached your conclusions.

Organic life is organic life, yes? Organic chaos is organic chaos, yes? Intergalactic travel is intergalactic travel, yes?
 
It's all part of the problem.

It may simply have concluded that it should restrict its efforts to the Milky Way as a matter of resources, possibly only until a more ideal solution could be found (Remember that it only considers the cycles a stop gap measure)

Theoretically, there are resources in Andromeda, too. Hell, the Reapers might actually be made of Andromeda stuff.

They have all the time in the world to gather the resources they need.

[ZoliCs]

It means Dwarves, Elves, and Mages aren't icons of Dragon Age or Lord of the Rings. 

So the Asari, Krogan, Turian, etc are not iconic enough for Mass Effect without the Relays?

[rapscallioness]

No. Hell no to Reapers in the next game. I don't want to see them or hear about them. To hell with them.

 

Personally, I don't care if the game is in the milky way or andromeda. Let's just get on with the adventure already.

 

And I don't know why people are assuming we're traveling to Andromeda through the relays, or through use of our tech. Anything could happen that opened up a way. The crucible could have done some ripping to the fabric of space/time that was only discovered later. If it doesn't happen immediately after the firing. Or maybe these Remnants opened up a wormhole to reach them for mysterious reasons we only discover later as the game progresses. Or maybe the Asari had some more top secret Prothean tech that could help them find a way out. Or maybe the crucible designs had a contingency set of plans within them for the ability to travel and colonize. Maybe we'll run in to some descendants of species from previous cycles that managed to escape. With no knowledge of whats become of the milky way. Hell, maybe the Remnants are themselves an escaped species from a previous cycle.

 

IF any of this leak is even true. Apparently, we're looking for a planet/s for human colonization. Which I don't really understand. What happened to the rest of the milky way? They don't have any planets that humans can colonize? Is the milky way no longer inhabitable?

 

If true, the only thing I can think is that this game starts prior to Shep firing the crucible. At a time when everyone thinks that this is it for the galaxy. They have a colony ship for the Krogan. I imagine other milky way species have their own colony ships, too.