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[dreamgazer]

Then why stop at Tali? It just becomes about who has the loudest voice or the most attention getting methods. Fans drown out other fan feedback. Fans don't give a **** other about fans. They all have their own little "causes", and exclude the bigger picture. I'd rather see the writers look at what's good for everyone and the whole story.

Tali only happened because of Weekes, though, who wrote the Rannoch story arc. That's a more involved situation than simple "fan feedback".

[Vazgen]

 

I like having Tali, but why stop there. It's included for the worst reasons. It just becomes about who has the loudest voice or the most attention getting methods. Fans drown out other fan feedback. Fans don't give a **** other about fans. They all have their own little "causes", and exclude the bigger picture. I'd rather see the writers look at what's good for everyone and the whole story.

That's why it is called feedback Writers and devs make their own decisions based on that feedback. They might listen to it, they might not, it's their prerogative. But the absence of feedback makes them to write and develop things blindly, based solely on their vision. And while it is very important not to lose the vision over the course of the project, the game is ultimately made for the players. You have to please them, that's the rule of the market. And knowing what the fans want only helps with that, it makes it easier for them to please the fans while keeping their original vision.

[Vazgen]

That's probably my issue right there. "Marketing".,

 

I'd like to see games written in the way a typical drama movie, rock album, or novel is created. This market driven mentality is anathema in those circles.

 

And if the game industry "aspired it to be an artform", they'll do this.

Unless they start giving out games for free, that's not going to happen. It's not a matter of "market driven mentality", it's about giving those developers and writers their salary, paying for expenses of using hi-end technology, licensing etc. If you want to make a high quality cinematic experience with engaging gameplay, storyline and characters (like Mass Effect) you have to spend a lot and you need to reach a large number of players to get that money back.

[dreamgazer]

I'd like to see games written in the way a typical drama movie, rock album, or novel is created. This market driven mentality is anathema in those circles.

They do, on the indie market.

Franchises like Mass Effect, however, have much more in common with the likes of Marvel/DC and the Trek/Wars properties. There are many, many layers.

[Vazgen]

You're acting like people can't do this without feedback. Good art is good art.. and it'll create it's own market, without many conscious attempts at appealing that way. 

 

There's popular bands everywhere that still succeed, without pandering. They create a market, instead of trying to fill one. 

 

And I don't think this model can totally apply to games (it could have 20-30 years ago.... and did), but some of it needs to be there.

It is there. People working on games are still very passionate about them. They constantly try new things, refine their technology and skills. The only difference is that now those people have a publisher who gives them budget to make the game and demands compensation for that. Getting rid of the publishers will also get rid of the huge chunk of the budget (as well as some patented technology, like, for example, Frostbite Engine) and you'll never get the same of experience.

The only example of the contrary I know of is Star Citizen which was funded through Kickstarter. I guess we'll have to wait and see how that turns out. But again, fan feedback was one of the most important aspects of their campaign.

[dreamgazer]

I'm glad you're not contradicting me at least.

Because if you did, I'd use your own avatar against you. But no way a Lynch fan would defend marketing too much.

I think the only mainstream appeal that guy ever tried was the "Straight Story". And it was about an old man driving a lawnmower.

They're two different beasts, though, with vastly different audiences (some of which, like myself, overlap) and demands.

Mulholland Drive cost at least a tenth of a major blockbuster's prod budget to make, and appeals to those who are appreciative of intentionally abstract cinema (as in, something that deliberately doesn't make sense on the surface). For all its popularity, that film only generated $20m at the box office. Star Trek and Avengers 2, both considered somewhat lackluster sequels that underwent extensive market analysis and testing/screening, banked at least twenty times that. Those need to work for a hugely diverse audience, both the cynical nerd and the eight-year-old and his/her parents ... each of whom will probably buy themed toys.

I enjoy Lynch, film noir, martial arts, arthouse and foreign, blockbuster sci-fi and comic-book cinema. Acknowledging the necessities of marketing with big-budget franchises doesn't mean I don't appreciate pieces of work divorced from "the machine".

It took guts for BioWare to deliver ME3's ending in that respect. I admire that, even if it wasn't a prudent marketing decision.

[Sion1138]

I personally feel that there are certain connotations to what Bioware did with the trilogy, apart from the merely practical, which should discourage complete artistic freedom.

 

I'm not going to open that bag of cats but I do think that they are keenly aware of this by now, which is why they may not do any continuous trilogies in the future.

[Drone223]

Account for? Not sure what that means in this context.

The Leviathan tells us the relays were built to make the harvests more efficient. I'm pretty much going to go with the idea that they built and placed relays in whatever way they thought would best accommodate the efficiency they sought.

We don't really even know how they found anything in our cycle. In past cycles, they took control of the Citadel and were able to use whatever records it held. Maybe they had indoctrinees feeding them info. Maybe Sovereign had fed them a lot of info. Maybe they have some highly sophisticated long-range scanning ability that help them assess and prioritize targets. We don't know exactly how they locate their targets and determine troop deployment. Apparently, it has something to do with whatever the writers feel will enable the story they want to tell. 

Its easier said than done since the relay's won't be able to cover much of the galaxy there would still be a lot of areas without a relay.

[DWH1982]

Just finished reading the thread.

 

Assuming the leak is true - which I'm reluctant to do until I hear so from Bioware - I have to say that I find myself sympathizing more with the folks who'd like to see Mass Effect stay in the Milky Way. I think that would be my personal preference. There's lots of room for new conflict to develop after the Reaper war, and it would give us a chance to see how old locations have changed/rebuilt, even as we explore new ones.

 

The endings would probably have to be creatively rewritten for that to work. I wouldn't have a problem with that, though I admit my dislike for the endings might play a role in that. The endings were written at a time when no future ME games were planned, so, now that future games are planned, I think a rewrite would make sense anyway.

 

As for the other galaxy changing decisions - we've already seen that Bioware can make our decisions lead to the same place. Udina is on the Council in ME3 no matter who you pick in ME1. They could do the same thing with, say, the status of the geth/quarians. Your decisions are still recognized in ME: Next, but, ultimately, they are just different paths that lead to the same place. I know that would upset a lot of people, just like the thing with Udina did. But, really, maybe we should get over it. That sort of thing may be necessary to preserve the ME setting. As long as my decisions are recognized and acknowledged in game, I honestly don't think I'd mind so much if they all ultimately led to the same place.

 

At the end of the day, though, I don't really expect any of this. While I will wait for confirmation, I expect something like the leak to be true. And, you know what? As much as I'd prefer to stay in the Milky Way, I don't mind leaving that much either. At least not enough to forego the game or give up on the franchise. It's not my preference, but it still sounds like it would be fun, and Bioware has, in my opinion, always done a better job at their games than most of the other companies out there.

[Sion1138]

At the end of the day, though, I don't really expect any of this. While I will wait for confirmation, I expect something like the leak to be true. And, you know what? As much as I'd prefer to stay in the Milky Way, I don't mind leaving that much either. At least not enough to forego the game or give up on the franchise. It's not my preference, but it still sounds like it would be fun, and Bioware has, in my opinion, always done a better job at their games than most of the other companies out there.

 

Few will pass the game up, whatever it is.

 

Being fans of cinematic role-playing and science fiction, we hardly have a choice. 

 

I did pass up Inquisition though, because it's a lot of nothing and I fear that the new Mass Effect will follow that trend.

[Iakus]

 

Being fans of cinematic role-playing and science fiction, we hardly have a choice. 

 

Cinematic I can take or leave.

 

For science fiction role-playing I'm eagerly anticipating Torment: Tides of Numenera and The Mandate 

[Ambivalent]

I don't get what the problem is.

 

Shephard is awesome character(At least mine is ) but having an influencial character has its limititations over the series.

 

For example: I'd hate to play a Darth Sidious game starting at level 1 for example. We're talking about Sidious here! Not some typical human. (Many developers including big boys like Bethesda, Obsidian and Bioware fell for that. "You are x! Too powerful, bringer of balance! Fate of y is in your hands! But stay away from dragons for a while heh... Didn't buy it? Thought so, still keep playing.")

 

So even i loved Shephard, especially female one, thanks to Jennifer Hale, it was time to move on. (One of main things i'll miss is Jennifer Hale as main VA btw -.-)

 

Some people didn't like ME 2 or 3, this and that choice's consequences, ending... Trilogy has some problems to some people so to speak. I love them all just to record.

 

I always thought ME(And DA too) as universes like Star Wars.

 

Of course both KOTOR and SW:Episode 3 belongs to same universe and has similarities but neither has a limitation over another. IIRC that's the main reason Bioware chose a timeline which was far away from movies, to have freedom.

 

Not mentioning the newcomers. Some folks may not even heard of previous games or didn't have PC that time or haven't even heard about it.(Living in a cave? Ehh) Some may not be at availible age when the first game came out. Some may hated the changes. Some may hated the original games but loved others.

 

Having choices in game is awesome, until developer decides yours is not canon.

 

I totally wanted to kill whole council with no replacements because councils are there only to postpone stuff until their next pay check(A council of Anderson, Garrus, Tali, Mordin, Legion would be ftw though... Until they get lazy too, because council=being lazy in every single game/book/movie), i never liked Udina but he got "promoted" even i chose not to because it was canon after some book.

 

So many options and these actually handicapped the series really.

 

So in next ME it is understandable that they're changing the "place", i hope they'll change timeline too. Anything that can limit Bioware or any developer results in bad games that only has a cult following it.

 

But it would be cool to see our Shephard by video recordings or if timeline is near to hear about him/her in news etc.

 

Bioware only need to make choices to have more consequences, more grey choices instead of white and black, represent paragon not as "white knight" while renegade not as "angry adolescent" and i'm pretty sure it can even pass originals.

[Torgette]

Guys, I think the map showing the crucible firing effect was more an illustration - like Indiana Jones flying across the globe.

[AlanC9]

They do, on the indie market.

Franchises like Mass Effect, however, have much more in common with the likes of Marvel/DC and the Trek/Wars properties. There are many, many layers.

Is this maybe an aspect of the old argument that Bio ought to aspire to be a niche developer?

[Sion1138]

Is this maybe an aspect of the old argument that Bio ought to aspire to be a niche developer?

 

They are a niche developer.

[Anacronian Stryx]

They are a niche developer.

They are EA's RPG division - they just kept the name Bioware because people would think of them differently (and it works ).