72 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilithor]

Um, you do know that this game was just a segue into a bigger story, right? You did watch the scene after the credits, right? 

 

Yeah like November 18th 2014

 

Then again Bioware should learn with movies, Guardians of the Galaxy director more specifically. He said we shouldn't make movies focusing on the sequel. Also anyone in writting, movies or anything else knows sequel is no excuse for being ridiculously bad to the point of redefining awful like Inquisition is.

 

But, you missed the point, a "fireball" being threatening can happen in day to day life with no plot at all. It only need a person and a threat. In the case of games, movies, books, and so on, a character developed well enough for you to care. A cockroach could be a threat, literally, if a certain character had a phobia and it affected this character in a decisive moment for her life. This is the joke, Corypheus as godly as he is means no threat because of the way the writters chose to go with the story while a rabid dog could be a huge threat to Thedas. There is no excuse for making a story where you don't feel threatened, you can do it in the first page of a book, and you don't even need character development. Character development can happen after the threatening so that you get deeper into that feeling. You need to care about the character being hit by the fireball not only because of character development but because of the way the scene is described/portrayed, character development won't do the magic by itself. When graphics and sound are additioned to the writting you need to use both to make the player feel. Inquisition makes us feel lots of things but threatened is not one of them.

 

Inquisition is safe from the beginning to the end (in fact it is counter intuitively safer the closer we get to the end)

 

There is no fireball

 

You understand very little about writting, movies and games if you believe there would need to be an "ultimate villain" to pose a threat. Not only little understanding but also very little experience since even games like Final Fantasy VI, Chrono Trigger and Super Mario RPG in the SNES presented these feelings with those 16bits sprites and few lines. Bioware had the skills but lost the soul, it is as simple as that.

[dreamgazer]

Don't read the forums?

Wouldn't blame 'em if they stopped.

[AlanC9]

Whenever someone starts talking about "soul," I know that we're about done with the rational debate part of the proceedings.

[In Exile]

Whenever someone starts talking about "soul," I know that we're about done with the rational debate part of the proceedings.

Passion or love are my favourite of those types of lines, because of the weird sexual connotations of the phrasing (e.g. "It isn't filled with Bioware's love"). Although given the topic subject line...

[MelissaGT]

Yeah like November 18th 2014

 

*diatribe snipped*

 

Apparently we played a completely different game. I remember speed-running my first playthrough because I was so engaged in the story that I couldn't wait to see what happened. And when I got to the end I realized that now the story is just getting started - YES! That means there's more to come!

 

I don't understand how this is a problem. I'm a big fan of cliff-hangers and plot twists, bad guys that really aren't bad guys and good guys that really aren't good guys - perhaps you are not? Perhaps you weren't able to grasp the story that Bioware was trying to lay out. I got it - and I'm totally waiting with baited breath to see what happens next. 

 

"We shouldn't make movies focusing on the sequel." First of all, this is a game, not a movie. Second of all, being the third installment in the series, it is completely valid for them to set up the story at the end, which will lead to the next "chapter." They did it with ME2 and DA2 - it worked quite well on both occasions. Games like Final Fantasy cannot be used as examples, as they are all completely independent (i.e. FFVII has nothing to do with FFVIII, which has nothing to do with FFIX and so on - and yes I have played them all). When you play games that are part of a series you should expect them to run together. 

 

And seriously, if I see the word "fireball" again I think I'm going to throw up.   

[SofaJockey]

A hard lesson for the OP:

 

DAI is not perfect but most people enjoy it, particularly for the characters.

When someone dislikes it as much as they clearly do, why not find something else to focus on, 

rather than continuing to drop fireballs where all they do is make noise and cause the screen to shake  .

[MelissaGT]

A hard lesson for the OP:

 

DAI is not perfect but most people enjoy it, particularly for the characters.

When someone dislikes it as much as they clearly do, why not find something else to focus on, 

rather than continuing to drop fireballs where all they do is make noise and cause the screen to shake  .

 

Oh noes! YOU SAID IT....

 

[AresKeith]

A hard lesson for the OP:

 

DAI is not perfect but most people enjoy it, particularly for the characters.

When someone dislikes it as much as they clearly do, why not find something else to focus on, 

rather than continuing to drop fireballs where all they do is make noise and cause the screen to shake  .

 

Because everyone must share their opinion

[DaemionMoadrin]

Objectively the cast of DA:I is one of the strongest so far. Not perfect, but really, really good.

 

My (subjective) problem was that my Inquisitor was as bland as a cardboard cutout. I couldn't relate to anyone in the game through my character, there wasn't anything there. It didn't help that there was wasted potential regarding the companions, there weren't as many interactions etc that could have been, for example Vivienne turned out to be next to useless over the course of the game. I had enough mages and recruited her for her political connections... which never came into play at all. 

 

Varric in DA2 was funny, charming, sarcastic and just worked really well with Hawke. DA:I's Varric is always somehow distanced (which makes sense with his backstory) and that doesn't really endear me to him. If I didn't know him from DA2, I don't know if I would have put him into my group.

 

While I love Leliana's character and development over the course of the DA games, I was a bit disappointed that stopping her ruthless behaviour required meta knowledge. There is no way the protagonist would tell a Hand of the Divine how to do her job. None of the backgrounds ("origins") would do that. What does a sheltered mage of noble birth know about running a spy network? Or a dalish elf?

 

Anyway... the characters were done very well, it's too bad that (in my case) the connection to the audience turned out to be the weak point.

[SofaJockey]

My (subjective) problem was that my Inquisitor was as bland as a cardboard cutout.

 

This has always been one of the balancing acts of RPG games - make the protagonist too defined (Hawke or Shepard) and you can lose player agency,

 not defined enough and they can be too bland or indistinct. Hard to make everyone perfectly happy as tastes differ...

[dreamgazer]

I really liked the amount of agency I had over the Inquisitor's actions and personality, but I did miss the playable origin stories for a character foundation. A combo of the two would be wonderful.

[AresKeith]

I really liked the amount of agency I had over the Inquisitor's actions and personality, but I did miss the playable origin stories for a character foundation. A combo of the two would be wonderful.

 

I agree, I think that works best when dealing with characters like the Warden and Inquisitor

 

They can even do a playable origins via flashback

[Koneko Koji]

I agree, I think that works best when dealing with characters like the Warden and Inquisitor

 

They can even do a playable origins via flashback

 

They could have even started the game before the Conclave, have the character in their respective group (forest, merc group, whatever) and really hammer home the effects of the Mage / Templar war. Then go to the conclave, have the player explore the place and find the door - hearing the "hold the sacrifice" line and opening it before BOOM white screen - giving the player a sense of OMG WHAT DID I DO!!!? Before then going to where it starts anyway - since we get the temple reveal early on, hearing the 'sacrifice' line but not seeing anything, IMO, wouldn't take away from the game!

[AresKeith]

They could have even started the game before the Conclave, have the character in their respective group (forest, merc group, whatever) and really hammer home the effects of the Mage / Templar war. Then go to the conclave, have the player explore the place and find the door - hearing the "hold the sacrifice" line and opening it before BOOM white screen - giving the player a sense of OMG WHAT DID I DO!!!? Before then going to where it starts anyway - since we get the temple reveal early on, hearing the 'sacrifice' line but not seeing anything, IMO, wouldn't take away from the game!

 

I would've preferred that actually and iirc Bioware actually tried that before going the Mystery route with the intro

[SofaJockey]

I would've preferred that actually and iirc Bioware actually tried that before going the Mystery route with the intro

 

Yep, I understand they did try that, and preferred it the way it was ultimately presented.

This happens, forever will Tosche Station remain in limbo...

[DaemionMoadrin]

This has always been one of the balancing acts of RPG games - make the protagonist too defined (Hawke or Shepard) and you can lose player agency,

 not defined enough and they can be too bland or indistinct. Hard to make everyone perfectly happy as tastes differ...

 

Exactly.

 

The Inquisitor is not as defined as Hawke or Shepard but at the same time the game doesn't allow me to define my character. Except for headcanon. But I didn't pay €70 for headcanon.

The Warden or my BG characters were pretty undefined in the beginning but I could develop them through origin stories, side quests etc. I had the option to be ruthless, to be kind, to be insane or whatever else I wanted.

 

The Inquisitor doesn't allow me to deviate from the pre-defined path. Most decisions are cosmetic and/or the consequences aren't felt because they only result in a war table mission or happen after the game. The available responses in dialogues don't cover the wide range of traditional RPGs. Does anyone remember the options when you find the wounded soldier in the Arbor Wilds, during the Darkspawn blood mission in DA:Origins? Just one of many examples.

 

DA:I lacks the urgency and desperation I'd expect from a story about the potential end of the world. The Inquistion never faces serious problems except for the attack on Haven... and that is canceled out immediately by gaining Skyhold. From then on you stroll leisurely through the rest of the game, solving all problems and dispatching your enemies without breaking a sweat. Even Disney is more hardcore.

 

The war in which you are involved, that more or less centers on you and your nemesis... is reduced to some action in the background. The organisation you lead does whatever it wants, you don't really get a say about anything. Instead you run around and do menial tasks, gather herbs and keep yourself occupied by ordering new drapes and other decorations for your still not fully repaired keep. I'm sorry, but that doesn't feel right to me.

 

I am not asking for a grim-dark story of blood and sacrifice. But I am asking for actual consequences. For real drama. For difficult decisions that matter. For something I can care about. If you always win, if you have a 100% success rate... then what makes victory so special? People complained that they weren't able to save Hawke's mother from being murdered... but it can not be denied that this storyline had real emotional impact. Hawke wasn't perfect and failed. Which makes them a better character, I think.

 

There was so much potential all over DA:I but it was squandered. Why couldn't my Inquisitor be a power hungry despot? Why couldn't I manipulate the court of Orlais to do my bidding? Why couldn't I throw my weight around to push for social changes? No, instead I was railroaded to the goal and while the scenery floating by was pretty I couldn't help but feel disconnected from everything that happened.

 

My companions were interesting, they had lots of things to say and their own agendas, too. But where was mine? No matter how great your partner in a dialogue may be, if you are boring and bland, then the conversation won't go far.

 

I can't put my finger on what exactly went wrong but I believe it was a matter of story telling, of cut content and an overabundance of tedious tasks to pad the gaming time. The main story is good but the rest of the game interfers with it instead of supporting it.

 

A game developer learns from every game they make. Good and bad. I hope that BioWare learned the right lessons from DA:I and that the next game they make will be better.

[SACanuckin Oz]

I agree with the OP about the 'fireball' issue. Essentially he is saying that your companions are indestructible, so you don't have the same sense of investment in their wellbeing, as you might have in other games in the same genre (Skyrim being the obvious example).

 

In Skyrim, companion characters have far less complex backstories and interesting dialogue cutscenes, but if you care about them, you have to look after them in combat, because if they fell, that was that, for them. No 'revive' option. Either reload previous save, or say your farewells (I redid a battle with Alduin about three times, because Lydia had this foolhardy habit of charging his head - like Nords are wont to do. But in the end I had to make a funeral pyre, and send her to Svongarde. And J'Zargo had this bad habit of stepping on traps in ruins,... and I had to bury him in one.).

 

None of the DAI companions run that risk, which is what I believe OP is trying to say here

[MelissaGT]

I agree with the OP about the 'fireball' issue. Essentially he is saying that your companions are indestructible, so you don't have the same sense of investment in their wellbeing, as you might have in other games in the same genre (Skyrim being the obvious example).

 

In Skyrim, companion characters have far less complex backstories and interesting dialogue cutscenes, but if you care about them, you have to look after them in combat, because if they fell, that was that, for them. No 'revive' option. Either reload previous save, or say your farewells (I redid a battle with Alduin about three times, because Lydia had this foolhardy habit of charging his head - like Nords are wont to do. But in the end I had to make a funeral pyre, and send her to Svongarde. And J'Zargo had this bad habit of stepping on traps in ruins,... and I had to bury him in one.).

 

None of the DAI companions run that risk, which is what I believe OP is trying to say here

 

Not to continue a discussion about Skyrim, but I'm pretty sure out of the box companions are flagged as "essential" so they can't die? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly since I've been playing a modded Skyrim for most of the time the game has been out. 

[SACanuckin Oz]

The short answer is NO - some are/were marked, but not all.

The ability to mod this option, is of course, PRICELESS!

[AlanC9]

All Skyrim followers are "protected," though. They won't be targeted once their HP is too low, which still leaves them vulnerable to AoE attacks, poisons that beat their regeneration rate, and so on.

It's pretty difficult to get one killed unless you're careless with your own attacks.

[PsychoBlonde]

Um, you do know that this game was just a segue into a bigger story, right? You did watch the scene after the credits, right? 

 

It is true that they did a poor job of maintaining the threat level and plot drive through THIS story, though.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I think the bigger problem in Inqusition is that there is no fireball. None of our companion or the Inquisitor are in any actual danger in the game. Sure, they play it up when Cory shows up first but you could just run throw the game without a single worry that the bad guy might win.

[Eelectrica]

The character I would 'red shirt' some time after Haven would be Varric. Of course there's not a whole lot of other viable candidates to wear the red shirt

How to do that is a little more involved than typing on this phone will allow though.

[SACanuckin Oz]

Vivienne springs to mind. I would like to feed her to a dragon, any dragon....

 

I would have preferred if all the characters had a similar vulnerability as the characters in Skyrim, as it would have made it more immersive.

 

As it stands, I have a few glass canon type builds (Vivienne - ice, Dorian - fire) that I only use for specific dragon encounters, and really the others are random choices. Even party banter is so sparse in this game, that it almost feels like a single player game in the open zones, and given that companions are relegated to stationary places in the main quest (esp. Wicked Eyes), they feel more like an afterthought than an integral part of the story.

 

Poorly done on all accounts

[AlanC9]

It is true that they did a poor job of maintaining the threat level and plot drive through THIS story, though.

I agree... but I've always found Bio to be pretty bad at this. Was Irenicus actually threatening?