836 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

That's fine. No point arguing against something that is correct. 

It's not correct, your just too stubborn to see it any other way. Shepard saved the galaxy and the countless billions of people that inhabit it. That's not rendered pointless because the next game isn't set in the Milky Way. Even better Shepards actions in ME 1 2 & 3 are the only reason to 'Ark Theory' could work. Shepard destroying Soverign brings new technology to the fore and forces some people to begin considering alternate forms of FTL and tech in general since they now know everything they have is based on Reaper tech. In ME 2, Shepard prevents the culling of human colonies, and the early sacking of earth by the Collectors. This gives any number of colonists the motivation to begin considering that finding a new home beyond the confines of the Milky Way might be for the best. Mass Effect 3 has Shepard collecting resources and building Alliances amongst the Alien races. These  same races decide to ensure the survival of their way of life even if the Crucible fails by sending a colony ship/fleet to a distant galaxy using Technology they gleaned from Soverign, the Collectors and their studies of the Crucible.

 

So yeah, the past games are not rendered pointless because you say so.

 

 

 

I asked about life support and necessities storage, to which you said so what then brought up the discharging problem.

 

Man...if only there was a race of people who'd spent hundreds of years on starships whose expierence would be vital to this new mission.....Oh wait we have that race...the Quarians.

 

 

 

And it still doesn't address how not to fry the crew.

 

so they transport husks and other organic based creatures around in their ships yet it's somehow impossible for people studying Reaper tech (let's not forget that pieces of Soverign rained down all over the Citadel) to figure this out?

[Iakus]

 

 

Man...if only there was a race of people who'd spent hundreds of years on starships whose expierence would be vital to this new mission.....Oh wait we have that race...the Quarians.

 

Unless they're dead of course...

 

 

so they transport husks and other organic based creatures around in their ships yet it's somehow impossible for people studying Reaper tech (let's not forget that pieces of Soverign rained down all over the Citadel) to figure this out?

 

Well, they clearly hadn't cracked it by the Reaper War.  And if they figured it out afterwards, you've just rendered multiple endings noncanon

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Man...if only there was a race of people who'd spent hundreds of years on starships whose expierence would be vital to this new mission.....Oh wait we have that race...the Quarians.

You mean the same Quarians who are always looking for fuel and necessities, sending their children out to do it as a rite of passage. They are no more knowledgeable about intergalactic travel than the Raloi. 

 

 

so they transport husks and other organic based creatures around in their ships yet it's somehow impossible for people studying Reaper tech (let's not forget that pieces of Soverign rained down all over the Citadel) to figure this out?

All organic matter is replaced with synthetic matter in the different versions of Husks. No need for life support. 

[Heimdall]

No, you've only established that it's possible with beings millions of years more advanced than the current cycle.  Plausibility with the current cycle's tech base is still very much an open question.
 
From the Codex (emphasis mine):
 
Reaper power sources seem to violate known physical laws. Reapers usually destroy fuel infrastructure rather than attempting to capture it intact, indicating that Reapers do not require organic species' energy supplies. Consequently, the Reapers attack without regard for maintaining supply lines behind them, except to move husks from one planet to another. Unlike Citadel ships, Reapers do not appear to discharge static buildup from their drive cores, although they sometimes appear wreathed in static discharge when they land on planets.
 
And it still doesn't address how not to fry the crew.

As to frying the crew, as I already said, frying the crew is the smallest problem with the discharge, which also burns out all electronic systems and literally melts the ship's interior. To prevent one they prevent the other, so I don't see how that's still at issue.

All I need to prove is that the technology exists. Thus the existence of such technology is not outside the lore. I don't care if they reverse engineer something from Sovereign's remains or rip out a Reaper drive core directly and use that. Regardless, my point against Hanako stands, the technology is not lore breaking.

[MrFob]

There was no deflection except by you. I asked about life support and necessities storage, to which you said so what then brought up the discharging problem. 

 

It's certainly plausible, if you are a gigantic machine that has no need for anything that an ark ship would need. I've never denied the fact that the Reapers can go to other galaxies unless humoring an argument that says they can't. In fact, I think that's what they do while waiting between cycles. In which case, Andromeda only has a few centuries until the Reapers come back. 

 

How about we make a big container with life support and storage and have 6 reapers tow it? Kinda like a reaper ark chariot.

 

Personally, I think the writing team already screwed up by having the reapers fly in via FTL in ME2. The whole point of the citadel relay in ME1 was that he reaper could not just fly in. When I first heard of the collectors with their secret plan to aid the reapers, I was convinced they'd try to build another anchor relay to dark space. Alas, we got a human reaper terminator instead. But that's old stories. Now we might as well have our reaper chariot while we are at it. If I could draw at all, I'd make a cartoon image of it.

[Iakus]

As to frying the crew, as I already said, frying the crew is the smallest problem with the discharge, which also burns out all electronic systems and literally melts the ship's interior. To prevent one they prevent the other, so I don't see how that's still at issue.
 

I think the crew would disagree 

 

People are kinda breakable.  They'll be overcome by heat well before bulkheads fuse.  

 

And it takes more than simply proving the technology exists.  You have to establish that it can be reproduced and utilized by the characters in the given the time and resources at hand.  Otherwise you simply have (yet another) deus ex machina

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How about we make a big container with life support and storage and have 6 reapers tow it? Kinda like a reaper ark chariot.

That would render Destroy and Refuse as non-canon. 

[The Elder King]

That would render Destroy and Refuse as non-canon.

Refuse is already non-canon (well, at least the Ark theory is true and it was sent Before the end of the war).

[Heimdall]

There was no deflection except by you. I asked about life support and necessities storage, to which you said so what then brought up the discharging problem. 
 
It's certainly plausible, if you are a gigantic machine that has no need for anything that an ark ship would need. I've never denied the fact that the Reapers can go to other galaxies unless humoring an argument that says they can't. In fact, I think that's what they do while waiting between cycles. In which case, Andromeda only has a few centuries until the Reapers come back.

And for any of this to be relevant you would have to prove that these factors would interfere with whatever mechanism the Reapers utilize. Which is exactly what I told you already. There's no reason to think that they would cause a problem.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As to frying the crew, as I already said, frying the crew is the smallest problem with the discharge, which also burns out all electronic systems and literally melts the ship's interior. To prevent one they prevent the other, so I don't see how that's still at issue.

All I need to prove is that the technology exists. Thus the existence of such technology is not outside the lore. I don't care if they reverse engineer something from Sovereign's remains or rip out a Reaper drive core directly and use that. Regardless, my point against Hanako stands, the technology is not lore breaking.

Us having that technology however is. They haven't been able to reverse-engineer Sovereign's core and implanting it directly is essentially giving Sovereign a new body. The crew would be dribbling animals by the time they reached Andromeda. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And for any of this to be relevant you would have to prove that these factors would interfere with whatever mechanism the Reapers utilize. Which is exactly what I told you already. There's no reason to think that they would cause a problem.

No, I want you to explain how the ark would solve the problem of keeping it's crew alive, fed, hydrated, etc for a centuries long voyage as well as when they are actually there. 

[MrFob]

That would render Destroy and Refuse as non-canon. 

 

I bet ya that refuse is non-cannon anyway, just like Shepard's death is in ME2.

 

As for destroy, maybe they refurbished some of the reaper corpses and made them fly again.

I personally like control best for this though:

Hackett: "Yea, Shepard, we've got this idea to send a bunch of guys to the Andromeda galaxy, how about you tow us there?"

God Shepard: "Seriously? I thought after saving all your sorry asses and becoming a god in the process, I could have a few days off."

Hackett: "Well, we really want this to happen. Besides, we are sending people, just like you, people who believe. I could pay anyone to go to Andromeda but these guys, they really want to go, they can do it because the they have faith and they can give faith to others! So you will be in good company. You will stand strong, stand together..."

God Shepard: "Yea yea yea, ok, I'll do it, just save the speeches, will ya. Oh and by the way, speaking of payment, this time, I'll run a fare-meter."

[Costin_Razvan]

How would a game set in the Milky Way make sense anyway? It just wouldn't in Control or Synthesis ending. In Control you've got the Reaper galaxy police led by Shepard AI whereas in Synthesis man and machine are merged to create harmony in the galaxy, no possibility there to create conflict that would work besides having a potential rebellion in the control ending situation but then you're just redoing ME3. Then there's refuse ending which means everyone was killed.

 

The only one that would for a future game set in the Milky Way is if they ignore all other endings besides Destroy.

[Iakus]

I bet ya that refuse is non-cannon anyway, just like Shepard's death is in ME2.

 

As for destroy, maybe they refurbished some of the reaper corpses and made them fly again.

 

I can't imagine a universe where this is a good idea 

[Heimdall]

I think the crew would disagree 
 
People are kinda breakable.  They'll be overcome by heat well before bulkheads fuse.
 
And it takes more than simply proving the technology exists.  You have to establish that it can be reproduced and utilized by the characters in the given the time and resources at hand.  Otherwise you simply have (yet another) deus ex machina

That's moving the goal post of my original argument with Hanako, but fine.

The Turians reproduced the Thanix canon in that timespan, a weapon of unprecedented power at the time, thus we have precedent that Reaper technology isn't so beyond current levels to defy reverse engineering in such a short timespan.

Though I should mention that my conception of Ark Theory has always attributed the plan to a secret society that has known about the Reapers for a decade before they arrived and has been working the problem since then. Political support would have come in later. Let's say this group snatched up Sovereign's drive core from the wreckage and has been working to understand it ever since. That would explain why nobody else here's of the discovery, this group wouldn't want to be targeted by the Reapers as they no doubt would if word got out.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I can't imagine a universe where this is a good idea 

What could possibly go wrong with reviving a race of genocidal machines who can brainwash people merely by existing? 

[Iakus]

How would a game set in the Milky Way make sense anyway? It just wouldn't in Control or Synthesis ending. In Control you've got the Reaper galaxy police led by Shepard AI whereas in Synthesis man and machine are merged to create harmony in the galaxy, no possibility there to create conflict that would work besides having a potential rebellion in the control ending situation but then you're just redoing ME3. Then there's refuse ending which means everyone was killed.

 

The only one that would for a future game set in the Milky Way is if they ignore all other endings besides Destroy.

Or even ignore Destroy too.  Just don't speak of what happened.  

 

How the Rapers were defeated/stopped/turned away simply becomes a Broad Strokes ending

[MrFob]

I can't imagine a universe where this is a good idea 

 

In any post destroy ending, I would fully expect all the races to descend upon the reaper corpses immediately like vultures. Dissect them, study them, make them space worthy again and use their superior armor and weaponry for your own purposes. They did it with Sovereign, they will do it with the rest (and jugging by the the ME3 finale, those corpses are in better shape than Sovereign was, too).

 

Oh, btw, I just remembered, of course reapers can sustain a crew, they did so with Saren and his goons in ME1. Dam, I was really looking forward to see that chariot.

[Iakus]

That's moving the goal post of my original argument with Hanako, but fine.

The Turians reproduced the Thanix canon in that timespan, a weapon of unprecedented power at the time, thus we have precedent that Reaper technology isn't so beyond current levels to defy reverse engineering in such a short timespan.

Though I should mention that my conception of Ark Theory has always attributed the plan to a secret society that has known about the Reapers for a decade before they arrived and has been working the problem since then. Political support would have come in later. Let's say this group snatched up Sovereign's drive core from the wreckage and has been working to understand it ever since. That would explain why nobody else here's of the discovery, this group wouldn't want to be targeted by the Reapers as they no doubt would if word got out.

Yeah they got the thanix canon.  But not to the levels that a Reaper's gun can manage.  The thanix is still Reaper-Lite at best, or else the war wouldn't have been so desperate.

[Heimdall]

No, I want you to explain how the ark would solve the problem of keeping it's crew alive, fed, hydrated, etc for a centuries long voyage as well as when they are actually there.

...Which is a complete nonsequitur as it has nothing to do with the drive core discharge issue we were discussing.

Oh fine, if you insist, reverse engineered stasis pods.

They don't need to be up to Prothean standards, they just need to last centuries not thousands of years.

[Iakus]

In any post destroy ending, I would fully expect all the races to descend upon the reaper corpses immediately like vultures. Dissect them, study them, make them space worthy again and use their superior armor and weaponry for your own purposes. They did it with Sovereign, they will do it with the rest (and jugging by the the ME3 finale, those corpses are in better shape than sovereign was).

 

Oh, btw, I just remembered, of course reapers can sustain a crew, they did so with Saren and his goons in ME1. Dam, I was relly looking forward to see that chariot.

I'm just imagining the risk of indoctrination with that.  I mean, the batarians had a bit of a problem with it after excavating the Leviathan of Dis 

[Heimdall]

Yeah they got the thanix canon. But not to the levels that a Reaper's gun can manage. The thanix is still Reaper-Lite at best, or else the war wouldn't have been so desperate.

Well, the Thanix didn't do much to turn the tide because only a handful of ships were equipped with them, not because they were so much weaker compared to the Reapers. They couldn't do much regardless of how powerful they were (And the ships carrying them were probably targeted first)

[MrFob]

I'm just imagining the risk of indoctrination with that.  I mean, the batarians had a bit of a problem with it after excavating the Leviathan of Dis 

 

Sure, that is a risk but with the demise of the catalyst and the red wave basically shutting down the essence of the reapers, it may not even be an issue anymore.

Besides, If one race can figure out how it works and reproduce it, they hit the jackpot.

And you just know, once one of the races start, the other will have little choice but to try and catch up. And trust me, the Salarians at least will give it a shot.

[The Elder King]

I'm just imagining the risk of indoctrination with that. I mean, the batarians had a bit of a problem with it after excavating the Leviathan of Dis

As well as the Cerberus crew researching the IFF.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

...Which is a complete nonsequitur as it has nothing to do with the drive core discharge issue we were discussing.

Oh fine, if you insist, reverse engineered stasis pods.

They don't need to be up to Prothean standards, they just need to last centuries not thousands of years.

We weren't discussing core discharge. I said there were problems to overcome, and started with life support and necessities. 

 

How will they reverse engineer stasis pods by the time the Reapers attack when they only discovered the ones on Ilos only two years ago.

 

And what about when they arrive? They have no idea if there will be food or water or air that can sustain them when they get there, so the ship will have to be the source of that.