836 réponses à ce sujet

[Guanxii]

I feel I should point out that the decision to move to a new Galaxy has nothing to do with finding new areas to explore. It's about giving the franchise a clean slate without the endings of ME3 getting in the way.

Colonization and exploration seems to be the order of the day according to the supposed leak. You don't need to go to Andromeda to explore new regions of space and i'll believe it when I see it at E3. As stated previously the ME3 ending only continues to remain the elephant in the room so long as you don't even bother to attempt to address it. I don't care how they re-establish canon just do it now so that our galaxy isn't forever left in a ruined abandoned state. 

[Iakus]

I feel I should point out that the decision to move to a new Galaxy has nothing to do with finding new areas to explore. It's about giving the franchise a clean slate without the endings of ME3 getting in the way.

And killing Shepard off only to bring him/her back to life via the Lazarus Project was about advancing the timeline.

 

Still pretty clumsy though.

[Iakus]

To me three games is plenty. Especially since they bungled ME3 so hard. I was invested in the games I played. I never derived enjoyment from the games because I thought ME4 would tread the same ground or somehow complete the experience the trilogy was supposed to deliver.
What is there to gain by staying in the Milky Way? They need to make the next game/s stand out and tread new ground so we would have been getting new planets, races and lore no matter what. Keeping it in the Milky Way would have just presented untenable problems and detracted from the series' future.

I don't  particularly disagree with the sentiment (the endings seriously disgusted me too), but this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

The Milky Way has all of Mass Effect's stuff in it:  The Council, the relay networks, Omega, the Systems Alliance, the Terminus and so on.  All the things that help make the setting what it is.  Uproot everything and move to another galaxy (which is technically not possible to begin with) and you may have a science fiction game.  But it won't be Mass Effect.  It's as much a Starcraft game with "Mass Effect" slapped on the box.

[ElitePinecone]

But it won't be Mass Effect. 

 

In your opinion, dude. 

 

I think it's totally still Mass Effect. 

[Redbelle]

What's coming through in these comment's is that Bioware need to focus on the who, how and why.

 

Who is the character? His/her background? Position in whatever organisation he or she is currently engaged with....

 

How have they made the journey? How did they traverse the distance? How did the infrastructure to make this journey to another galaxy happen?.... Which ties into.....

 

Why..... What happened to make going to another galaxy neccessay? What's the situation back at the Milky Way that people got together and pushed the credits to fund such a venture?

 

All of these points are story elements that need explaining to the player in the first opening act of ME4. Preferably in a way that allows the player to engage with the narrative element. The worst thing BW could do is hand a player a gun in the first 5 mintues. Learning the narrative of the who how and why needs to occur in tandem with teaching the player how they can interact with the game. Throw to much at the player in the opening with narrative being overshadowed by game mechanics and the developers could leave the player wondering what the story justification for sending people off to explore new places is.....

 

And that's important because the trip to and from the Milky Way to Andromeda needs detailing. If the way to and from is a revolving door mechanic then what's to stop you as the player from asking, 'Let's go back and get reinforcments'? If on the other hand, it's a one way trip then just who on earth isthis character who would sign on to leave everthing he or she knows and loves behind? If it's a mixture of the two....  A revolving door that is shut to the character and then has to face the prospect that they are alone and may never see home again amid a crew of others witht the same thoughts and feelings who s/he must council to keep them focused on finding a way home only to discover some terrible evil that wants to find a way to the Milky Way to tear that galaxy up........

 

Well you get the point. Getting the opening of the game right, in line with getting the players engaged with the who, how and why of the new cast we're likely to see is critical in getting this new Mass Effect up and running from the word go. Because if you get the beginning right then the rest ought to flow from that...... even the ending...... Come on, we all thought it!

[Manc4life7]

In your opinion, dude. 

 

I think it's totally still Mass Effect. 

 

I'd be willing to be there is a very large contingent of ME fans that think a Mass Effect game without things like the Council, the Relay Network, the Citadel, the Terminus Systems, the Alliance/Asari/Salarians/Krogan/Turians, etc. (not just the races, but the political factions, and all the potential subplots & history/lore those factions bring), is not really a Mass Effect game.  I would definitely count myself as one.  To me, Mass Effect is necessarily about Shepard, it is about the universe in which Shepard's story was told.  Take that away - which is something moving the next game to a new galaxy would effectively do - and what you have is Mass Effect in name only.

 

Not saying it won't still be awesome, but it won't be what I am craving, which is to further explore the MEU we all already know and love.

[Manc4life7]

What's coming through in these comment's is that Bioware need to focus on the who, how and why.

 

Who is the character? His/her background? Position in whatever organisation he or she is currently engaged with....

 

How have they made the journey? How did they traverse the distance? How did the infrastructure to make this journey to another galaxy happen?.... Which ties into.....

 

Why..... What happened to make going to another galaxy neccessay? What's the situation back at the Milky Way that people got together and pushed the credits to fund such a venture?

 

All of these points are story elements that need explaining to the player in the first opening act of ME4. Preferably in a way that allows the player to engage with the narrative element. The worst thing BW could do is hand a player a gun in the first 5 mintues. Learning the narrative of the who how and why needs to occur in tandem with teaching the player how they can interact with the game. Throw to much at the player in the opening with narrative being overshadowed by game mechanics and the developers could leave the player wondering what the story justification for sending people off to explore new places is.....

 

And that's important because the trip to and from the Milky Way to Andromeda needs detailing. If the way to and from is a revolving door mechanic then what's to stop you as the player from asking, 'Let's go back and get reinforcments'? If on the other hand, it's a one way trip then just who on earth isthis character who would sign on to leave everthing he or she knows and loves behind? If it's a mixture of the two....  A revolving door that is shut to the character and then has to face the prospect that they are alone and may never see home again amid a crew of others witht the same thoughts and feelings who s/he must council to keep them focused on finding a way home only to discover some terrible evil that wants to find a way to the Milky Way to tear that galaxy up........

 

Well you get the point. Getting the opening of the game right, in line with getting the players engaged with the who, how and why of the new cast we're likely to see is critical in getting this new Mass Effect up and running from the word go. Because if you get the beginning right then the rest ought to flow from that...... even the ending...... Come on, we all thought it!

 

Very good points.  If ME:N really does jump to Andromeda, then BW desperately needs to flesh out the how & why in particular.  90 second cut-scene and some expository text just isn't going to do.

[Redbelle]

I'd go on to say in response to leaving behind the MEU in the Milky Way..... Yes, I can see what you mean.... But in the Tempest the MEU as we knew of it will continue to exist.

 

It's more to the point of the proposed ME4 that you will carry the MEU as it was known in the form of it's crew. People who remember the history and can bring that individual perspective to situations that MAss Effect has done so well in the past.

 

What the Tempest will also do however is allow these people to react to the new galaxy. Maybe there's a species in Andromeda the Krogan will think.... "Hey, they're about to be hit by something like our ghenophage"! And push you to side with those being attacked.....On the other hand, maybe a new character who is from Andromeda will come along and cite reasons for what they are doing and put you, the player, in that difficult choice situation again. But without a Krogan in your group such a choice lacks the emotional context. Maybe a biological attack really is the best response if the situation is sci-fi complicated and the only thing holding you back is the emotional appeal of a crew member......

 

Of course, this is just an example of how the MEU of the Milky Way can continue to exist and inform decisions in the Andromeda galaxy. By having crew from there, you can continue the spirit of the Milky Way MEU while trying to fit the lessons learned to Andromeda..... Maybe for better maybe for worse.

[Vortex13]

I'll be honest, when I first read the survey, and pictured all the quasi-RTS elements about establishing colonies, and having to manage resources, I got excited; sue me for being a sucker for 3rd Person Shooter/Action RPG • RTS hybrids  .

 

But I also heard the exact same thing from DA:I about having to establish keeps and managing the Inquisition's resources, and that turned out to be watered down or just straight up cut from the game. Can BioWare deliver everything mentioned in this (supposed) leak? Perhaps, but their track record doesn't point to them having much success in trying to incorporate multiple genres into their games. 

 

 

 

I will also admit that the idea of an imperialist expansion into uncharted space appealed to me. Such a (supposed) scenario wouldn't paint humanity in the best light, especially since we are traveling to alien worlds and claiming them for ourselves, and that would be a refreshing change of pace for me.

 

But again, BioWare doesn't have the best track record in showcasing humanity as a whole in a negative/morally grey light. It would be an awesome moral conundrum if a species like the Khet was merely trying to defend their space from an alien invasion, but from the language used in the survey, and BioWare's propensity for having humanity be in the right, this species comes across more as mindlessly evil monsters for the player to slaughter without consequence. 

[MrMrPendragon]

I think they'd have to give very good answers to following questions for me to even accept this as something other than a mechanism to avoid dealing with the consequences of ME3's ending.

 

1. Why do we need to go to another galaxy? Do we REALLY need to go to this galaxy?

2. How are we getting to that other galaxy? Did we invent something that's better than the Mass Relays when it comes to spaceflight?

3. Can we and will we ever go back to the Milky Way?

4. Why are you not making references to the post-Reaper society of the Milky Way?

[ElitePinecone]

I'd be willing to be there is a very large contingent of ME fans that think a Mass Effect game without things like the Council, the Relay Network, the Citadel, the Terminus Systems, the Alliance/Asari/Salarians/Krogan/Turians, etc. (not just the races, but the political factions, and all the potential subplots & history/lore those factions bring), is not really a Mass Effect game.  I would definitely count myself as one.  To me, Mass Effect is necessarily about Shepard, it is about the universe in which Shepard's story was told.  Take that away - which is something moving the next game to a new galaxy would effectively do - and what you have is Mass Effect in name only.

 

To some extent this is an issue that they've faced with every game they've ever made - the tension between keeping old stuff that people like and giving them new stuff that they don't know they're going to like yet.

 

I don't doubt that people have a strong attachment to the Milky Way and its setup, but they're going to introduce a bunch of new stuff in MEN regardless of where or when it takes place, and people will pretty quickly accept it as part of what makes "Mass Effect". The border between where people feel comfortable describing it as "Mass Effect" and where they feel it's moved too far away from the original vision is probably going to vary for each individual, but that border is also constantly being expanded by what's in each game.

 

And if you look at the concept art they showed on N7 Day, it's fairly clear they want to evoke very similar themes to what was in the first trilogy - Mac even said this thing was built because they wanted to have a location that was reminiscent of the Citadel in the game:

 

[ElitePinecone]

I think they'd have to give very good answers to following questions for me to even accept this as something other than a mechanism to avoid dealing with the consequences of ME3's ending.

 

1. Why do we need to go to another galaxy? Do we REALLY need to go to this galaxy?

2. How are we getting to that other galaxy? Did we invent something that's better than the Mass Relays when it comes to spaceflight?

3. Can we and will we ever go back to the Milky Way?

4. Why are you not making references to the post-Reaper society of the Milky Way?

 

Well to some extent this IS just a mechanism to avoid the consequences of ME3's ending. That's the whole point. They wrote themselves into a corner, fans wanted something set after ME3, and this is pretty much the only way to do it that also gives them the freedom to go crazy and invent new stuff too.

 

1. Reapers! An ark as a contingency, in case Shepard fails and the war goes badly. 

2. FTL or space magic  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3. Maybe, but why would we? If the journey takes hundreds of years most species would be dead by the time they arrived, and within a few generations they'd regard the Milky Way as nothing more than the mythical home of their species. If anyone did go back, it'd be out of curiosity or as a historian. 

4. Who says they won't?

[NM_Che56]

To be honest, we really don't know whether or not we'll get to visit spots in the Milky way.  

 

The leak says, "You are a pathfinder, a combat trained but un-tested explorer leading an expedition into the Helius cluster to establish a new home for humanity".  So where is the current home?  True, we could all be like Quarians; living in "flotillas" and such, but we won't know for sure until later.

[realguile]

wot about the Milky Way? Bioware just can't leave it like that with all that happened in the ending of mass effect 3. We need closure before we move on ffs.

Dutch on your nine!

[Iakus]

Well to some extent this IS just a mechanism to avoid the consequences of ME3's ending. That's the whole point. They wrote themselves into a corner, fans wanted something set after ME3, and this is pretty much the only way to do it that also gives them the freedom to go crazy and invent new stuff too.

 

1. Reapers! An ark as a contingency, in case Shepard fails and the war goes badly. 

2. FTL or space magic  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3. Maybe, but why would we? If the journey takes hundreds of years most species would be dead by the time they arrived, and within a few generations they'd regard the Milky Way as nothing more than the mythical home of their species. If anyone did go back, it'd be out of curiosity or as a historian. 

4. Who says they won't?

 

1) Why waste precious resource doing that when you can send ships out into dark space, stay in stasis for a couple of centuries, and return?  that's a far more viable and less lore-breaking alternative.

 

2) FTL is not a viable means, as explained several times.  Space magic...would not be a good way to kick off a new story, after the Catalyst and Crucible fiasco.

 

3) Why leave the Milky Way at all (see #1)

 

4) Frankly Andromeda or Milky Way, I'd rather the Reapers not get mentioned at all.

[Iakus]

In your opinion, dude. 

 

I think it's totally still Mass Effect. 

Is Dawn of War a Middle Earth story because it has orcs and elves?

[AresKeith]

Is Dawn of War a Middle Earth story because it has orcs and elves?

 

....Really?

[Redbelle]

To be honest..... do you want to unravel that mess into something that could be made into a workable jumping off point?

 

Just a few issues to clear up.

 

Does everyone have green eye's and is all tech now "Alive"?

 

Are the Geth and Quarian's still around after the destroy ending?

 

Is the Over Shepard and his flock of Reaper's running the show now?

 

Trying to bring those three points in line with one another when only one specific ending could be chosen would be messy and very well invalidate the, 'it's your story' approach to the game by making one canon.

 

Better to leave the Milky Way behind till enough times gone by that the first line of dialogue is...... "Hey? Wasn't, (Insert R, B, or G question here) before we left?

 

"Yeah!!! Took a long time to repair the damage but we're over it now".

 

Don't get me wrong. I still think at some point BW has to try and overcome that hurdle of what happened in the Milky Way, if only show they can master narrative gone wrong but I submit something that should make some wag their tails with glee......

 

If the new character's don't have green eye's..... Then synthesis isn't canon.

[RIPRemusTheTurian]

If ME4 was again set in the Milky Way and glazed over the specific consequences of the ending choices, would any of you mind? I personally don't care how the control/synthesis/destroy dilemma is reflected; they are generally seen as nonsensical options and I'd prefer if the next game pretended they didn't exist. They don't deserve to be acknowledged.

 

What should be referenced is who Shepard was and that Shepard stopped the Reapers. We shouldn't throw away our Shepard or our setting because of weird last-minute decisions. It'd be better to just cut out the little tainted bit at the end.

 

I think that Bioware should "cop out" and standardize them into a single world state. The Reapers go into dark space forever, synthesis wears off, or we eventually rebuild everything.

[themikefest]

1) Why waste precious resource doing that when you can send ships out into dark space, stay in stasis for a couple of centuries, and return?  that's a far more viable and less lore-breaking alternative.

It would be funny if they were to do that, they run into reapers that stayed in darkspace while the rest of them are harvesting the Milky Way
 

3) Why leave the Milky Way at all (see #1)

I will after I explored as much as I can and not just less than 1% of the galaxy
 

4) Frankly Andromeda or Milky Way, I'd rather the Reapers not get mentioned at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if we hear or even see them in the next game after the one currently being developed

[AresKeith]

If ME4 was again set in the Milky Way and glazed over the specific consequences of the ending choices, would any of you mind? I personally don't care how the control/synthesis/destroy dilemma is reflected; they are generally seen as nonsensical options and I'd prefer if the next game pretended they didn't exist. They don't deserve to be acknowledged.

 

What should be referenced is who Shepard was and that Shepard stopped the Reapers. We shouldn't throw away our Shepard or our setting because of weird last-minute decisions. It'd be better to just cut out the little tainted bit at the end.

 

I think that Bioware should "cop out" and standardize them into a single world state. The Reapers go into dark space forever, synthesis wears off, or we eventually rebuild everything.

 

Some people on BSN probably wouldn't mind but Bioware knows that the BSN isn't even close to representing their entire fanbase

[The Arbiter]

To some extent this is an issue that they've faced with every game they've ever made - the tension between keeping old stuff that people like and giving them new stuff that they don't know they're going to like yet.

 

I don't doubt that people have a strong attachment to the Milky Way and its setup, but they're going to introduce a bunch of new stuff in MEN regardless of where or when it takes place, and people will pretty quickly accept it as part of what makes "Mass Effect". The border between where people feel comfortable describing it as "Mass Effect" and where they feel it's moved too far away from the original vision is probably going to vary for each individual, but that border is also constantly being expanded by what's in each game.

 

And if you look at the concept art they showed on N7 Day, it's fairly clear they want to evoke very similar themes to what was in the first trilogy - Mac even said this thing was built because they wanted to have a location that was reminiscent of the Citadel in the game:

 

now it's totally starting to sound a Restart

[dreamgazer]

It would be funny if they were to do that, they run into reapers that stayed in darkspace while the rest of are harvesting the Milky Way

 

I'm still curious how long the Reapers' Andromeda division lets their cycles run before the harvest. 

[The Arbiter]

If ME4 was again set in the Milky Way and glazed over the specific consequences of the ending choices, would any of you mind? I personally don't care how the control/synthesis/destroy dilemma is reflected; they are generally seen as nonsensical options and I'd prefer if the next game pretended they didn't exist. They don't deserve to be acknowledged.

 

What should be referenced is who Shepard was and that Shepard stopped the Reapers. We shouldn't throw away our Shepard or our setting because of weird last-minute decisions. It'd be better to just cut out the little tainted bit at the end.

 

I think that Bioware should "cop out" and standardize them into a single world state. The Reapers go into dark space forever, synthesis wears off, or we eventually rebuild everything.

HA! That's what happened to Deus Ex Human Revolution