316 réponses à ce sujet

[fraggle]

Fair enough. This is an implicit admission though that they messed up the original storyline with the endings though...and that it didn't ended as they intended.

There is no harm in admitting that. I love ME and can forgive them loads of thing.

 

I don't see how this is an implicit admission that they "screwed up"? They ended the Trilogy the way they wanted to end it back then. It was always intended for this to be the last Shepard game.

So now that they were able to make a new game of course they can't turn the choices we got into something that works for everybody, so they work with what possibilities they have. If that means moving to a new galaxy, this is completely fine, but that doesn't mean they messed up the original storyline. In the gaming industry it's not always a given that games receive more sequels, so I prefer they ended the Trilogy with a big bang instead of giving everyone the same ending in hope to carry on from there.

[KrrKs]

I don't see how this is an implicit admission that they "screwed up"? They ended the Trilogy the way they wanted to end it back then. It was always intended for this to be the last Shepard game.

So now that they were able to make a new game of course they can't turn the choices we got into something that works for everybody, so they work with what possibilities they have. If that means moving to a new galaxy, this is completely fine, but that doesn't mean they messed up the original storyline.

It still looks like 'running away' from having to face the choices. IF this is the case, then there is an implication there, that we will never return to the milky-way and known areas again.

 

It still could turn out to be a 'best of both worlds' scenario (not in the TNG episode sense).

So far I've only seen explanation attempts that place the [Ark or other expedition]'s start during the reaper invasion.

(Which doesn't make much sense imo, mainly because of what Iakus and Vazgen said in this and the other threads.)

 

If the Andromeda expedition instead started <reasonable timespan> after the end of the trilogy, we could get a better explanation as to why all these familiar species went there, and additionally get an overview of the effects of the ME3 ending choice -without having to deal too much with it.

[ElitePinecone]

If the Andromeda expedition instead started <reasonable timespan> after the end of the trilogy, we could get a better explanation as to why all these familiar species went there, and additionally get an overview of the effects of the ME3 ending choice -without having to deal too much with it.

 

I actually think this Andromeda expedition pretty much only makes sense if they left before Shepard made the big choice. 

 

It gives them a pretty damn good reason to get out of the Milky Way (escape the deadly machine cuttlefish, especially since the war was going badly) and ensures that they don't have to deal with whatever decisions Shepard could've made later in the game, like wiping out the quarians/geth, curing/not curing the genophage, or making everybody green.

 

Also, I think it'd be really difficult to find a compelling reason to launch an expedition after ME3 that works with all three endings, and that's not even including Refuse. The endings in Extended Cut range from basically "the galaxy is okay for now" (Destroy) to "we have an unstoppable fleet protecting us for eternity" (Control) and a ridiculous techno-utopia where everybody has the accumulated knowledge of thousands of civilisations and there's galactic harmony forever with the power of space magic (Synthesis). What compelling explanation is there for a Control or Synthesis expedition, given how perfect and powerful everything is? Not to mention that they'd have to make everybody in Andromeda green depending on save imports, in that scenario. 

[shepskisaac]

I actually think this Andromeda expedition pretty much only makes sense if they left before Shepard made the big choice. 

 

It gives them a pretty damn good reason to get out of the Milky Way (escape the deadly machine cuttlefish, especially since the war was going badly) and ensures that they don't have to deal with whatever decisions Shepard could've made later in the game, like wiping out the quarians/geth, curing/not curing the genophage, or making everybody green.

Precisely. The plot basically wrote itself with ME3 context

[wright1978]

I actually think this Andromeda expedition pretty much only makes sense if they left before Shepard made the big choice. 

 

It gives them a pretty damn good reason to get out of the Milky Way (escape the deadly machine cuttlefish, especially since the war was going badly) and ensures that they don't have to deal with whatever decisions Shepard could've made later in the game, like wiping out the quarians/geth, curing/not curing the genophage, or making everybody green.

 

Also, I think it'd be really difficult to find a compelling reason to launch an expedition after ME3 that works with all three endings, and that's not even including Refuse. The endings in Extended Cut range from basically "the galaxy is okay for now" (Destroy) to "we have an unstoppable fleet protecting us for eternity" (Control) and a ridiculous techno-utopia where everybody has the accumulated knowledge of thousands of civilisations and there's galactic harmony forever with the power of space magic (Synthesis). What compelling explanation is there for a Control or Synthesis expedition, given how perfect and powerful everything is? Not to mention that they'd have to make everybody in Andromeda green depending on save imports, in that scenario. 

 

Agree completely any ark would only make sense if sent before ME3 endings. Though i think having any significant number of Quarians aboard would be problematic given migrant fleet's preoccupations during ME3. The question for me is whether they would have some form of communication with the Milky Way, which would be reflective of choice or a lack of communication in regards reflecting Refuse.

[shepskisaac]

I am sad though for 1 reason - what are the chances Leviathan's big ass was invited along for the Ark...? I really wanted to see more of them in new trilogy

[Heimdall]

Agree completely any ark would only make sense if sent before ME3 endings. Though i think having any significant number of Quarians aboard would be problematic given migrant fleet's preoccupations during ME3. The question for me is whether they would have some form of communication with the Milky Way, which would be reflective of choice or a lack of communication in regards reflecting Refuse.

Well, an idea that I had earlier was that the Quarians aboard the ark could be part of an exiled population, exiled for their interest in pursuing AI research. So maybe in this new Galaxy they can recreate the Geth or a new artificial intelligence.

[wright1978]

Well, an idea that I had earlier was that the Quarians aboard the ark could be part of an exiled population, exiled for their interest in pursuing AI research. So maybe in this new Galaxy they can recreate the Geth or a new artificial intelligence.

 

Yeah exiled Quarians is a good shout.

[ElitePinecone]

Well, an idea that I had earlier was that the Quarians aboard the ark could be part of an exiled population, exiled for their interest in pursuing AI research. So maybe in this new Galaxy they can recreate the Geth or a new artificial intelligence.

 

There might not even be quarians at all...

 

Remember the rumour that Mike Gamble asked people which races they'd be willing to see cut from the franchise? 

[CroGamer002]

Krogans were also selected to be cut off.

 

Yet they're confirmed back.

 

 

Also his "survey" is dubious at best.

[ElitePinecone]

Krogans were also selected to be cut off.

 

Yet they're confirmed back.

 

Um. What?

 

You don't seriously think they'd base that decision on what 21 people at a secret fan panel selected?

[CroGamer002]

But you just used that survey to say Quarians will most likely be gone.

[Mazder]

Agree completely any ark would only make sense if sent before ME3 endings. Though i think having any significant number of Quarians aboard would be problematic given migrant fleet's preoccupations during ME3. The question for me is whether they would have some form of communication with the Milky Way, which would be reflective of choice or a lack of communication in regards reflecting Refuse.

Well quarians being aboard depend on how long after ME3 the game is set, or if it's set along the same timeline.

 

If it's the same timeline I agree with a heavy heart that there would be no quarians. But if after ME3, there could be.

Their reason for being there would also depend on if they're picking one of the options as a canon (most likely Destroy as it's the easiest to implement) or making a best of all worlds ending to be canon. In which case AI research would be not as taboo as they'd most likely have the Geth around as intermediaries for AI research.

Unless they're choosing to not have AI's and then it would be.

 

Because ME3 included a potential story for a MASSIVE culture shift in the Galaxy. It's been present ever since ME1. AI integration into the Galactic society.

They had fairly good reasons before to be wary of AI given the probably sketchy reports on the Morning War making their way across the Galaxy and the continued conflict thereafter. But in ME3 that has a chance to be reconciled, even forgiven as the two races can grow.

 

If there are no AI's then that plot is lost but I would really have liked to have seen it come to fruition, maybe even with EDI being a third party intermediary, and it could maybe span the Galaxy as other want to weigh in their opinions on the discussion.

[fraggle]

It still looks like 'running away' from having to face the choices. IF this is the case, then there is an implication there, that we will never return to the milky-way and known areas again.

 

It still could turn out to be a 'best of both worlds' scenario (not in the TNG episode sense).

So far I've only seen explanation attempts that place the [Ark or other expedition]'s start during the reaper invasion.

(Which doesn't make much sense imo, mainly because of what Iakus and Vazgen said in this and the other threads.)

 

If the Andromeda expedition instead started <reasonable timespan> after the end of the trilogy, we could get a better explanation as to why all these familiar species went there, and additionally get an overview of the effects of the ME3 ending choice -without having to deal too much with it.

 

What do you expect them to do? It's not possible to continue with the Trilogy directly after the events in a smooth way, I never said otherwise. I only said they didn't mess up the storyline if the storyline occuring from ME1 to ME3 is what they wanted. The trilogy was planned as a trilogy, it ended the way so the Shepard era/story arc is completed and over. They probably knew they couldn't continue with this ending and they went for it anyway and accepted it because the end was supposed to be final.

Maybe they also wanted to actually really explore other regions in the next ME from the start, who knows. Many artists tend to go for new things, and not be stuck in the same place for too long. (The fans however.... )

We have nothing but rumours right now, but even if they decide to go for a new galaxy, that is no proof to me that they themselves acknowledge they've written themselves in a corner. Next ME could simply be cutting any ties with the old trilogy, so we wouldn't need an explanation for why they settle for another galaxy. Just a fresh, new story in a new place.

 

And as much as I love seeing old choices reflected in new games, sometimes there's just no reason to do so. And this here is one of them imo.

[ElitePinecone]

But you just used that survey to say Quarians will most likely be gone.

 

There might not even be quarians at all...

 

Remember the rumour that Mike Gamble asked people which races they'd be willing to see cut from the franchise? 

 

Seriously, dude. 

[CroGamer002]

And with that rumor, they might cut off krogans.

 

 

And they're not cutting off krogans, as krogans are first alien species confirmed to be back.

[Rosstoration]

I think if there's one way to describe the current state of the Mass Effect universe it would be bloated.

 

There needed to be a massive dumping of all the crap circling the current Mass Effect storyline, and I guess this Andromeda re-setting is one way to do it (although its not necessary to go to a different galaxy, the Milky Way is almost incomprehensibly massive, I agree with the meaning behind it though).

 

So much of the original trilogy has been demystified, everything had been retconned to revolve around Cerberus, and an entire galaxy worth of exploration, intrigue and knowledge just ended up a stale, stodgy mess. A far cry from what Mass Effect 1 had intended to be.

 

To be honest, I think it's the best decision, a spiritual sequel to Mass Effect 1. Also ridding the game of some of the more mundane species is a good way to go, the games seldom explored culture or nations/countries within the species themselves, hopefully this will actually allow for some depth to be granted to whatever remains.

[Heimdall]

There might not even be quarians at all...

Remember the rumour that Mike Gamble asked people which races they'd be willing to see cut from the franchise?

Hm, maybe, I'm just saying that this is how I could see it being done.

[ElitePinecone]

I just think that, given they might be mostly dead, the quarians are probably the easiest major race to get rid of in ME Next. Their storyline was also pretty much over by the time ME3 finished: they either recovered their homeworld, were sharing it with the geth, or died en masse. 

 

We could say the same about the krogan I guess, with the genophage, but I suspect they're more popular among fans and the developers.  

 

(And you could even argue krogan are more iconic as a representation of the series, given how much Wrex comes up in media coverage of the games)

[Heimdall]

I just think that, given they might be mostly dead, the quarians are probably the easiest major race to get rid of in ME Next. Their storyline was also pretty much over by the time ME3 finished: they either recovered their homeworld, were sharing it with the geth, or died en masse.

We could say the same about the krogan I guess, with the genophage, but I suspect they're more popular among fans and the developers.

(And you could even argue krogan are more iconic as a representation of the series, given how much Wrex comes up in media coverage of the games)

The Krogan have always been more fan favorites than Quarians, I think. I'd be very surprised if they got cut before the Quarians.

I just think exiled Quarians and new AI could be a very interesting new perspective.

[themikefest]

If we do end up in another galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised if we run into some Protheans, Insuannon and any species that were harvested before this cycle. They all had the same idea. They sent ships to another galaxy and now have repopulated the galaxy that we  have entered

[MrFob]

If we do end up in another galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised if we run into some Protheans, Insuannon and any species that were harvested before this cycle. They all had the same idea. They sent ships to another galaxy and now have repopulated the galaxy that we  have entered

 

If it were easy enough for all of them to do it, I guess we should find some reapers there, too, no?

[themikefest]

If it were easy enough for all of them to do it, I guess we should find some reapers there, too, no?

Don't know. As stupid as they are in ME3, I wouldn't be surprised if they are not in another galaxy

[ElitePinecone]

If we do end up in another galaxy, I wouldn't be surprised if we run into some Protheans, Insuannon and any species that were harvested before this cycle. They all had the same idea. They sent ships to another galaxy and now have repopulated the galaxy that we  have entered

 

Hm, I don't think so really... 

 

Every other cycle (including the Prothean one) started with a surprise attack on the Citadel that wiped out the galactic leadership, cut off communications and transport, and allowed the Reapers to access records from all over the galaxy. The war was basically over before it even began.

 

Nor did they have the information and motivation to make that decision to evacuate, now that I think about it. Only the current cycle knew beforehand about the Reapers harvesting all advanced life in the Milky Way, and that the Reapers wouldn't stop until everything was dead. We saw on Ilos that the Protheans tried surrendering or fighting or running, and none of it worked - but they probably didn't even consider evacuating to an entirely different galaxy until they lacked the resources to do so. They had no way of knowing that the Reapers would never stop and were in the service of a deranged AI. Only the current cycle knew that something so drastic would be required to escape from the Reapers more or less permanently, because we had advanced knowledge of what happened to the Protheans. 

 

The only reason humanity has enough time to organise a half-effective defence (and, maybe, a colonisation effort to Andromeda) is that we had years of warning from defeating Sovereign (and meeting Vigil), and the Protheans modified the Keepers to remove their ability to sabotage the Citadel. Every other cycle before us would've been decimated before they had the chance to even contemplate moving to another galaxy, I reckon.

[ElitePinecone]

Don't know. As stupid as they are in ME3, I wouldn't be surprised if they are not in another galaxy

 

And just on the Reapers, it's already been suggested that they are confined by their programming to the Milky Way. I don't think the Starkid would have enough original thought to expand the mandate of their mission to another galaxy. 

 

(And if the Reapers are present in Andromeda, are they present in more galaxies? How powerful must they be to wipe out life on such a huge scale, and how were we able to overcome them with only the resources from one galaxy?)

 

Plus, given the reaction to ME3 I think it's a wise move if the developers just never mention the Reapers ever again.