"Don't look behind the curtain. Don't think about why we're here rather than in the old setting. Look at all the new shinies and forget about the past."
Ignoring the endings is fine. But simply fleeing to the next galaxy rather than cleaning up the mess in our own house is kinda like the Laarus Project: pointless, wasteful, and nonsensical.
Mass Effect was about going to new worlds and seeing new places. A trip to another galaxy falls in line with that element of the story. Allowing the Milky Way Saga to end is not wasteful, it's respectful of the decisions people have made. You were given the power to change the very nature of the galaxy, and all it's inhabitants. To then go back and say "Nope, turns out you didn't fundamentally change anything" would be the real slap in the face. The point of traveling to a new galaxy is to open up possibilities that were not available to the player in the Milky Way. There's little room for an Explorer to also decide where and how to build colonies, while also being responsible for their protection and the investigation of ancient relics. The Milky Ways HAS organization set up to do just that...why would you be in charge and yet still on the front lines unless you were in a situation that force people to wear many different hats.
A ship reaching Andromeda with a live crew and not an out-of-control slagged hunk of metal would be breaking the lore.
Considering the Reapers regularly make Physics their plaything, it's become apparent to me that their Technology is more capable than people want to admit. I mean they set up a base at the Center of the Galaxy and designed a Relay that had far less drift than any other, and totally ignored the need for fuel. Taking all that into account, traveling to Andromeda s WEL within their abilities, and since the races of the universe have been studying their tech since Shepard slagged Soverign it's well within the realm of possibility that the MW Races would learn enough to make the trip feasible if still dangerous and one way.
"Don't look behind the curtain. Don't think about why we're here rather than in the old setting. Look at all the new shinies and forget about the past."
Actually you're here as a failsafe against total disaster, you're in a new setting because of the potential doors it opens and chances it provides to do something different while retaining a connection to a past that informs a new future in an alien world. All while allowing people's decisions in the previous trilogy to stand unchallenged as they would be in your version.
Considering the Reapers regularly make Physics their plaything, it's become apparent to me that their Technology is more capable than people want to admit. I mean they set up a base at the Center of the Galaxy and designed a Relay that had far less drift than any other, and totally ignored the need for fuel. Taking all that into account, traveling to Andromeda s WEL within their abilities, and since the races of the universe have been studying their tech since Shepard slagged Soverign it's well within the realm of possibility that the MW Races would learn enough to make the trip feasible if still dangerous and one way.
Iakus doesn't actually care about what's feasible or lore-based; he's unwilling to accept any progression in the ME series that isn't exactly what he wanted.
Oh I know, I've been watching Iakus for some time and have already seen other people call him on this. I'm just adding my voice to the proceedings.
It makes no sense traveling to a different galaxy. Why would anyone consider exploring another galaxy if only 1% has been discovered in the current one. And it's not like they couldn't recover and rebuild from the reaper invasion. Besides it would take a tremendous amount of time traveling to the Andromeda, unless some "space magic" is involved.
I wouldn't directly say Mass Effect = Milky Way, but it's still connected to which we fell in love with.
It makes no sense traveling to a different galaxy. Why would anyone consider exploring another galaxy if only 1% has been discovered in the current one. And it's not like they couldn't recover and rebuild from the reaper invasion. Besides it would take a tremendous amount of time traveling to the Andromeda, unless some "space magic" is involved.
I wouldn't directly say Mass Effect = Milky Way, but it's still connected to which we fell in love with.
Okay where are people getting this 1% figure in the first place.
Second, people moved to the terminus system to get away from the Alliance and the Citadel, not hard to see them going even further during the Reaper war.
The figured it would take about 250 years to reach the Andromeda galaxy. Between stasis and liveships it's doable.
I think it comes from a codex.Okay where are people getting this 1% figure in the first place.
Second, people moved to the terminus system to get away from the Alliance and the Citadel, not hard to see them going even further during the Reaper war.
The figured it would take about 250 years to reach the Andromeda galaxy. Between stasis and liveships it's doable.
Okay where are people getting this 1% figure in the first place.
In principle, I don't mind them starting new in a new area of space. Even the new galaxy doesn't bother me that much as long as it's done well, I'm fine with it. I would prefer to stay in the MW for a while but whatever, it all depends on execution.
Seeing the track record of the ME writing team ever since ME2, I just fear that the explanation of how we got there will be really wonky again and that would be something I would have a problem with.
Too often the writers seem go the route where they say: "Hey, we have this cool idea!" and then they go ahaed and plug it into the universe in the fastest way possible, o matter if it's believable or not.
"Hey, we want Shepard to die in the beginning of the next because BIG SHOCK!" so let's just have the Lazarus Project.
"Hey, we want Cerberus to have a huge army" So let's just give it to them
"Hey, we want a cool super-weapon to defeat the reapers" so lets just put the plans for it on Mars
"Hey, we want Deus Ex edning choices!" So let's just make the star kid.
I could go on.
Now: "Hey, we want the new game to take place in Andromeda" So let's just have a bunch of people go there in a big ship, we'll just give to them.
That's what I am afraid they'll do.
Okay where are people getting this 1% figure in the first place.
Citadel Space is an unofficial term referring to any region of space controlled by a species that acknowledges the authority of the Citadel Council. At first glance, it appears this territory encompasses most of the galaxy. In reality, however, less than 1% of the stars have been explored.
I think it comes from a codex.
Though the argument people make with it kinda misses the whole point.
It does, since you activated all the Relays every single portion of the galaxy was impacted, so no matter where you go...the effects of that choice are present.
I think it comes from a codex.
Though the argument people make with it kinda misses the whole point.
Ah thank you.
Seeing the track record of the ME writing team ever since ME2, I just fear that the explanation of how we got there will be really wonky again and that would be something I would have a problem with.
Too often the writers seem go the route where they say: "Hey, we have this cool idea!" and then they go ahaed and plug it into the universe in the fastest way possible, o matter if it's believable or not.
"Hey, we want Shepard to die" so let's just have the Lazarus Project.
"Hey, we want Cerberus to have a huge army" So let's just give it to them
"Hey, we want a cool superweapon to defeat the reapers" so lets just put the plans for it on Mars
I could go on.
Now: Ney, we want the new game to take place in Andromeda" So let's just have a bunch of people go there in a big ship.
That's what I am afraid they'll do.
Bah, you're not even including the beacon and the Thorian-delivered cipher, which are just as guilty of nonsensical "rule of cool" just to make the PC special.
IMO, being the first game, ME1 had a bit more latitude with this sort of stuff.
Besides, the beacon was a rather believable progression from the fact that prothean archives and ruins were already found before.
I also really like the cypher, actually. I even made a thread about it once. 
I am not disputing that all of this is subjective and in a way a matter of taste. As I have written yesterday in another thread, different people have different thresholds when it comes to introducing new lore and I consider myself as one who likes to move rather slowly.
But yea, even the subject matter that irks different people can differ and I know very well that you don't like the beacon and the thorian. And of course, they are plot devices but at least, in both cases, the game spends quite a bit of time to set them up (in case of the thorian it is about a quarter of the main ME1 storyline). In these other cases, I mentioned above, no time is spent to set them up at all, they just come out of the blue. I have no problem with develping new lore but time and care needs to be taken with it, especially if they are plot devices.
And I am afraid, that is exactly what will happen here too.
IMO, being the first game, ME1 had a bit more latitude with this sort of stuff.
Besides, the beacon was a rather believable progression from the fact that prothean archives and ruins were already found before.
I also really like the cypher, actually.
Hey, I did go into a bit more of a reasoned explanation in the rest of my post. You shouldn't just cut that out and just take my (admittedly snarky) provocative opening sentences that are in part there to grab your attention.
As for ME1 having more latitude, it does the world building and there is no per-established lore before it. In that sense, everything in (at least the beginning of) ME1 comes out of nowhere. Eezo comes out of nowhere in ME1 because there was nothing there before it (except Revelation which kind of belongs to ME1 in my mind and they fit together very well). So, of course, in the first game, you have to come up with new stuff out of nothing. But later games (and other media) in the same universe should stick to what has been established and if they want to introduce new things, that should be done with time and care.
Hey, I did go into a bit more of a reasoned explanation in the rest of my post. You shouldn't just cut that out and jst take my (admittedly snarky) provocative opening sentences that are in part there to grab your attention.
As for ME1 having more latitude, it does the world building and there is no per-established lore before it. In that sense, everything in (at least the beginning) of ME1 comes out of nowhere. Eezo comes out of nowhere in ME1 because there was nothing there before it (except Revelation which kind of belongs to ME1 in my mind and they fit together very well). So, of course, in the first game, you have to come up with new stuff out of nothing. But later games (and other media) in the same universe should stick to what has been established and if they want to introduce new things, that should be done with time and care.
Expand on what you already have before you add something new
That said, I would have liked ME2 a lot more if they had delved more into the beacon d the cipher rather than give us the LOLazarus Project.
That's probably one of things that bothers me most in this series. A coma would have served just as well to advance the clock, but no, they had to be "edgy" and do space necromancy. And the Cipher went completely wasted...Sanderson's Third Law:
Expand on what you already have before you add something new
That said, I would have liked ME2 a lot more if they had delved more into the beacon d the cipher rather than give us the LOLazarus Project.
Hey, I did go into a bit more of a reasoned explanation in the rest of my post. You shouldn't just cut that out and jst take my (admittedly snarky) provocative opening sentences that are in part there to grab your attention.
As for ME1 have more latitude, it does the world building and there is no per-established lore before it.
In that sense, everything in (at least the beginning) of ME1 comes out of nowhere. Eezo comes out of nowhere in ME1 because there was nothing there before it (except Revelation which kind of belongs to ME1 in my mind and they ft together very well). So, of course, in the first game, you have to come up with new stuff.
But later games (and other media) in the same universe should stick to what has been established and if they want to introduce new things, that should be done with time and care.
That's probably one of things that bothers me most in this series. A coma would have served just as well to advance the clock, but no, they had to be "edgy" and do space necromancy. And the Cipher went completely wasted...
I just think that if they were going to ignore the whole ending thing anyway, if they were going to make it into semi-myth then what is the point of going to a new galaxy? They could have easily made exactly the same activities in the Milky Way and just dress it up as post-war rebuilding and exploration.
And I think we already had a thread that proved quite sufficiently that going to another galaxy while the war was not finished or in its last days was utterly unfeasible from everyones point of view. I am a bit wary that what they are going to do as an "explanation" is going to only make sense on its own, without taking into the account the previous games and the lore.
Sure, not a free pass but more latitude. Of course, what is there needs to make sense.Apologies. I was just replying to the direct points of your post.
That doesn't give it a free pass, though. Nonsense is nonsense, and both the beacon's messages and the cipher are hand-waved "rule of cool" nonsense.
Sure, not a free pass, just more latitude. As for the beacon
I agree, but again, that doesn't give you a free pass. And there's plenty of nonsense in ME1 beyond forgivable world-building.
Yep, that's pretty much what I wrote in that second part that other post above. No argument there.I don't disagree, but that's also highly subjective. Especially when it comes to the line between "adding something new" and "elaborating on what's there".
See, at least something we can agree on.For the record, I think tricking out vessels with Reaper drive cores and other modified engineering then high-tailing it to Andromeda during the war is a load of bunk.
Sure, not a free pass but more latitude.
Of course, what is there needs to make sense.
I don't think the cypher and the beacon need to be nonsense. Their exact workings are kept rather vague and I find the effects of both fascinating and quite believable (I actually have a relevant background in RL, not that that makes my opinion any less subjective but I do believe that a device like the beacon could eventually be constructed in the future).
I am happy to have a more specific discussion about both but I am afraid it will steer us far off topic in this thread.
See, at least something we can agree on.
Iakus doesn't actually care about what's feasible or lore-based; he's unwilling to accept any progression in the ME series that isn't exactly what he wanted.
If that's what I thought I'd say "MEHEM or gtfo" Which is not what I'm saying at all.
Heck, if that's all I cared about, I'd be fine with Andromeda. It would actually make it easier for me to headcanon it.
Honestly, ChronoDragon, I expected better from you.
I just think that if they were going to ignore the whole ending thing anyway, if they were going to make it into semi-myth then what is the point of going to a new galaxy? They could have easily made exactly the same activities in the Milky Way and just dress it up as post-war rebuilding and exploration.
I hate that phrase when used by fans, because it's so often not true. Considering the changes in the setting the endings could bring about, there's no "Easily Make" when it comes to starting a new story in the Milky Way Galaxy. Too much has changed, too much needs to be accounted for in such a game for it to be "Easy". Oh I know some people will accept a handwave that allows them to do more in the Milky Way because that's what they prefer but it dosen't make it easy or even a good idea. Bioware told that Milky Way story, finished it up and gave you a conclusion, you may not have liked it, and that's fine but it was concluded with an epiloge to the whole thing to boot. There is no requirment to revist that Campaign setting again, moving on to sometheing different and new is a valid decision.
No, not the same. I too think that there are issues with certain points in ME1, just not the same ones that you have. I am not giving it a free pass, I am allowing them to introduce more new stuff in ME1 than in ME2/3.Potato, po-tah-toe. Semantics, sir.
To clarify, if some things are left vague, there needs to be a good reason why they are vague.To what degree? Because a lot of stuff throughout the entire series, especially the seemingly untouchable ME1, only works with leeway and headcanon.
Again, I think giving that content a pass as being both "vague" and "believable" is pretty unfair.
As this is fairly specific to the beacon and cypher, I am gonna skip this here but as I said, happy to take it to another thread.There's a difference between the tech involved with the beacon (touch-based memory devices) being speculatively feasible and the contrived way the messages' fragmentation work in ME1, especially in conjunction with the Thorian's production of the absolutely crucial "essence of being a Prothean".
Not to mention Shepard hurling either Kaidan or Ashley out of the way and the beacon lifting Space Jesus into the air with glowing green energy, but that another discussion.
Probably for the best.
That's easy to agree on.
I think we can all agree that there was technology and whatnot in Mass Effect that could have been explained and used a lot better. Just like every other large science fiction story out there.
However, putting it all on the same level of 'nonsense' is flatly moronic.
So no, 'nonsense' is not 'nonsense' at all. The Mass Effect does not exist. It's fictional. It's in the story as a necessity to make FTL travel and such work. It's 'nonsense.' But it's nonsense explained and stuck to fairly well, which is about all a story can possibly do for that sort of thing.
And equating it with something that's a complete mess like Synthesis or the Crucible is stupid.
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