16 réponses à ce sujet

[jgwhiteus]

While I enjoy Iron Bull and Cole as characters, in previous playthroughs I never really used them much because I felt like if I ignored them for a second they'd deplete their health and start gobbling potions like nobody's business.

 

I'd really like to use them in my current Nightmare playthrough, but short of doing a re-spec to make them sword & shield or archer, I'm not quite sure how to build them to extend their survivability / limit potion use / hopefully limit hand-holding (and also maybe maximize their DPS).

 

So what recommendations do you have? Feel free to give suggestions on:

- Skills / Tactics (which should be preferred / disabled / enabled?)

- Equipment (is Guard on Hit essential?)

 

And feel free to throw in suggestions on good party companions to include with them while you're at it - with whom do they have great banter?

[PapaCharlie9]

Before or after Skyhold?

 

After Skyhold, your focus (no pun intended) should be on getting the most out of their specializations. Reaver does more damage with low health, so you use Devour and gear to restore it/keep it in balance without sinking too low. Cole has a lot of options, but most people build toward Mark of Death (MoD), since it is OP. You can speed kill dragons with MoD and some supporting damage dealing skill from another party member, like Tempest Lightning Flask.

 

Guard on hit would be good for IB. Cole should not need it since he should rarely get hit. Cole should be deep into the Subterfuge tree, with getting Ambush as a priority.

 

Before Skyhold its more about getting Tier 2 gear with mostly Tier 2 materials. IB can build guard with a few different skills, like Charging Bull and War Cry. Cole can use Stealth and Skirmisher to stay out of danger.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a mage spam barrier on both of them as much as possible.

[jgwhiteus]

Before or after Skyhold?

 

After Skyhold, your focus (no pun intended) should be on getting the most out of their specializations. Reaver does more damage with low health, so you use Devour and gear to restore it/keep it in balance without sinking too low. Cole has a lot of options, but most people build toward Mark of Death (MoD), since it is OP. You can speed kill dragons with MoD and some supporting damage dealing skill from another party member, like Tempest Lightning Flask.

 

Guard on hit would be good for IB. Cole should not need it since he should rarely get hit. Cole should be deep into the Subterfuge tree, with getting Ambush as a priority.

 

Before Skyhold its more about getting Tier 2 gear with mostly Tier 2 materials. IB can build guard with a few different skills, like Charging Bull and War Cry. Cole can use Stealth and Skirmisher to stay out of danger.

 

Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a mage spam barrier on both of them as much as possible.

 

Thanks, that's helpful - and yeah, I'm talking about after Skyhold and they've started their specializations. Hmm, it makes me nervous to keep IB in low health, because I feel he's always one hit away from biting it, but maybe I'll craft some guard on hit / heal on kill gear for him and disable his automatic potion use.

[PapaCharlie9]

Thanks, that's helpful - and yeah, I'm talking about after Skyhold and they've started their specializations. Hmm, it makes me nervous to keep IB in low health, because I feel he's always one hit away from biting it, but maybe I'll craft some guard on hit / heal on kill gear for him and disable his automatic potion use.

If you disable completely, you have to micromanage IBs health more. An alternative is to set the reserve higher, like 5. If you have 12 in slot, use 8.

 

And of course you are fully upgrading all healing potions, right? Regen might be best for IB, since it doesn't restore all his health at once. But don't hold off on upgrading regen for IB's sake, the rest of the party needs it as full strength.

 

Don't overlook War Cry and Horn of Valor. HoV costs a lot of points, but it helps the whole party. Of the 8 or so skill points I usually have before doing the Templar/Mage quest, I use 4 to get HoV, 2 in Vanguard to get War Cry and Charging Bull, and the rest in the 2H tree, usually towards Whirlwind. Then after Skyhold I respec to spend Battlemaster points on Reaver, but as soon as I can, I go back and buy those Battlemaster skills back.

 

I'm just repeating some of the advice I read in this thread and in others (look for more links in the thread):

 

http://forum.bioware...handed-warrior/

[RedLens37]

Iron Bull doesn't tank as well as Blackwell or Cassandra, but I used him as my tank in my latest nightmare playthrough with my Inquisitor necromancer, Solas and Sera as my main party. He's set to prefer war cry and challenge and has the vanguard passives, and I kept him as a two-hander with mighty blow, block-and-slash and whirlwind. He doesn't use any Reaver skills, but he's got all the reaver passives. With Solas keeping barriers up and the occassional revival, Bull stays alive pretty well and dishes out some decent damage.

 

The party is focused on setting up panic and aoe effects and then taking advantage. Sera has the mercy killing passive, Solas doesn't do much but barrier, revival and pull of the abyss. Bull keeps the aggro pretty well, and my necro kills all the things.

 

I love the banter between Sera and Bull. They talk about combat ideas and Bull complains about Sera's "kill stealing", lol.

[capn233]

For Iron Bull if I didn't want to control him all the time, I would invest a bit in the first part of the 2H tree, go heavy into Vanguard, and focus more on passives in Reaver once it is unlocked.  AI seems to be mediocre at managing health with the usual reaver skills, but is pretty decent with vanilla warrior stuff.

[Alan Drifter13]

The AI is really bad at using Iron Bull as a reaver. Some basics you need to do to stop him from dying are giving him some guard generation skills (eg challenge, chargin bull) and... well, basically not using much of the reaver tree. Though it looks like he's "meant" to be played with the battlemaster tree, you'll have several points in the vanguard tree or else he'll die too soon to be useful.

 

Cole is a completely different story. Properly set, he shouldn't die much. Basically set stealth to favorite, and make sure your tank is taunting everyone. Cole should be attacking enemies from behind and going back to stealth as soon as possible. Upgrade flank attack so he's still in stealth after using it too. Forget about his focus skill (it's the worst one in the game) and upgrade hidden blades and mark of death, they are both great and combined they are a boss killer (including dragons). Be sure to craft some great daggers for him, his DPS should be extremely high for him to make your fights much shorter. Oh, and make sure he has auto-crit when he attacks from stealth (there's a passive for that) and give him as much cunning as possible.

[SirValeq]

Who should Cole follow in his tactics? Himself or the tank?

[Duelist]

I personally had a lot of success with him by getting his crit chance as high as possible.
Set Devour, Combat Roll and War Cry to preferred then left him to his own devices.
IMO, crit based passives will keep him alive a lot longer than defense.

As for Cole, Alan Drifter put it best although I like to give him Heal On Kill just to be on the safe side.

[Alan Drifter13]

Who should Cole follow in his tactics? Himself or the tank?

 

The tank. I only put ranged characters to follow themselves (so they stay out of melee range). DW Cole should be flanking (and quickly killing) whoever is being taunted by the tank.

 

I personally had a lot of success with him by getting his crit chance as high as possible.
Set Devour, Combat Roll and War Cry to preferred then left him to his own devices.
IMO, crit based passives will keep him alive a lot longer than defense.

As for Cole, Alan Drifter put it best although I like to give him Heal On Kill just to be on the safe side.

 

Yup, heal on kill on your DW rogue is always a good idea.

[jgwhiteus]

Thanks for all these suggestions by the way - I redid Iron Bull's and Cole's skills and upgraded their equipment and they're much better about surviving fights and dealing damage. I mean, I'm not going to take them on any Dragon fights anytime soon (heck, half the time I just let my Rogue Inquisitor stay dead while Vivienne, Blackwall and Cassandra take care of the dragons), but they handle regular combat pretty well and can finish some fights really quickly.

[Deadly dwarf]

Nice thread!  I was having problems with IB and Cole dying too quickly as well.  I've never had my inquisitor adopt their specializations and thus, don't fully understand them.  I'll have to reconfigure them using the recommendations here.

[Digger1967]

I usually set up iron bull as sword and shield with skills from vanguard to generate guard. I find him far more effective that way, at higher levels I start adding in stuff from the battlemaster tree and don't normally even use reaver.

[Alan Drifter13]

Thanks for all these suggestions by the way - I redid Iron Bull's and Cole's skills and upgraded their equipment and they're much better about surviving fights and dealing damage. I mean, I'm not going to take them on any Dragon fights anytime soon (heck, half the time I just let my Rogue Inquisitor stay dead while Vivienne, Blackwall and Cassandra take care of the dragons), but they handle regular combat pretty well and can finish some fights really quickly.

 

Cole is THE BEST companion to bring against dragons, because Mark of Death is the skill that lets you kill them in no time:

 

[PapaCharlie9]

Cole is THE BEST companion to bring against dragons, because Mark of Death is the skill that lets you kill them in no time: is the most OP.

 

Fixed it for you.

[capn233]

Fixed it for you.

 

Yeah it is pretty handy, I just finished a dagger rogue assassin last night and hit Corypheus's little pet for 39,000 and some change.

[PapaCharlie9]

Yeah it is pretty handy, I just finished a dagger rogue assassin last night and hit Corypheus's little pet for 39,000 and some change.

I may gripe about OP this and OP that, but I love to see those 5 digit damage numbers as much as anyone. Very nice!