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[Geth Supremacy]

Thanks NextArrishok308;

 

Just so you know, anyone who would throw "SJW" into a critique of DAI loses all credibility with me. 

 

One of the best features of DAI is the ability to ignore the aspects you don't like, and concentrate on the ones you do. 

But if you focus on the parts of the game that you dislike or that disappoint you, guess what? You'll be disappointed.

 

Fair enough.  I can name many things I like about all Bioware games I have played except DAI.

 

I tried very hard to like DAI.  I tried very hard to make it all the way through the game.   I think gameplay is very weak and overly easy.  I feel it is very watered down and has minimal improvements.  I mean seriously....what was improved about it?  I also don't call the removal of healing an improvement.  They replaced giving replacement health with giving an additional health bar with barrier.  Went away from what Dragon Age had in place for what reason?  Did that improve the game in any way?

 

If anyone feels like the actual gameplay of this game was improved on or given a lot of attention I would enjoy hearing it.  Not to argue, but to see someone viewpoint on how that happened.

 

I don't have a problem with people not agreeing what I say, but I never see how or why they feel that way.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

<snip>

If anyone feels like the actual gameplay of this game was improved on or given a lot of attention I would enjoy hearing it.  Not to argue, but to see someone viewpoint on how that happened.

 

After an initial shock of feeling fairly lost, I found the sheer scale of the world a delight. 

 

Yes, I spent waaaaaay  too much time in the Hinterlands during my first playthrough.  And yes, and felt like it was a pointless grind at times.  That was because I didn't understand the structure of the game. 

 

But I finally I figured out (after 200+ hours) that I didn't need to bother with any missions or requests unless they were part of either the "Inquisitor's Path", or a Companion's PQ, ('cuz I always have to do those!)  Any that didn't interest me I could ignore, and that would be fine.

 

Once I "got" that, the game became much more enjoyable for my next three playthroughs (and counting!) 

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes, the most disappointment I have ever experienced with a BW game. Not to worry, all is not lost, the Witcher wild hunt shall be with us very soon.

I might trade in my DAI coy for store credit towards a TW3 reservation.

[Wolven_Soul]

I found the over

 

 

After an initial shock of feeling fairly lost, I found the sheer scale of the world a delight. 

 

Yes, I spent waaaaaay  too much time in the Hinterlands during my first playthrough.  And yes, and felt like it was a pointless grind at times.  That was because I didn't understand the structure of the game. 

 

But I finally I figured out (after 200+ hours) that I didn't need to bother with any missions or requests unless they were part of either the "Inquisitor's Path", or a Companion's PQ, ('cuz I always have to do those!)  Any that didn't interest me I could ignore, and that would be fine.

 

Once I "got" that, the game became much more enjoyable for my next three playthroughs (and counting!) 

Now, see when I buy an open world RPG, I expect to find more to do that is fun and interesting besides just the main story line.  I expect good side content.  Yes, expect.  Good side content is non negotiable in an open world RPG.  DA:I simply did not have it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DA:I simply did not have it.

I think it does

I also like how the dividing line between side-quests and main quests is less rigid now. Ideally they'll completely abandon the concept in the next game.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Now, see when I buy an open world RPG, I expect to find more to do that is fun and interesting besides just the main story line.  I expect good side content.  Yes, expect.  Good side content is non negotiable in an open world RPG.  DA:I simply did not have it.

 

And others think it *did* have a lot of "interesting side content".  There is simply such a huge amount that, as Tolkien once remarked, "It is not possible to please everyone on all points."  The very ones that some may have particularly disliked, (e.g. the oculara/shards/temple) may be others' favourites.

[correctamundo]

And others think it *did* have a lot of "interesting side content".  There is simply such a huge amount that, as Tolkien once remarked, "It is not possible to please everyone on all points."  The very ones that some may have particularly disliked, (e.g. the oculara/shards/temple) may be others' favourites.

 

Yes, and since you can by power and influence from a merchant you are not really obliged to do any of the lesser side objectives at all.

[Fiery Phoenix]

The game does a pretty terrible job guiding you through on your first playthrough. That and it starts pretty slow. I think a lot of these complaints are because of at least one of these two reasons, both of which can be attributed to bad game design.

 

That said, I do think the characters are perhaps the game's strongest point.

[correctamundo]

More guiding from the game and we would have threads upon threads concerning the excessive "handholding" and how that is basically "bad game design" ;-)

[Elhanan]

More guiding from the game and we would have threads upon threads concerning the excessive "handholding" and how that is basically "bad game design" ;-)

Agreed. It is not like that the game asked the Inq to return to Haven from the Hinterlands to gain information, and while there included a cut-scene explaining the possibility of travel elsewhere for storied purposes. Actually, it was almost exactly like that....

[RedLens37]

Agreed. It is not like that the game asked the Inq to return to Haven from the Hinterlands to gain information, and while there included a cut-scene explaining the possibility of travel elsewhere for storied purposes. Actually, it was almost exactly like that....

In hindsight it does seem blatantly clear but I do think this was a failing. I have enjoyed subsequent playthroughs so much more than I did my first. It helps me so much to have a plan in place with some idea what I want to do and where I want to go. I don't know what could have been done differently but something to make the first time not so overwhelming would have helped me.

[Wolven_Soul]

And others think it *did* have a lot of "interesting side content".  There is simply such a huge amount that, as Tolkien once remarked, "It is not possible to please everyone on all points."  The very ones that some may have particularly disliked, (e.g. the oculara/shards/temple) may be others' favourites.

 

Such a huge amount...yes, there was a huge amount of side content.  And most of it was as dull as dishwater.  The only side content that was at all interesting was the character specific stories, and even they were hit and miss in Inquisition.  

 

It has been said before, but what the heck I will say it again.  Inquisition dropped the ball in a major way with it's side content.  There were so many quests in this game that at first, I was looking forward to the different ways that it could play out.  Most notably, the quest in the Hinterlands where we come across the note regarding the two brothers, one a templar and one a mage.  There was so much potential in this one quest alone.  They could have given us choices, help the templar, help the mage, try to talk sense into them, kill them both.  But no, we didn't get that.  We find a dead body and some loot.  That was it.  

 

Even some of the more interesting content ended in such a flat, boring way.  Like the part where we drain the lake to get to the portal.  We don't get to make any meaningful choices here either.  Yeah, we get to decide the fate of the mayor guy, (was he a mayor?  I can't remember), but this is after the fact.  After the mission is already done. 

 

Then another part I was initially interested in, and ultimately let down by, was the ruins where everyone got time frozen.  Rather than give us some good dialogue and choices, we just run through the place, kill everything, and learn about what happened through some notes.  Booooorrrriiiiinnnnggggg.

 

Dragon Age Origins, and even Dragon Age 2 had a lot of meaningful side content choices.  Inquisition simply does not.  The only side content in this game I have any good memories of were the Ocularum thingies.  Is what what they were called?  The constellation puzzles.  Yeah I don't remember names of things very well.  Especially in games where I was so often bored that my memories of it just start to fade away.  And it hasn't even been 'that' long either.

[Wolven_Soul]

Yes, and since you can by power and influence from a merchant you are not really obliged to do any of the lesser side objectives at all.

 

The fact that you can do this just tells me that Bioware knew that it's side content was going to be so bad.

[Elhanan]

The fact that you can do this just tells me that Bioware knew that it's side content was going to be so bad.

Or perhaps, options such as this and Codex and Dialogue bonuses make for decent choices. Like when choosing to skip the Chanter/ Mercenary boards that offer only notes.....

[Wolven_Soul]

Or perhaps, options such as this and Codex and Dialogue bonuses make for decent choices. Like when choosing to skip the Chanter/ Mercenary boards that offer only notes.....

 

Choosing to purchase power and influence is a decent choice?  No, not really.  I really disliked that you were able to do this, and I detested the majority of the side content in this game.  The side content it supposed to be there to be explored.  

 

Now, if the option to do as such only appeared after you completed your first play through, that would make more sense.  Then it would be understandable not to want to do some of the same stuff over again, especially as the only content that had more than one possible outcome was the character specific missions.  

[correctamundo]

Choosing to purchase power and influence is a decent choice?  No, not really.  I really disliked that you were able to do this, and I detested the majority of the side content in this game.  The side content it supposed to be there to be explored.  

 

Now, if the option to do as such only appeared after you completed your first play through, that would make more sense.  Then it would be understandable not to want to do some of the same stuff over again, especially as the only content that had more than one possible outcome was the character specific missions.  

 

What does it matter to you if someone else prefers to play mainstory and by power to advance it without picking shards and whatnot? In a single player game? Giving the power of choice to the player is wrong? That is an alien thought over here.

 

I like the side content and I like to explore. Requisitions, shards and all that I take on the way.

 

And by the way, I think you are spoiling to much up there.

[Elhanan]

Choosing to purchase power and influence is a decent choice?  No, not really.  I really disliked that you were able to do this, and I detested the majority of the side content in this game.  The side content it supposed to be there to be explored.  
 
Now, if the option to do as such only appeared after you completed your first play through, that would make more sense.  Then it would be understandable not to want to do some of the same stuff over again, especially as the only content that had more than one possible outcome was the character specific missions.

Then as your options, you could choose not to purchase Influence, not gather Shards, etc. My choices were to only gather a certain number of Shards, use a couple of Codex bonuses, forget about the bottles, and pass on morally ambiguous quests for the first two Inq's. Personally, I like having choices, esp if they allow me to better tailor the experience.

[Ravenfeeder]

I must admit, much as I enjoy the game - and I do - I felt that purchasing Influence really cheapened it. Influence and Power are the two key pillars of the Inquisition strategy minigame. That minigame adds huge amounts of atmosphere and background to the actions of the Inquisitor that I want it to feel earned. Yes I have to earn to cash, but it still unfulfilling. I'd prefer to be able to swap Power for Influence given how much spare you end up with.

[Marshal Moriarty]

The thing is, all the stats are meaningless and that goes for money as well. You always have tens of thousands of Gold Coins, and nothing to spend it on. Buying weapons and armour is pointless when you are finding new gear all the time and could craft even better stuff yourself. I never bought anything, so I ended the game as the richest person who ever lived! in this, it is in the same boat as games like Skyrim etc which always give you loads of money and nothing truly worth buying. This is all the more tragic, given that Dragon Age: Origins was one of the few games to actually do this right. Severely restricting the amount of gold you had, relative to the price of the game's better gear. And making that gear sufficiently impressive, that you did want them. It meant you had to careful how you spent your money, and it was more of an incentive both to do quests in general, but also how to approach asking people for payment, whether to accept rewards from people who probably can't afford it, whether or not you should engage in slightly shadier work etc etc.

 

And again, people come on here insisting that the side quests and side content is great. 'Its our opinion!' they cry. 'Just beause you don't like them...' they proclaim. And yet when we ask them for some examples of this amazing side content, as we have repeatedly done during this thread alone (this is at least my 3rd time asking this question and I've yet to receive an answer). So maybe we'll have more luck this time. What are the good side missions in this game? Side missions that feature quality NPC interaction, have an actual story, aren't just fetch and carry busy work or 'Put the thing on the other thing?' 

 

It doesn't take much to make a mission interesting, even sometimes after the fact. You just need a hook, something to hold onto that makes the excercise worthwhile.The whole business with the painted box for the Friends of Red Jenny in Origins for example. For the duration of that fetch and carry quest, I barely registered I was even doing it, not really noticing when I picked it up etc. And yet when I delivered it, the scene with the mysterious guy behind the door, and the lack of any answers, made me curious. What was that box actually? Who is Red Jenny? This was a level of interest that made what should have been a tedious fetch and carry quest worthwhile. Especially because the game isn't asking you to go out of your way for this stuff (you'll get the box, location and visit the drop off point naturally anyway). And it isn't holding such quests up as major side content- its just one of the little quests you could do. Like the Irregulars missions etc etc, this kind of busy work has always existed in Bioware games. But to make a whole game out of such stuff?!

 

But you tell us that this is not so in Inquisition? Well then please tell us more, because we have failed to find these quests evidently! And if you're worried about some kind of ridicule, then I simply put it to you that t I do respect other people's opinions, even if I don't agree with them. And I am willing to hear sensible argument. If people make valid points, I like to think I'm man enough to admit it, and even to admit when I might be wrong. Without that, the internet is just a lot of people shouting at each other. But equally I don't like to be messed about, and I won't be fobbed off with this continual 'Oh, this game has tons of great side content' excuses anymore. No more dodging of this question.

 

So let's get specific shall we, so we all know we stand? If you think there are great side quests in this game, then let's have them. Which ones are they? Why are they great? Give us some examples. Nobody disputes that the idea behind most of the zones are decent ones, but the actual reality of gaming in those zones is (again IMO) just an awful lot of grinding, planting flags, and picking up bric a brac. Its exasperating that under these circumstances, Quests that have only the thinnest layer of substance, become the ones that you are seeking out. Just so you are 'generally bored and disappointed' rather than 'So unengaged, you lose the power of speech and motion'.

[Elhanan]

Good side quests:

* All of the Dragon encounters, though the ones on the Storm Coast and Western Approach are personal faves. And all are optional.
* Ally with the aggressors on the Storm Coast, or not. Both have been done.
* Capturing the Keeps in the Western Approach, Crestwood, The Lion, The Fallow Mire.
* Seeking the lost tombs in the Hissing Wastes.
* Capturing foes to be placed on trial, and the trials themselves.
* Uncovering the mystery in Crestwood.
* Aiding the refugees in the Emerald Graves. Also using a Noble as an Agent, or not.
* Helping Companions with their personal quests (eg; Cassandra, Cullen, Cole, Varric).
* Saving and seeing what happened to the Haven NPC's.

Of course, these are only my opinions. I also enjoyed helping the war refugees, and then seeing them later, but this was with beneficial Inq's.

[correctamundo]

There are a lot of nice small side dishes like "strange bedfellows", "the ballad of lord Woolsley" and "playing with fire" that have their own special twist.

[Ravenfeeder]

As alluded to by Sylvius, a lot of the side quests aren't necessarily self-contained items. They are part of the main Inquisition thread. They are about how you build the organisation and generate trust and a following for it. If you feel that the game should be Quizzy + companions against the big bad I can see that these would feel shallow and unrewarding.

 

To me the growth of the Inquisition and its politics are a central theme to the game. I'm disappointed that most of the set pieces are to do with the Inquisitor thwarting the plans of the big bad, rather than pro-active ones about the Inquisition. Even the infamous 10 ram meat quest is part of this, building your reputation with the common folk and then being part of recruiting them as agents. It's part of a whole, not a thing in itself.

 

Could they have done this better? Certainly. But within the restricted resources of an AAA video game it was still a good effort.

[duckley]

As I have said elsewhere, I try to differentiate between side quests, go-fetch quests and collections. Side quests - for examp0le the companion quests, or quests to help you recruit agents - are part of the game for me. Go fetch (lay flowers on a grave, find mamas ring, bring my father sword to,,,) are not needed - but I actually enjoy them. Its a way for me to search every nook and cranny of the beautiful maps and some of them at least help to create some good will for the Inquisition. The collection quests (shards, artifacts, maps, puzzle pieces) I found kind of fun to do.,

 

I do agree it is easy to get lost in the collections and go fetchers - and lose focus, but then again, you don't need those quests and can chose not to do them

[rapscallioness]

I've already mentioned some areas I would like to see BW/DA improve upon in the future. But I think DAI is a very good game, and they got many more things right than not.

 

I'm doing a new PT with the Black Emporium dlc. I've noticed for one thing that my companions now have a consistent and steady rate of banter. This simply was not the case for my pt's beforehand. Even in the Hinterlands, before, I got no banter, and no music. This definitely negatively impacted my experience.

 

Something that really helped with my enjoyment this time, too, is that I've done the pacing a bit different. I said to myself, "Eff it. I 'm running all over the Hinterlands for as long as I want. All at once."  Except for the Val Royeaux meeting. But I cleared out a great deal of Hinterlands; cleared out Storm Coast and Fallow Mire, (so  much rain. I felt so soggy, lol!). And it was fun. It felt more quest-y for me because I confined myself to one area for so long.

 

It was also more fun because my companions actually felt alive and present this time. For the first time. They talked all over the Hinterlands; Fallow Mire and Storm Coast. It was fantastic. And such great lines.

 

More than that, however, I found that pacing it out this way--for me--and not rushing to do the mage/templar quest made the overall game feel more natural. I just finished the mage/templar thing, at level 10 (recommended lvl is 4-7) with 56 power points. It feels as though the Breach ahs been going on awhile now. It feels like the mage-templar war has been going on longer now. I'm more attached to Haven because I've been there awhile now. Love listening to all the interactions between the assistants carrying messages and the craftspeople chewing them out, "You tell Segrit...!" Poor assistants. lol! I like that detail.

 

It feels like heck, yeah I should be Inquisitor because I've been busting my butt all over the place now. Before I went off to do the mage/templar quests as soon as I got 15 power, or close to it. It's very easy to get power so that happened quickly. Rushing off to do it made the whole solving of the m/t war and the sealing of the Breach feel premature. And also made me feel like my PC had not actually earned the title of Inquisitor. It had all happened too fast.

 

So, OP, I would suggest experimenting with a different pace. Something tailored for your personal pacing preferences. For me, dealing with the m/t war and the breach quite a bit later in the game just felt much more natural, and gave me the opportunity to settle in and Feel the narrative they were working to present.

 

We'll see how it goes from here. Wish me luck in the Western Approach...*plz let there be banter. plz let there be banter...

[Drantwo]

I pretty much find the side quests presented by Elhanan in his list to be enjoyable save for one or two, obviously my opinion. Having said that, I do find a big flaw in Inquisition's side quest design.

 

I think CronoDragoon nails it perfectly in his thread.

 

http://forum.bioware...e-quest-design/

 

I don't think DA:I should be totally devoid of "Go to point B from Point A to do this" quests or all of side quests having cinematic dialogue. The latter would simply require a lot of time for development. So for me, CronoDragoon's model would work with the addition that all these areas would somehow affect our main plot. The fact that one can totally skip Hissing Wastes, Exalted Plains, Fallow Mire etc is somewhat disappointing because they are potentially good areas to be explored..especially Hissing Wastes.  The Tomb Fairel (or however it is spelt) is the main side quest or the longest side quest in that area. So lets say that it rewards you in some way that would help you (hell I wouldn't even mind a Dwarven construct like those from Skyrim) ,even if in minor way, against Corypheus; would give me some incentive to go there and would really increase the immersion. It will give me the feeling that I am going there not only for those other side quests, but also doing something constructive that will help the main campaign in some way. One of my main criticism would vanish. Again, just my opinion.