29 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashii6]

Normally I wouldn't be bothered with this issue, but since shops don't have anything good in stock ( Even with perks ), this really just makes me wanna... *disgusted noise*

Okay, so few days ago I killed my first dragon, in hinterlands, obviously. I was lvl 15 and he was lvl 12. Either way, the fight wasn't so easy on hard, so I hoped for some good loot afterwards. I wasn't disappointed. He dropped some decent gear for my level.

Yesterday I killed two more dragons. I'm lvl 18 now and I'm right before " What Pride Had Wrought " quest.

Abyssal High Dragon from Western Approach was lvl 14. Gear was sh!t, literally. There was no good loot. Only items for level 10-12 character.

I decided to kill Vinsomer (lvl 19) from Storm Coast and guess what? Loot was sh!t. Again. Dragon was lvl 19 and he dropped items for lvl 12 character? How and why? Really, what on earth is wrong with drop system?

Is this how loot suppose to work or my game is somehow bugged? The next thing I know The Highland Ravager will drop some low level items, too...

[berelinde]

How did you know about the Highland Ravager?

 

The loot you get from killing dragons is secondary to the crafting materials. You're never going to find gear as good as what you craft yourself, and the "harder" dragons drop a lot more crafting materials than the lower level dragons. Me, I wish the dragons had more schematics. The RNG is terrible. I'd much rather have the low level dragons drop a full set of Tier 2 schematics and have the high level dragons drop Tier 3 schematics.

 

Honestly, though, the dragon levels are kinda... off. At least I found them to be so. The dragons you can access early, the Fereldan Frostback and the Crestwood dragon, are about on part with each other. I found the Highland Ravager to be easier than either of the other dragons in the Emprise. The last time I decided to take on the Emerald Graves dragon, I forgot to look her up first and I mistakenly thought she was an electricity dragon, so I geared up with frost staves. Oops.

[Ashii6]

I was just guessing about low level loot from Highland Ravager based on my experience with dragons. I didn't kill him yet.
My main problem is that 19 lvl dragon drops 12 level loot. I would expect something like that from a normal elite, but from 19 lvl dragon? I was so suprised that I was thinking about reloading my save and killing Vinsomer again. But then I just gave up. Loot contained some good crafting materials, but those materials are useless without schematics, which I have only for low level characters.
I have no luck whatsoever with schematics and gear. Shops have nothing ( even with short list perk ), so this is why I hoped for some good loot from dragons.

[Bigdawg13]

I have the same complaint.  The epic loot you get is always very low level.  One of many reasons why crafted gear is always better.

[jhood_shsu]

not sure if its level or when you kill them, but the first few dragons you kill generally give crap (low level gear and few crafting materials) but after the 4th or 5th dragon you start getting more crafting materials.  Keep killing them and you'll eventually get all of the dragon bone, dragon skin, and dragon webbing you need to make your party a well oiled killing machine.

[Ashii6]

I'm not sure if I want to waste dragon crafting materials on crappy low-level schematics, but maybe I'll get lucky later. Looks like I'll go to hunt a dragon again. I hope it'll drop some good schematic this time.

[PapaCharlie9]

Vinsomer is the textbook example of the overall loot leveling problem for dragons.The only way to get the Master Dragon-Slaying rune, a critical rune for going after higher level dragons while underlevelled (like L12), is to beat Vinsomer, but only level 16 or higher characters, assuming no speedrun glitching, can access Dragon Island, because of the Red Water quest that has to be completed first. The quest is behind an unpickable locked door that only opens at level 16 + war table operation.

 

It would make more sense to have that schematic on either the Abyssal or the Stormrider. Both require additional quests + war table missions to access, so they still aren't easy. Just lower level where the rune is more useful.

 

And while we're at it, put more poison spiders in the "Tier 2" zones. It's silly to have most of the materials you need for the Master rune in a Tier 3 zone (Hissing Wastes). If you can get to the Hissing Wastes, you don't need the rune anymore.

[Digger1967]

Normally I wouldn't be bothered with this issue, but since shops don't have anything good in stock ( Even with perks ), this really just makes me wanna... *disgusted noise*

Okay, so few days ago I killed my first dragon, in hinterlands, obviously. I was lvl 15 and he was lvl 12. Either way, the fight wasn't so easy on hard, so I hoped for some good loot afterwards. I wasn't disappointed. He dropped some decent gear for my level.

Yesterday I killed two more dragons. I'm lvl 18 now and I'm right before " What Pride Had Wrought " quest.

Abyssal High Dragon from Western Approach was lvl 14. Gear was sh!t, literally. There was no good loot. Only items for level 10-12 character.

I decided to kill Vinsomer (lvl 19) from Storm Coast and guess what? Loot was sh!t. Again. Dragon was lvl 19 and he dropped items for lvl 12 character? How and why? Really, what on earth is wrong with drop system?

Is this how loot suppose to work or my game is somehow bugged? The next thing I know The Highland Ravager will drop some low level items, too...

 

If you go sword and shield warrior the sword Caliban held by the dragon Kaltenzahn in Emprise Du Lion is pretty decent for a one handed weapon, something better than you can normally craft yourself.

 

Vinsomers loot is a huge dissapointment considering how incredbily difficult it is to take him down - he's probably one of the toughest single opponents in the game.  But really as someone else mentioned the loot dropped by the dragons really isn't so great but Dragon Bone and Dragon hide makes great crafting materials.

 

The Greater Mystral in the Emerald graves has the Helm of the Inquistor which is pretty cool, and the Sandy Howler has some great mage robes if you happen to have an elf inquistor, but normally doesn't do me a lot of good since I rarely if every play elves.  The body shape frankly reminds me entirely too much of someone who's been starved nearly to death.

 

Normally for me I end up selling about 90% or more of what the dragon drops and using it to buy schematics.

[Ashii6]

Well, looks like dragons are only good for crafting materials, not dropping gear itself. Shame... Considering how tough some battles are.

@Digger1967: I don't play as elves, only humans, but I could use some better gear for Solas, tho. I'll check Sandy Howler, thanks.

@PapaCharlie9: I was thinking if I should check Hissing Wastes next, but after your post I'll just do it.

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

 

[swk3000]

The biggest draw to the Dragon fights is the materials they drop. I don't recommend wasting them on tier 2 schematics, though. Use them once you get some tier 3 schematics.

[Forsythia77]

Well, looks like dragons are only good for crafting materials, not dropping gear itself. Shame... Considering how tough some battles are.

@Digger1967: I don't play as elves, only humans, but I could use some better gear for Solas, tho. I'll check Sandy Howler, thanks.

@PapaCharlie9: I was thinking if I should check Hissing Wastes next, but after your post I'll just do it.

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

 

 

You can go to the dog merchant Betyar in the Hissing Wastes and buy tier 3 schematics if you have the money - He isn't cheap.  As soon as I get to Skyhold this is what I do.  They are better than any armor you get from a dragon.  I will say, I got one set of armor from a dragon that had the best heavy armor arms in my last PT.  I've never gotten them before, and I've never found or been able to purchase them at a vendor.  But it was just luck.  The armor was good for a time but the look of the pauldrons was just the best.

[berelinde]

^^ True, about the dog merchant. There are some pretty tough enemies in the Hissing Wastes, but if you avoid the Venatori and Red Templars, you should be able to manage it. Just have a good idea where you're going before you set out, and consider using your mount to navigate. You'll be able to outrun a lot of the local fauna that way.

[caradoc2000]

Also, the various tombs in Hissing Wastes have tier 3 weapon schematics.

[PapaCharlie9]

The Canyon market in the Hissing Waste is great if you want a specific/best schematic and have the Short List Perk. Personally, I do all my Tier 3 schematic "shopping" in Veleska's Watch. Other people seem to prefer Suledin's Cradle, but minute for minute, I think Velaska's is the more efficient place to farm.

[Forsythia77]

The issue with Veleska's Watch is that you have to make your way through level 16 red Templars to get there when you are a level 10 or 11 which is rough.  A lot of the HW enemies can be easily avoided since it is so wide open - you can see the Venatori and Templars and skirt around them.  You can take on one level 16 Wyvern and not get entirely murderized.  EdL is the opposite.  I'm not saying it is impossible since lots of people do it, but it is more of a pain in the arse if you aren't in the mood for a fight and you just want to ninja in to get the goods.   In the HW, I can usually make my way over to the camp by the canyon, establish it and then visit Betyar w/o running into any enemies.  You can also make your way into some of the tombs of Fariel w/minimal enemy fights, too.

[berelinde]

The Canyon market in the Hissing Waste is great if you want a specific/best schematic and have the Short List Perk. Personally, I do all my Tier 3 schematic "shopping" in Veleska's Watch. Other people seem to prefer Suledin's Cradle, but minute for minute, I think Velaska's is the more efficient place to farm.

I love Valeska's watch... but if I go there before I'm ready (usually around level 14), the hurlock alphas absolutely maul me, and you really have to close at least one Fade rift before you can reach it. But hey, it's also really close to the little hollow where you pick up the Sulevin Blade quest, so two birds, one stone.

[Ashii6]

Okay, dog merchant really had something good. I've wasted all my money on schematics, but it was totally worth it

[Digger1967]

Well, looks like dragons are only good for crafting materials, not dropping gear itself. Shame... Considering how tough some battles are.

@Digger1967: I don't play as elves, only humans, but I could use some better gear for Solas, tho. I'll check Sandy Howler, thanks.

@PapaCharlie9: I was thinking if I should check Hissing Wastes next, but after your post I'll just do it.

Thanks for all the answers, guys.

 

 

The Howler is a fire breather and susceptible to cold damage, also she's a hopper.  She dances around, a lot.. so always good to have your warriors equipped with Bull rush and lunge and slash for some extra mobility.

 

If your playing a warrior yourself, for dragon hunting I highly recommend the combat roll from the battlemaster tree for dragon hunting, with the upgraded version it allows you to shrug off the debilitating effects of shock or cold, it's great for getting out of the way of their breath weapon or their normally well telegraphed leg swipes, and it allows you to close the distance when they move a lot easier while avoiding a lot of damage.

 

Shield bash upgrade is also fantastic against the dragons that can generate guard, a couple of good bashes will normally take down their guard so you can start doing some real damage.

[Digger1967]

I love Valeska's watch... but if I go there before I'm ready (usually around level 14), the hurlock alphas absolutely maul me, and you really have to close at least one Fade rift before you can reach it. But hey, it's also really close to the little hollow where you pick up the Sulevin Blade quest, so two birds, one stone.

 

Not a big fan of Valeski's watch, the first part is ok but when you go to the lower level I have a devil of a time not getting knocked into or running into one of the many holes in the floor which is instant death.. lol.

 

That section of canyon between the watch and the encampment where you find the note necessary to open the Sylvian blade quest though is a fantastic source of Silverite and there is an Everite deposit there inside the cave as well, which is great for crafting.

 

I thought the Winter's Breath shield looked pretty cool till I read the description closely and realized it had beserk as an attritbute..  a small increase in damage dealt for all attacks doing an extra 200% to you seemed like a pretty bad trade off to me personally, so it always gets sold.

 

As for me I generally buy the mage schematic perk as early as I can in the game, even if I'm not playing a mage.  The masterwork witch staff schematic is worth it's weight in gold, even with level 1 metals as crafting materials it allows your mages to do a lot more damage than anything you can find otherwise for quite a while.  So I get all of the agents I can that fall under the Forces domain, buy underworld knowledge with my first perk and usually the schematics for my character class second, with mage schematics being my third.  Frankly the schematics I get that way are better than anything found on Tier one behind one of the deft hands doors anyway, and if I really want i can always go back and pickup that stuff later.

[PapaCharlie9]

@PapaCharlie9: I was thinking if I should check Hissing Wastes next, but after your post I'll just do it.


 

Er, which post? The one where I rank Sandy Howler as the most difficult dragon to fight?

 

http://forum.bioware...-by-difficulty/

[Digger1967]

Er, which post? The one where I rank Sandy Howler as the most difficult dragon to fight?

 

http://forum.bioware...-by-difficulty/

 

Actually as dragon fights go I didn't find the Howler to be that bad overall, I had a much more difficult time with Vinsomer.. could just be me of course.  I think either that one or Kaltenzahn usually ends up being the toughest of the dragons to take down.  

[PapaCharlie9]

The issue with Veleska's Watch is that you have to make your way through level 16 red Templars to get there when you are a level 10 or 11 which is rough.  A lot of the HW enemies can be easily avoided since it is so wide open - you can see the Venatori and Templars and skirt around them.  You can take on one level 16 Wyvern and not get entirely murderized.  EdL is the opposite.  I'm not saying it is impossible since lots of people do it, but it is more of a pain in the arse if you aren't in the mood for a fight and you just want to ninja in to get the goods.   In the HW, I can usually make my way over to the camp by the canyon, establish it and then visit Betyar w/o running into any enemies.  You can also make your way into some of the tombs of Fariel w/minimal enemy fights, too.

 
 

I love Valeska's watch... but if I go there before I'm ready (usually around level 14), the hurlock alphas absolutely maul me, and you really have to close at least one Fade rift before you can reach it. But hey, it's also really close to the little hollow where you pick up the Sulevin Blade quest, so two birds, one stone.

 
 
All good points. Pain in the arse? I get that, but I actually enjoy fighting my way up the traditional path to Drakon's Point camp, close the two rifts, clear the darkspawn and then go farming. Fighting all those enemies makes up for some of the tedium of farming, I guess. 

 
But if you want a ninja option, it is possible to get to Veleska's Watch with almost no fighting, mostly by just running past the enemy encampments, similar to HW. It's not necessary to close either of the rifts near Drakon's point, either. Both can be snuck (sneaked?) past. I've done all of the above. Going solo as a mage with Fade Step helped alot. A rogue with Stealth could probably also pull it off, but I haven't tried that. With a good mount you could also ride past all but the tunnel section.

 

Capturing the Drakon's Point camp is required, however, since you need the little bridges to get to Veleska's. That's why I said "almost" and "mostly".

 

Once you farm and gear up to T3, the rest of the bad guys are still there for you to go back and wipe out.
 
Just for the sake of fun facts, not as a recommendation for normal play, it is possible to go straight from the starting point in EdL to capping the flag in Suledin keep without fighting a single enemy, using speedrun glitches. Video below, starts at 2:19:00 (out of a 3:43:54 completion of the main quest on nightmare). 2:22:40 is the first glitch. Flag capped at 2:28, so only 9 minutes to "clear" EpL.

https://youtu.be/XUZ9OOF9KYw?t=2h19m

 

But that's not exactly pain free -- I've tried some of those jumps and clips and they can be very frustrating.

[Whelp]

The biggest draw to the Dragon fights is the materials they drop. I don't recommend wasting them on tier 2 schematics, though. Use them once you get some tier 3 schematics.

 

This is the whole point of fighting dragons. If you kill all dragons in the game, you can make 3-4 weapons, and 1-2 armors (more if you make light armors) and a crapload of runes.

 

But yeah, don't waste them on tier 2 schematics. Grab the weapon schematics from the hissing wastes tombs and the armor ones from the merchant there first.

[PapaCharlie9]

This is the whole point of fighting dragons. If you kill all dragons in the game, you can make 3-4 weapons, and 1-2 armors (more if you make light armors) and a crapload of runes.

 

Emphasis added by me.

 

Given the scarcity and value of the materials, this is the sensible approach, but it is also points up how poorly dragons are integrated into character levelling and zone exploration. On one hand, the big payoff is only at the end, when you've killed most or all of the dragons. On the other hand, the dragons seem to be rigged to be hunted in order, of either level or zone opening. By the time you are able to take on the L19 dragons or higher, you don't really need the materials anymore, undermining the value of the payoff (barring the DLC -- haven't played it myself, no spoilers -- I hear it is tough on NM). You get nothing for most of the game and then something that isn't as valuable as it was back when you were level 12.

 

I'd rather see gradual rewards spread out over the course of hunting the ten. It probably would have been better to tier the dragon materials. Tier 2 for the first 3 (by level), tier 3 for the next 3, and tier 4 for the last four, and each dragon should drop enough material for one full set of armor and one weapon.

[Tharkun]

Since the Black Emporium is now out it is now possible to buy Dragon crafting materials there.  This both helps and hurts the dragon loot issue.  Though I know that my next play through will be drastically different now.