347 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabooooom]

Pointing out the lack of evidence to support the fact the reaper's are capable of intergalactic travel is hardly a fanfic.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

And actually, your statement is demonstrably false anyways, logical fallacies aside. The codex demonstrates they ARE capable of intergalactic travel. They can travel 30 ly/day without refueling, without discharging, and they are immortal. A 230 year journey would be nothing to them in a cycle that lasts 50,000 years.

[Drone223]

*snip*

No I'm pointing out how this is something that can't be rushed because there is really no room for error for a project such as this. It'll require everything that can maximize it success and it'll be rather demanding to get the necessary things to do so. What your suggesting is that the entire projects success will ride on one ship because that's just begging for something to go wrong. Any sane person would build multiple ships because if something were to happen to one of the ships then there still be others.

[dreamgazer]

If we can get there, they can get here.

If we can get there, nearly a billion years of cycles could have gotten there, too.

Nobody came back? No other ark projects? Who all's there?

[Han Shot First]

If we can get there, they can get here.

If we can get there, nearly a billion years of cycles could have gotten there, too.

Nobody came back? No other ark projects? Who all's there?

 

The Reapers may have been there doing what they do best. They could reach both galaxies, whether or not they chose to.

 

Maybe that is why the colonists only encounter two space-faring alien species, despite the Milky Way seeming to be packed with space-faring species. Maybe the Andromedan cycle was more recent than the Prothean extinction.

 

Having the Reapers visit Andromeda would also provide one thing many view as necessary for the Mass Effect series: A mass effect relay system. It might have it's own relay network.

[Kabooooom]

No I'm pointing out how this is something that can't be rushed because there is really no room for error for a project such as this. It'll require everything that can maximize it success and it'll be rather demanding to get the necessary things to do so. What your suggesting is that the entire projects success will ride on one ship because that's just begging for something to go wrong. Any sane person would build multiple ships because if something were to happen to one of the ships then there still be others.

Judging by the recent twitter post, Bioware might go the wormhole route, making an extensive ark project to survive an intergalactic trip irrelevant.

I really hope they don't do that though. A wormhole, while likely physically a real object, would be even more convenient and contrived than an intergalactic relay set up by a prior race or an ark project. The ark would probably be the most interesting plot choice out of those.

[Vazgen]

You know, I'd actually prefer a wormhole. Contrived and convenient? Sure. But it won't require making up a secret project going on at the same time when Hackett throws "everyone who can hold a hammer" at the Crucible project. 

[Drone223]

You know, I'd actually prefer a wormhole. Contrived and convenient? Sure. But it won't require making up a secret project going on at the same time when Hackett throws "everyone who can hold a hammer" at the Crucible project. 

Both of the would be contrived to some degree and the series doesn't need another "lazarus project" like plot device.

[Wulfram]

What if it's an Asari/Salarian project that invited some humans along? That got underway before they committed to the Crucible?

[Vazgen]

Both of the would be contrived to some degree and the series doesn't need another "lazarus project" like plot device.

Lazarus project is unexplained space magic. Wormhole, while being extremely convenient, has some scientific plausibility. It'll be more akin to finding the location of Mu Relay in ME1. 

[Sion1138]

You know, I'd actually prefer a wormhole. Contrived and convenient? Sure. But it won't require making up a secret project going on at the same time when Hackett throws "everyone who can hold a hammer" at the Crucible project. 

 

It would be preferable, yes.

[Heimdall]

Again, I feel it's implausible in the context of how things work in Mass Effect. Relative to prior experience, not generally.

If it's a relatively small project, not comparable in scope to the Crucible, then it's absolutely acceptable.

The thing is, most of that "how things work in Mass Effect" that people are describing boils down to "Secret project gets revealed to Commander Shepard because plot". It's a silly argument.

As to the scale, I think people are severely underestimating the scale of the Crucible. We're talking about an incredibly advanced piece of technology (So advanced nobody actually understands what it does), THE SIZE OF THE CITADEL, if not larger, certainly far larger than anything previously constructed by the species of Mass Effect. And it's all cobbled together over a matter of months.

The Arkship concievably need be no larger than an existing Dreadnaught (They could even appropriate one and modify it, possibly), and it's construction would be done over a matter of years. The comparison holds no water.

[ZoliCs]

If we can get there, nearly a billion years of cycles could have gotten there, too.

I agree, just like how billion years of cycles defeated the Reapers...oh wait.

[Arl Raylen]

Reapers reaping Andromeda makes little sense. By the time they get a Citadel sized Mass Relay over there and connected it to the Milky Way, some kind of Synthetic Monster race would have developed and eaten them alive. Far more likely the Reapers built some sort of defensive array around the MW to keep **** out, then that they went into intergalactic space only to get eaten by something scarier than them. Especially since their whole goal was to preserve the races they "saved."

 

I don't think people realize what kinds of scale we're talking about here. There's little chance anybody with current ME tech could get to Andromeda conventionally beyond chugging along over hundreds of thousands of years, possibly a million or more.

 

Wormhole theory, or some other contrived way of getting there, sounds far more likely. We won't be going because we want to...somebody there is going to invite us.

[Kabooooom]

I don't think people realize what kinds of scale we're talking about here. There's little chance anybody with current ME tech could get to Andromeda conventionally beyond chugging along over hundreds of thousands of years, possibly a million or more.

.

Incorrect, actually. If you ignore the drive discharge problem, current Mass Effect level FTL tech at 12 lightyears/day would reach Andromeda in 570 years.

The Reapers, who neither need to discharge nor refuel and travel at 30 lightyears/day would reach Andromeda in 230 years.

If you actually do the math, those are the numbers involved. Of course, current mass effect FTL tech prevents the journey because of drive discharge frying the crew inside due to insufficient nearby star systems to find a place to discharge at.

The Reapers dont have that problem.

[dreamgazer]

I agree, just like how billion years of cycles defeated the Reapers...oh wait.

If we're capable of making that journey, then billions of years of cycles are capable of making that journey, if not more so.

[dreamgazer]

The Reapers may have been there doing what they do best. They could reach both galaxies, whether or not they chose to.
 
Maybe that is why the colonists only encounter two space-faring alien species, despite the Milky Way seeming to be packed with space-faring species. Maybe the Andromedan cycle was more recent than the Prothean extinction.
 
Having the Reapers visit Andromeda would also provide one thing many view as necessary for the Mass Effect series: A mass effect relay system. It might have it's own relay network.

Yeah, I thought about that as an answer to the relay question myself. It'd be the only way to really "control" Andromeda to a point where anything's plausible, because without it they'd have billions of years of unchecked evolution and scientific advancement that somehow didn't lead them towards exploring the Milky Way.

[ElitePinecone]

If we can get there, nearly a billion years of cycles could have gotten there, too.

 

No, there's a couple of crucial differences between our cycle and every other cycle.

 

Firstly, the Protheans changed the Keepers' signalling so that they wouldn't open the Citadel relay and let the Reapers in for a surprise attack. In every other cycle the Reapers took control of galactic transportation and communication on day one of the war, wiped out the galactic leadership and seized control of all the records on the Citadel. I think it would be exceedingly difficult to coordinate an ark project without the ability to transfer people and materials across the galaxy quickly. Vigil in ME1 says in the Protheans' cycle, individual star systems were cut off from one another. It's actually kinda a miracle that so many of the cycles were able to start work on the Crucible, given how dispersed their resources and militaries would've been. 

 

The other thing is that our cycle was the first time that the galaxy killed the Reapers' vanguard and had advance warning of the Reapers as a galactic threat to all life that would not accept surrender. We had knowledge and time that none of the others had.

 

Remember that when every other cycle was confronted with the Reapers (in their individual systems, because their leadership was already dead) they had no idea what the Reapers wanted or where the war would end. Why would anybody plan for an idea as far-fetched as leaving the galaxy if the easier solution was to run and hide within the Milky Way? 99% of it was totally unexplored, as people keep screaming about here.

 

An ark to Andromeda requires an understanding that *nowhere* in the Milky Way was safe from the Reapers, that they would never stop until all advanced life was exterminated, and that there was no possibility of surrender or waiting them out. Nobody else knew that, except the current cycle - and even if they did, they would've had no time to prepare before being invaded en masse. We understood - from the Protheans - that the only way to escape the Reapers with any degree of certainty would be to leave the galaxy entirely.

[Nitrocuban]

Like it or not, an ancient alien device opening a wormhole to Andromeda fits perfectly into the Mass Effect world that is full of convenient space magic powered plot devices.

[ZoliCs]

No, there's a couple of crucial differences between our cycle and every other cycle.

 

Firstly, the Protheans changed the Keepers' signalling so that they wouldn't open the Citadel relay and let the Reapers in for a surprise attack. In every other cycle the Reapers took control of galactic transportation and communication on day one of the war, wiped out the galactic leadership and seized control of all the records on the Citadel. I think it would be exceedingly difficult to coordinate an ark project without the ability to transfer people and materials across the galaxy quickly. Vigil in ME1 says in the Protheans' cycle, individual star systems were cut off from one another. It's actually kinda a miracle that so many of the cycles were able to start work on the Crucible, given how dispersed their resources and militaries would've been. 

 

The other thing is that our cycle was the first time that the galaxy killed the Reapers' vanguard and had advance warning of the Reapers as a galactic threat to all life that would not accept surrender. We had knowledge and time that none of the others had.

 

Remember that when every other cycle was confronted with the Reapers (in their individual systems, because their leadership was already dead) they had no idea what the Reapers wanted or where the war would end. Why would anybody plan for an idea as far-fetched as leaving the galaxy if the easier solution was to run and hide within the Milky Way? 99% of it was totally unexplored, as people keep screaming about here.

 

An ark to Andromeda requires an understanding that *nowhere* in the Milky Way was safe from the Reapers, that they would never stop until all advanced life was exterminated, and that there was no possibility of surrender or waiting them out. Nobody else knew that, except the current cycle - and even if they did, they would've had no time to prepare before being invaded en masse. We understood - from the Protheans - that the only way to escape the Reapers with any degree of certainty would be to leave the galaxy entirely.

Why can't I like this twice?

[dreamgazer]

No, there's a couple of crucial differences between our cycle and every other cycle.
 
Firstly, the Protheans changed the Keepers' signalling so that they wouldn't open the Citadel relay and let the Reapers in for a surprise attack. In every other cycle the Reapers took control of galactic transportation and communication on day one of the war, wiped out the galactic leadership and seized control of all the records on the Citadel. I think it would be exceedingly difficult to coordinate an ark project without the ability to transfer people and materials across the galaxy quickly. Vigil in ME1 says in the Protheans' cycle, individual star systems were cut off from one another. It's actually kinda a miracle that so many of the cycles were able to start work on the Crucible, given how dispersed their resources and militaries would've been. 
 
The other thing is that our cycle was the first time that the galaxy killed the Reapers' vanguard and had advance warning of the Reapers as a galactic threat to all life that would not accept surrender. We had knowledge and time that none of the others had.
 
Remember that when every other cycle was confronted with the Reapers (in their individual systems, because their leadership was already dead) they had no idea what the Reapers wanted or where the war would end. Why would anybody plan for an idea as far-fetched as leaving the galaxy if the easier solution was to run and hide within the Milky Way? 99% of it was totally unexplored, as people keep screaming about here.
 
An ark to Andromeda requires an understanding that *nowhere* in the Milky Way was safe from the Reapers, that they would never stop until all advanced life was exterminated, and that there was no possibility of surrender or waiting them out. Nobody else knew that, except the current cycle - and even if they did, they would've had no time to prepare before being invaded en masse. We understood - from the Protheans - that the only way to escape the Reapers with any degree of certainty would be to leave the galaxy entirely.

None of this addresses the simple concept of space exploration and hubris, or any number of other concerns that could lead to recolonization. If we're capable of getting there, then the collective "they" could get there, too. You're opening a door with this intergalactic travel that ANYBODY could walk through, especially equally advanced (or slightly more advanced) civilizations from the past.

A billion years of cycles and this mess of one's the first?

[ElitePinecone]

None of this addresses the simple concept of space exploration and hubris, or any number of other concerns that could lead to recolonization. If we're capable of getting there, then the collective "they" could get there, too. You're opening a door with this intergalactic travel that ANYBODY could walk through, especially equally advanced (or slightly more advanced) civilizations from the past.

A billion years of cycles and this mess of one's the first?

 

Capability isn't the same as intent, though. I'm saying that just because people could go to Andromeda, it doesn't mean that they would - not without a proper reason. I'm arguing that we're literally the first cycle to recognise that there is a good reason to get out of our galaxy, or at least start making preparations to that effect. For all the others, it was far too late by the time they realised the threat of the Reapers was to all advanced galactic life - if they realised it at all.

 

Why would any cycle spend hundreds of years to go to Andromeda if they didn't have to? Nothing could conceivably threaten the entire galaxy in the 50,000 year timespan between Reaper harvests. Escaping even a massive war between empires would be as simple as fleeing into another part of the Milky Way. Space exploration seems like a poor motivation when apparently so much of the Milky Way remains unexplored, even by the advanced stage of our own cycle during the ME trilogy.

 

And really, the timeframe is irrelevant - cycles have worked pretty much the same way for a billion years, except for the Protheans' and ours. Nobody else would've even thought about going to Andromeda, because they would've believed it was completely unnecessary. If any of them had a chance to develop just a little more, perhaps they would've attempted the journey out of hubris, as you say - but none of them did, because becoming technologically advanced meant an immediate attack by the Reapers and total extinction. 

[dreamgazer]

Why can't I like this twice?

Not sure why you'd want to. It's a narrow justification of why this cycle is somehow extra-speshulz when they really aren't. If it's as easy as just hopping in some modified craft and making the road-trip by throwing resources at an idea for a few years, then literally anyone else could do it. Including the Protheans. Including the Reapers.

Unless, of course, this ark project gets a wormhole served to them on a silver platter, which will make the contrived discovery of the Crucible look like brilliant writing in comparison.

[dogstar12]

Do not forget the Leviathans they could have built a device to travel to other galaxies to get more tribute before the reapers nuked them    

[ZoliCs]

If defeating the Reapers doesn't make this cycle special I don't know what does...

[ZoliCs]

If it's as easy as just hopping in some modified craft and making the road-trip by throwing resources at an idea for a few years, then literally anyone else could do it. Including the Protheans. Including the Reapers.

You are still ignoring the fact that it would probably require Reaper tech, and even if someone could, why would they? 99% of the Milky Way is still up for grab.