347 réponses à ce sujet

[ZoliCs]

No, it's not. 

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[Hanako Ikezawa]

An Ark is at least explainable, despite your attempts to claim otherwise.

Again, no it's not. Not with the technology and time they have at the time of the Reaper War. 

Years or decades after the war, then it is explainable. 

[ZoliCs]

Again, no it's not. Not with the technology and time they have at the time of the Reaper War. 

Years or decades after the war, then it is explainable. 

 

At this point we'll just have to agree to disagree. You are welcome to have your opinion, just don't be some melodramatic about it or present it as fact.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

At this point we'll just have to agree to disagree. You are welcome to have your opinion, just don't be some melodramatic about it or present it as fact.

I will try to not present it as fact as long as the other side does as well. 

As for not being melodramatic, I only promise to try. If this is real, one of my favorite franchises has been ruined/damaged. 

[dreamgazer]

Not necessarily, Bryson had bits of Sovereign in his lab to no ill effect, and there are ways to study it without being exposed to indoctrination.  The Turians were able to reproduce the Thanix cannon in a shorter period, which might not have been as powerful as powerful as the Reapers themselves, but they don't need it to be as effective as the Reapers.  They just need to understand the power source and whatever mechanism they use to avoid the drive discharge issue.

No human or alien need come into direct contact with Reaper tech as robotics are always an option. Even if that isn't the route the Turians went, they did find a means of reverse engineering Reaper technology without the project being foiled by Reaper indoctrination. The means is already there...whatever that means is. Shepard even uses some reverse engineered Reaper technology in Mass Effect 3, though this comes in the form of stat bonuses. He obtains this (optional) by using the Shadow Broker intel terminal to deploy remote drones to study the remains of a Reaper destroyer. So using robots to study Reaper tech has some precedent in the lore.

Guys, are we really going to keep equating Sovereign's fingernail and the basics of a cannon to the energy of a functioning Reaper core? If that's the case, and you're cool with that parallel, then I'm going to have to bow out of the conversation. The series has profusely emphasized the dangers of messing around with Reaper tech, and that's an incredibly substantial amount of powerful Reaper tech to be firing off, monitoring, and dissecting while the Reapers are still alive and well, precautions taken or not.

[ZoliCs]

I will try to not present it as fact as long as the other side does as well.

I'm just trying to promote to keep an open mind. Intergalactic travel based on the lore is just as likely to be possible as not. It's pretty much open to interpretation, because most of it is not outright stated or comes from second hand information.

 

As for not being melodramatic, I only promise to try. If this is real, one of my favorite franchises has been ruined/damaged. 

Well it's sad that you feel that way, but you can always just go back and replay the trilogy and ignore the new games that you don't like since ME:N won't have any impact on it. Which is another advantage to the Ark theory tbh.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Guys, are we really going to keep equating Sovereign's fingernail and the basics of a cannon to the energy of a functioning Reaper core? If that's the case, and you're cool with that parallel, then I'm going to have to bow out of the conversation. The series has profusely emphasized the dangers of messing around with Reaper tech, and that's an incredibly substantial amount of powerful Reaper tech to be firing off, monitoring, and dissecting while the Reapers are still alive and well, precautions taken or not.

Especially since even Sovereign's 'fingernail' was constantly shielded and those near it had continuous psychological evaluations. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm just trying to promote to keep an open mind. Intergalactic travel based on the lore is just as likely to be possible as not. It's pretty much open to interpretation, because most of it is not outright stated or comes from second hand information.

 

Well it's sad that you feel that way, but you can always just go back and replay the trilogy and ignore the new games that you don't like since ME:N won't have any impact on it. Which is another advantage to the Ark theory tbh.

As I've said many times, I have no problem with intergalactic travel, since I think the Reapers go to other galaxies in our local galactic group to harvest them in the 50,000 years they aren't here. The issue comes with our cycle suddenly having the technology. If this game had them leave after the events of the Shepard Trilogy, I'd have no issue with it since either 1)They have plenty of time and dead Reapers to reverse-engineer such technology or 2) They have the Reapers there as allies to help them crack the problems involved. 

[ZoliCs]

Well the problem with leaving after the ME3 is that it would have to address the endings. Which would defeat one of the main purpose of the Ark theory.

[Arl Raylen]

As I've said many times, I have no problem with intergalactic travel, since I think the Reapers go to other galaxies in our local galactic group to harvest them in the 50,000 years they aren't here. The issue comes with our cycle suddenly having the technology. If this game had them leave after the events of the Shepard Trilogy, I'd have no issue with it since either 1)They have plenty of time and dead Reapers to reverse-engineer such technology or 2) They have the Reapers there as allies to help them crack the problems involved. 

 

Doing basic math, it would take Reapers about 230 years to travel to Andromeda going at 30 light years a day, assuming they have unlimited fuel. No way anyone with current ME Tech is getting there conventionally unless ME:N takes place centuries after ME3. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well the problem with leaving after the ME3 is that it would have to address the endings. Which would defeat one of the main purpose of the Ark theory.

Well, that doesn't bug me at all since I'm not a supporter of that theory. And it wouldn't really matter much since if in a different galaxy they'd just have to address it a few times in conversations. 

[ZoliCs]

Well, that doesn't bug me at all since I'm not a supporter of that theory.

I know, but as the saying goes if something bad is happening there better be a reason for it, no?

[Han Shot First]

Guys, are we really going to keep equating Sovereign's fingernail and the basics of a cannon to the energy of a functioning Reaper core? If that's the case, and you're cool with that parallel, then I'm going to have to bow out of the conversation. The series has profusely emphasized the dangers of messing around with Reaper tech, and that's an incredibly substantial amount of powerful Reaper tech to be firing off, monitoring, and dissecting while the Reapers are still alive and well, precautions taken or not.

 

That the core would be more dangerous rests on the assumption that it would be more capable of indoctrination than other parts of a Reaper. No such distinction however is ever made between various Reaper parts in the lore. The lore isn't even clear on how indoctrination is achieved. The games describe it as some sort of signal originating from who knows where, and one of the books uses nanobots. In any case, no organics need to come in contact with it. As I stated earlier, there is precedent in the lore for using robots to study Reaper tech. Whether or not the Turians used the same means as the Shadow Broker network, they did use some method of successfully handling Reaper technology. If it can be done once, it can be done again.

 

The dangers of Reaper tech just doesn't work as an argument against using it for an ark when we've already had examples of Reaper tech reverse engineered, no matter how often it is asserted in this thread that a core would have greater indoctrination powers or be impossible to reverse engineer. Both of those are assumptions, not facts. Having said that it is also an assumption that the core could be reverse engineered in time. The truth is there is plenty of room for the writers of ME: Next to render either side of that argument correct without trampling over previously established canon.

 

Those who argue against the ark theory as being a plausible plot for the next game however are going to need an argument that doesn't rest on assumptions. They are also going to need a better argument as to why it requires more suspension of disbelief than achieving FTL based on 50,000 year old ruins, Shepard's corpse surviving atmospheric reentry, or the Lazarus Project. If I can suspend disbelief for all of those, I can certainly do the same for the galaxy rolling out a new drive core based on Reaper designs.

[camphor]

I know, but as the saying goes if something bad is happening there better be a reason for it, no?

What? No bad things happen all the time for no reason and no cause but maybe i missed your point

[Heimdall]

Guys, are we really going to keep equating Sovereign's fingernail and the basics of a cannon to the energy of a functioning Reaper core? If that's the case, and you're cool with that parallel, then I'm going to have to bow out of the conversation. The series has profusely emphasized the dangers of messing around with Reaper tech, and that's an incredibly substantial amount of powerful Reaper tech to be firing off, monitoring, and dissecting while the Reapers are still alive and well, precautions taken or not.

The series has also emphasized the advantage and advances that come from studying Reaper Tech.  If you're going to pretend we actually know how Reaper Indoctrination works then i suppose I should bow out as well.  There's also the codex entry that describes studying the Human-Reaper heart using drones and a rotating staff that never gets too close.

 

The fact of the matter is, people have studied Reaper technology successful and made real advances.  The core, separated from the rest of the Reaper, may not even give off indoctrination on its own.  Or maybe the individual pieces of Sovereign lost the capability to produce the indoctrination signal when the Reaper was shattered.  Or maybe an inert core is enough for them to glean what they need.  I don't know, but studying Reaper tech has been well established as feasible and productive.  Dangerous, yes, but doable.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I know, but as the saying goes if something bad is happening there better be a reason for it, no?

I have never heard that expression before. Can you explain it please? 

[ZoliCs]

I have never heard that expression before. Can you explain it please? 

Well it kinda explains itself, but I guess I can give some examples.

 

Like if one of your relatives die fighting for their country is better than if (s)he dies because so maniac decided to shoot up a public place.

Or something more relevant, it's better to abandon the Milky Way because Bioware didn't want to canonize an ending so it was impossible to stay than leaving the Milky Way for the lulz and a game there is a possiblity.

[ElitePinecone]

Doing basic math, it would take Reapers about 230 years to travel to Andromeda going at 30 light years a day, assuming they have unlimited fuel. No way anyone with current ME Tech is getting there conventionally unless ME:N takes place centuries after ME3. 

 

It's worth pointing out here that the same people who said the leak is accurate have also said they heard that the game does, in fact, take place centuries after ME3.

 

(The first line of the leak, after all, says that it takes place "far removed by time and space from Commander Shepard’s heroic acts")

[Vortex13]

I was thinking about the logistics of traveling to Andromeda and was wondering if using an eezo rich asteroid would be the way to go instead of trying to build an ark?

Relying on a ship runs into a bunch of problems with fuel, and drive core discharge, not to mention space and the feasibility of creating something from scratch during the Reaper invasion (if we assume said ark left sometime during ME 3).

 

Wouldn't it be more practical to use an eezo rich asteroid as your ark's structural foundation, fuel source, etc? Think something similar to Omega, albeit smaller in sheer size, with rockets strapped to it. As the asteroid travels and uses up its eezo stores the crew can use the free space to expand on the ship's infrastructure, adding new rooms, or storage areas. Also, the rocky exterior would allow for a safe discharge of built up static electricity away from personnel areas. 

[Kabooooom]

I was thinking about the logistics of traveling to Andromeda and was wondering if using an eezo rich asteroid would be the way to go instead of trying to build an ark?
Relying on a ship runs into a bunch of problems with fuel, and drive core discharge, not to mention space and the feasibility of creating something from scratch during the Reaper invasion (if we assume said ark left sometime during ME 3).

Wouldn't it be more practical to use an eezo rich asteroid as your ark's structural foundation, fuel source, etc? Think something similar to Omega, albeit smaller in sheer size, with rockets strapped to it. As the asteroid travels and uses up its eezo stores the crew can use the free space to expand on the ship's infrastructure, adding new rooms, or storage areas. Also, the rocky exterior would allow for a safe discharge of built up static electricity away from personnel areas.

As I understand it, drive discharge requires discharge into a magnetic field or direct grounding. That's why it can only be done on planets with their own electromagnetic field (typically gas or ice giants due to strong electromagnetic fields) but also on rocky planets with strong fields, or directly on rocky planets by landing and grounding the charge. The Citadel also has discharge stations for convenience. Discharging onto the body of an asteroid itself probably wouldn't work.

But I do like the idea of moving the fuel source with you. That's brilliant.

[timebean]

just chiming in here...

 

Haven't read through all the posts, so maybe someone thought of this already...but didn't the Batarians find a dead reaper long before the events of ME1 and hushed it up? It was in the Leviathan DLC (wasn't it?).  If so...wouldn't that give us ample time to study the reaper tech...ie, well in advance of the events int he game??

 

I guess my point is...it seems there is both ample time and plenty of reaper tech to make the Ark totally possible.

 

Also...the fact that the crucible, which was based on an ancient prothean blueprint (and NOTHING else), was also built in the few months during ME3.  The Ark seems totally plausible to me in that context. 

[timebean]

The series has also emphasized the advantage and advances that come from studying Reaper Tech.  If you're going to pretend we actually know how Reaper Indoctrination works then i suppose I should bow out as well.  There's also the codex entry that describes studying the Human-Reaper heart using drones and a rotating staff that never gets too close.

 

The fact of the matter is, people have studied Reaper technology successful and made real advances.  The core, separated from the rest of the Reaper, may not even give off indoctrination on its own.  Or maybe the individual pieces of Sovereign lost the capability to produce the indoctrination signal when the Reaper was shattered.  Or maybe an inert core is enough for them to glean what they need.  I don't know, but studying Reaper tech has been well established as feasible and productive.  Dangerous, yes, but doable.

.I agree. And also..isn't the citadel basically reaper tech?  And it did not indoctrinate anyone...did it?

[Tevinter Soldier]

As far as the lore goes there's no proof that they're capable of intergalactic travel, surely the catalyst would've brought it up that there carried out harvesting in other galaxies

 

there's no proof no but its not beyond possibility. as for the that creepy little avatar i've never trusted a word its said ever. Destroy For life.