86 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh dear. An argument about whether evolution is fact or fabrication. This is not going to end well, is it? 

[Farangbaa]

i just randomly said some number , it does not matter , it might be a 100,000,000 of years or billion of years..............simply it does not exist the mechanism for something like that.

But amoebas didn't turn into humans.

It took billions of years and countless other in between species before what once was a single celled organism 'turned into' a human.

Monkeys didn't turn into humans over night either. There are dozens, if not hundreds of in between species before what once was ape turned into a human.

And the mechanisms for this are well known and any introductionary book on evolution speaks of them. If you don't know them, you've probably never even touched a biology book, but preferred to ask someone with no clue about the matter.

[Farangbaa]

Oh dear. An argument about whether evolution is fact or fabrication. This is not going to end well, is it?

Not for the fundamentalist religious nutters.

[Steppenwolf]

Because they will develop different interests. We're supposedly sending them there to do what we want them to do. Them seeing us as strangers or even dictators is bad for us. That's what the second generation will think of us unless we avoid it somehow.

That would only be a concern if these colonies were just meant to establish homes for the rest of the Milky Way denizens to eventually come and claim. Societies change over time. That is unavoidable.
 

Well, evolution is just a theory.

 

i just randomly said some number , it does not matter , it might be a 100,000,000 of years or billion of years..............simply it does not exist the mechanism for something like that.

You're clearly entirely ignorant of the science so why do you think you know what is and is not possible in this regard?

[Belgrade_Phantom]

Well that theory was more something like a intelectual recreation of one curious amateur explorer.

Even Darwin personally did not get that theory too serious and as something questionless , but that theory show up in the time of industrial revolution and beggining of liberal capitalism and consumer society and in that society there was not a place for a God , Christian values or I do not know aliens , genetic engineering or any deeply philosophical debates and darwinism fits perfectly with a concept of neoliberal capitalism and that's why that theory became so popular and widespread.

Also from darwinism arised many sick theories and quasi sciencies like eugenics and the darwinism was even excuse to some people for massive crimes , genocides......etc .

But generally the fact is that things like a origins of human race , space, laws of space are things that we do not know much more about it then we do know.

And from Mass Effect series and SF in general I do expect to induce us on thinking and eventually to induce us on some philosophical debates and not just that blindly promote those what mainstream science or National Geographic claims.

[Steppenwolf]

Well that theory was more something like a intelectual recreation of one curious amateur explorer.

Dude, what?

Even Darwin personally did not get that theory too serious and as something questionless , but that theory show up in the time of industrial revolution and beggining of liberal capitalism and consumer society and in that society there was not a place for a God , Christian values or I do not know aliens , genetic engineering or any deeply philosophical debates and darwinism fits perfectly with a concept of neoliberal capitalism and that's why that theory became so popular and widespread.

Darwin is not the originator of the concept of evolution, so just drop that line of thinking. And the rest of this is nonsense.

Also from darwinism arised many sick theories and quasi sciencies like eugenics and the darwinism was even excuse to some people for massive crimes , genocides......etc .

Religion has been the justification of countless atrocities so this is just more nonsense.

But generally the fact is that things like a origins of human race , space, laws of space are things that we do not know much more about it then we do know.

We've made great strides in these regards. You need to educate yourself.

[Farangbaa]

Well that theory was more something like a intelectual recreation of one curious amateur explorer.

So? He turned out to be right.
 

Even Darwin personally did not get that theory too serious and as something questionless , but that theory show up in the time of industrial revolution and beggining of liberal capitalism and consumer society and in that society there was not a place for a God , Christian values or I do not know aliens , genetic engineering or any deeply philosophical debates and darwinism fits perfectly with a concept of neoliberal capitalism and that's why that theory became so popular and widespread.

Ah now we're getting somewhere. It's all about God.
 

Also from darwinism arised many sick theories and quasi sciencies like eugenics and the darwinism was even excuse to some people for massive crimes , genocides......etc .

And how does that disqualify the truth of the theory?

And, more importantly...why do you care? God endorses all these things, and more. Slavery, the oppression of women, homosexuals and non believers, and to top it all off, He loves genocide.. just to name a few.
 

But generally the fact is that things like a origins of human race , space, laws of space are things that we do not know much more about it then we do know.

What? We don't know more about it than we know?

LOL. Did you even read what you said here?
 

And from Mass Effect series and SF in general I do expect to induce us on thinking and eventually to induce us on some philosophical debates and not just that blindly promote those what mainstream science or National Geographic claims.

No, you want the game to only talk about stuff you believe in, and prefer they'd left actual science out of it.

Cuz Jesus.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not for the fundamentalist religious nutters.

One can be very religious but still respect science. Most famous scientists in human history were just that. 

For example with evolution there were many who saw it not as the product of chance but instead it following a set plan. 

 

Also, both sides shouldn't be insulting the other on here. It goes against the Site Rules. 

[Belgrade_Phantom]

Well there is no any evidence that Darwin was right and even he was a bit sceptical about that and If that theory of evolution was something questionless then would not call the theory and probably would called a bit different.

Far from that that darwinism is something questionless.

Also the "God" is much more serious and complex term then what atheists think , but you are obviouly theologically and spititually illiterate , I am moderately religous person and i believe in God but i do not think that God is physical entity and that is literaly old man with a white beard, but I truly believe that there is something above us and that really there is alot of that beyond our 5 senses.

And generally things are much different then how mainsteam science or media claims.

Like I said things like a origin of human race, space......etc are things that we much more do not know about then we do know.

and like i said i want the game which induce us on thinking , not to blindly promote what mainsteam science claims but also not to promote what church claims either.

For example Star Trek did that on good way in one episode of TNG series , Prometheus also did that on good way.........etc

[Farangbaa]

One can be very religious but still respect science. Most famous scientists in human history were just that. 
For example with evolution there were many who saw it not as the product of chance but instead it following a set plan. 
 
Also, both sides shouldn't be insulting the other on here. It goes against the Site Rules.

Those people have no idea how evolution works, clearly. It's not a random event produced by chance.

Mutations occur by chance, but the vast majority of them do nothing at all, or even kill the cell/organism (by causing cancer, for instance), only a select few are beneficial. Natural selection though is the opposite of random.

Don't confuse this for evolution having an end state or a plan, it doesn't. It has no direction, it's just mechanism at work to find out what works or doesn't.

What I'd advise people like you is to actually, for once, read a biology book instead of listening to your priests and such. Because they clearly haven't.

[Farangbaa]

Well there is no any evidence that Darwin was right and even he was a bit sceptical about that and If that theory of evolution was something questionless then would not call the theory and probably would called a bit different.

There is a mountain of evidence supporting Darwin's claims, in stark contrast to the existence of God.

Stop wasting my time.

[Krudus]

Its an interesting topic, and one i hope that they will adress somehow in the game, that the species in the end will diverge completely for their milky way counterparts unless some artificial theoretical steps are taken. Maybe there will be a plan to somehow return sooner or later to the milky way.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Those people have no idea how evolution works, clearly. It's not a random event produced by chance.

Mutations occur by chance, but the vast majority of them do nothing at all, or even kill the cell/organism (by causing cancer, for instance), only a select few are beneficial. Natural selection though is the opposite of random.

Don't confuse this for evolution having an end state or a plan, it doesn't. It has no direction, it's just mechanism at work to find out what works or doesn't.

What I'd advise people like you is to actually, for once, read a biology book instead of listening to your priests and such. Because they clearly haven't.

Evolution is fueled by natural selection

Natural selection is fueled by beneficial mutations

mutations occur by chance

Thank you for proving those scientists you insulted right.

 

Speaking of, I see you didn't notice the "Hey, let's not insult the other side" part of my post. Weren't you the one complaining how people did that in the DAI forums about some group or another a while ago? Seems a tad hypocritical if so. 

[Heimdall]

I really hope Belgrade is a troll.

Those people have no idea how evolution works, clearly. It's not a random event produced by chance.

Mutations occur by chance, but the vast majority of them do nothing at all, or even kill the cell/organism (by causing cancer, for instance), only a select few are beneficial. Natural selection though is the opposite of random.

Don't confuse this for evolution having an end state or a plan, it doesn't. It has no direction, it's just mechanism at work to find out what works or doesn't.

What I'd advise people like you is to actually, for once, read a biology book instead of listening to your priests and such. Because they clearly haven't.

I'm pretty sure all Hanako was saying is that being religious doesn't make one a literalist unable to accept scientific evidence.

Some people are, but many of the most famous scientists in history have been religious.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm pretty sure all Hanako was saying is that being religious doesn't make one a literalist unable to accept scientific evidence.

Some people are, but many of the most famous scientists in history have been religious.

That is what I was saying, yes. 

[Han Shot First]

Galileo, who was devoutly Catholic, once said in a letter, "The Bible teaches how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."

 

If only most fundamentalists thought the same way, and stopped treating the bible like it was also a science textbook. 

[Farangbaa]

Evolution is fueled by natural selection
Natural selection is fueled by beneficial mutations
mutations occur by chance
 
Thank you for proving those scientists you insulted right. 
 
Speaking of, I see you didn't notice the "Hey, let's not insult the other side" part of my post. Weren't you the one complaining how people did that in the DAI forums about some group or another?

Oh, I get so tired of this.

Here, read:

http://www.patheos.c...on-isnt-chance/
http://www.scientifi...s-of-mutations/
http://evolution.ber...ions_faq.php#a2

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh, I get so tired of this.

Here, read:

http://www.patheos.c...on-isnt-chance/
http://www.scientifi...s-of-mutations/
http://evolution.ber...ions_faq.php#a2

You realize I was joking, right? Hence the

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Galileo, who was devoutly Catholic, once said in a letter, "The Bible teaches how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go."

 

If only most fundamentalists thought the same way, and stopped treating the bible like it was also a science textbook. 

That's a really good quote. One I always liked, I can't remember who said it sadly, is "Science explains how. Religion explains why." 

[Farangbaa]

I really hope Belgrade is a troll.

I'm pretty sure all Hanako was saying is that being religious doesn't make one a literalist unable to accept scientific evidence.

Some people are, but many of the most famous scientists in history have been religious.

Oh sure, but the moment they enter God into any scientific discussion, they're not scientists anymore. Because if one thing science has abundantly shown, over and over again, is that God plays absolutely zero role in anything that happens in the universe. Nothing requires God.

At best they can claim God started everything, but then we're left with another problem. Where does God come from?

I find that a rather funny explanation, to be honest. To explain complexity they invent something even more complex.

[Farangbaa]

You realize I was joking, right? Hence the

There's no

Not now, and not when I quoted you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

There's no 

Not now, and not when I quoted you.

That's weird. It's showing up on mine. 

 

Evolution is fueled by natural selection

Natural selection is fueled by beneficial mutations

mutations occur by chance

Thank you for proving those scientists you insulted right. 

 

Speaking of, I see you didn't notice the "Hey, let's not insult the other side" part of my post. Weren't you the one complaining how people did that in the DAI forums about some group or another a while ago? Seems a tad hypocritical if so. 

See?

[Farangbaa]

That's weird. It's showing up on mine. 
 

See?

Seriously? You go edit your post?



Did you hear that? That was the last shred of respect I had for you flying out of the window.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Seriously? You go edit your post?



Did you hear that? That was the last shred of respect I had for you flying out of the window.

I didn't edit, but knowing you you'll ignore what anyone else says and see yourself as always right. 

 

Oh no, I don't have the respect of a poster who is always insulting others and being a jerk. How will I live with myself?

[Heimdall]

Oh sure, but the moment they enter God into any scientific discussion, they're not scientists anymore. Because if one thing science has abundantly shown, over and over again, is that God plays absolutely zero role in anything that happens in the universe. Nothing requires God.

At best they can claim God started everything, but then we're left with another problem. Where does God come from?

I find that a rather funny explanation, to be honest. To explain complexity they invent something even more complex.

Suit yourself. I'm not sure why you feel the need to insist religion is anathema to science. They aren't in competition.

Many of those scientists see the orderliness of the universe as proof of God, seeing him as a "grand clockmaker", designing the mechanisms and setting the universe in motion. You see the workings uncovered by science as being independant of God, but that's not the only way to look at it. Science hasn't disproven God having a role behind the workings of the universe, it hasn't proven anything either way.