327 réponses à ce sujet

[Revan Reborn]

You could have all reapers head for dark space, it would be a rather weak cop out in the synthesis ending where they are freed. Equally you could i guess pretend the husks all leave with them too.

You're downplaying the effect of synthesis though. Even if you retcon it so that colour goes away it still changes everything at a fundamental level from organics, to environment to AI's. Trying to shoehorn it into a single merged ending would require massive overwriting of the intent.

What about the Geth? Dead?

Extent of relay damage?

Fate of Quarians? dead?

Fate of Rachni? dead?

Fate of Shephard & Co if you try and set it anywhere within lifetime of squadmates.

That's just off the top of my head.

It's not necessarily a "weak cop out." It depends on what the explanation for going back to dark space was.

 

Besides the "new DNA," all Synthesis does is perfect organics with synthetic technology and synthetics gain understanding of organics. That is what the Catalyst stated. Externally, everybody still looks the same. It's the inside that is different.

 

As far as the other choices, that depends on how much weight BioWare would want to give them in the next game. Much of this, at the very least, could be addressed in codex entries. There can be discussions and even quests to perhaps address other things. The Dragon Age Keep is also a mechanism where you can have all your choices saved in one place. However, if you noticed, not all of the choices in the previous games necessarily have to show up in the next one. The new Mass Effect game is largely hundreds of years after the Shepard trilogy so it's unlikely anyone from Shepard's team is still alive unless it's Liara, Samara, Wrex, or Grunt.

[Revan Reborn]

As I already said, I firmly believe accounting for the endings and other points of divergence adequately is outside the realm of possibility.

And yes, it is homogenizing when you suggest something like just making the glowing eyes fade as your solution to synthesis. Because you imply that would be the only difference between an individual in Synthesis or another ending. What of the radically different society implied to emerge from synthesis? What of a Galaxy that has been ruled by Reaper-Shepard for centuries? But none of that matters because "oh, they left"? If anything, I find your attitude to be the one more dismissive of and willing to throw away the endings.

It definitely matters. Again, it's the explanation and the job of the writers to make it all connect. The fact you merely cannot come to a resolution does not mean one is not possible. Every Mass Effect game largely expands on the lore. I don't see why explanations of the endings further would be any different. You can try and phrase my argument however you'd like, but the only ones "throwing away the endings" are those who want to reboot the franchise and completely ignore what happened in the Shepard trilogy.

[shepskisaac]

Again, there's this assumption that the ME3 endings need to be "avoided." Why? Merely because a few disgruntled fans did not like the endings? That's hardly a reason for BioWare to compromise their creative liberty. They certainly did not change the endings of ME3 when the game was released when they could have easily done so. I don't see why they need to appease anyone going forward. If anything, it would be far more interesting to see what the Milky Way looks like now due to those choices.

No, not because fans didn't like it. To take it into account and do it well would require massive resources. Look how varying Bioware's handling of ME1/ME2 choices was in ME3. Some were executed horribly or not at all. Now we have galaxy/life-altering choices on even grander scale. And they woud have to be continiously executed each time in ME4, ME5 and ME6. It's a monstrous developement baggage

[Revan Reborn]

No, not because fans didn't like it. To take it into account and do it well would require massive resources. Look how varying Bioware's handling of ME1/ME2 choices was in ME3. Some were executed horribly or not at all. Now we have galaxy/life-altering choices on even grander scale. And they woud have to be continiously executed each time in ME4, ME5 and ME6. It's a monstrous developement baggage

You also omitted the fact there was a two year development cycle between ME2 and ME3 with the lead writer changing. The next Mass Effect has been in development for at least three years and will likely have another before it's released. I don't believe resources are an issue. I believe time was the problem and BioWare Montreal certainly has that on their side.

 

As far as the "monstrous development baggage," that's up to the writing team to decide how specific they want to address varying issues. They are the ones creating the story after all, not the fans. They determine what we see next and what we experience. Again, I do not see this being nearly as big of an issue as many are making it out to be.

[Heimdall]

It definitely matters. Again, it's the explanation and the job of the writers to make it all connect. The fact you merely cannot come to a resolution does not mean one is not possible. Every Mass Effect game largely expands on the lore. I don't see why explanations of the endings further would be any different. You can try and phrase my argument however you'd like, but the only ones "throwing away the endings" are those who want to reboot the franchise and completely ignore what happened in the Shepard trilogy.

And you are just as free to tell me what I want as much as you like. It doesn't become any more true just because you repeat yourself.

I don't share your blind faith in the writers' abilities.

[themikefest]

No, not because fans didn't like it. To take it into account and do it well would require massive resources. Look how varying Bioware's handling of ME1/ME2 choices was in ME3. Some were executed horribly or not at all. Now we have galaxy/life-altering choices on even grander scale. And they woud have to be continiously executed each time in ME4, ME5 and ME6. It's a monstrous developement baggage

Bioware has a get-out-of-jail-free card. The details have change over time. Which details? Don't know.

 

You also omitted the fact there was a two year development cycle between ME2 and ME3 with the lead writer changing. The next Mass Effect has been in development for at least three years and will likely have another before it's released. I don't believe resources are an issue. I believe time was the problem and BioWare Montreal certainly has that on their side.

ME3's biggest enemy was time. Had Bioware been given another 12 months, the game might be different than what was released

[Vazgen]

Andromeda

Pros:

• no need to address the endings or choices of the trilogy
• has a potential for returning characters like Liara

 

Cons:

• requires creation of new technology allowing intergalactic travel in two years and six months at most
• has to explain why all the races end up on the ship or remove certain races from the game.
• has to be set far enough in the future so the new galaxy has an established infrastructure of new races
• new technology to travel inside Andromeda without mass relays
• Milky Way is abandoned with no way to return

 

Milky Way (previously unexplored sector of the galaxy unaffected by the Crucible wave)

Pros:

• no need to address the endings or choices from the trilogy
• can be set right after the Reaper War without any problems
• has room for having all the races present
• has the potential to return to the places of the trilogy in consecutive games
• callbacks to Shepard's actions are possible

Cons:

• requires an explanation of how the Crucible wave doesn't affect that region of space
• no returning characters

[ElitePinecone]

The denial is delicious.

 

More! MOAR.

[Winterking]

 

• requires an explanation of how the Crucible wave doesn't affect that region of space

I think it can easily be explained by saying that Crucible wave didn't affect dormant relays. I don't think there is nothing in ME3 to suggest otherwise.

[wright1978]

That's the most ridiculous list of false pros and cons i've ever seen.

[themikefest]

The denial is delicious.

 

More! MOAR.

It would be funny if it happens in another galaxy and not Andromeda

 

How delicious would that be for you?

[Vazgen]

 

I think it can easily be explained by saying that Crucible wave didn't affect dormant relays. I don't think there is nothing in ME3 to suggest otherwise.

There is the counterargument that the Crucible wave spreads from each relay and thus covers the whole galaxy. The decision comes down to whether to explain new technology or the workings of the Crucible wave. I prefer the latter.

 

That's the most ridiculous list of false pros and cons i've ever seen.

Oh, I love non-constructive negative feedback! I suppose you can enlighten us with reasonings behind this wonderful comment?

[Kynare]

I've been here for a few years and I'd say 80% of the discussions are what people want in the game or are what we know. Rumors seldom pop up because they are rare and generally false.

 

As far as feedback, the next Mass Effect is so far in development that our opinions at this point matter little. The game already has a direction and it will stay that course regardless of what we say, unless the game is just universally hated.

 

Not at all. My only point of contention is this idea of "needing to go to a new galaxy." If I were "insulted" by anything, it's the mere fact people are more than happy to just throw away the Shepard trilogy like it never happened and reboot the franchise by going to an entirely new galaxy which has no relation or connection to the past. In a sense, one could make the argument, if the "leak" is true, that BioWare is creating an alternate universe  (meaning no connection to the original) without any actual point or purpose.

 

Half of players' Shepards are already dead. That's probably why some are willing to embrace a new protagonist and setting. The breath scene was only added afterward, and I think they made it clear that anything else after that would have to be a headcanon. Even with the rumors and the bad reception to the ME3 ending aside, I think that Bioware always intended to base the new game in a setting away from Shepard's.

 

I agree that it's not necessary to go to a new galaxy. But as for in-game logic, I don't think any human would pass up the chance to explore outside of our galaxy if we had the ability. It's like how we don't even know everything there is to know about our oceans on Earth, but we still devote resources to researching space. It wouldn't be entirely unrealistic to have a character who is exploring outside of the Milky Way. We don't need to assume they would completely disregard everything that happened in the previous trilogy. I actually find it really unlikely they would do that.

 

On another note, the survey rumor isn't the Ark Theory--they don't even mention anything bad happening to the Milky Way or how you got to Andromeda (discovered a super-mass relay? Accidentally tripped in a wormhole? ) Just that you would be a pathfinder.

 

But yeah; you're right that it's just a rumor, so I'm not making any assumptions. Likewise, there's no reason to assume a setting outside of the Milky Way would make a horrible ME game, either. It's all about the execution.

[wright1978]

 

Oh, I love non-constructive negative feedback! I suppose you can enlighten us with reasonings behind this wonderful comment?

 

 

Where do I start. You are suggesting going back to previous locations, including all the previous races, setting it immediately after the endings and yet claiming there’s no need to address the endings of the choices. That’s just complete nonsense.

[ElitePinecone]

It would be funny if it happens in another galaxy and not Andromeda

 

How delicious would that be for you?

 

I have pretty much no stakes in where they set it, as long as it's not the Milky Way.

[Vazgen]

Where do I start. You are suggesting going back to previous locations, including all the previous races, setting it immediately after the endings and yet claiming there’s no need to address the endings of the choices. That’s just complete nonsense.

Oh, I see, so you didn't read the post. 

1) I said "has the potential to return to the places of the trilogy in consecutive games". Example, we discover some sort of crazy alien technology in ME: Next that reverses the effects of Synthesis and has the potential to destroy the Reapers without collateral damage. ME:Next 2 starts with humans using that technology and returning to the places of the trilogy. Far-fetched? Sure. Possible though.

2) The setting - the races of the trilogy have already settled that region of space. The only reason the wave doesn't reach there is because they sacrifice a key relay connecting their sector to the trilogy locations. They are cut away from the rest of the galaxy and are forced to search for new trade partners and resources, thus activating dormant relays and exploring the rest of the galaxy.

3) Crucible wave does not affect that sector of space. There is no problem with setting the game right after the events of the trilogy

 

Please, continue.

[wright1978]

Oh, I see, so you didn't read the post. 

1) I said "has the potential to return to the places of the trilogy in consecutive games". Example, we discover some sort of crazy alien technology in ME: Next that reverses the effects of Synthesis and has the potential to destroy the Reapers without collateral damage. ME:Next 2 starts with humans using that technology and returning to the places of the trilogy. Far-fetched? Sure. Possible though.

2) The setting - the races of the trilogy have already settled that region of space. The only reason the wave doesn't reach there is because they sacrifice a key relay connecting their sector to the trilogy locations. They are cut away from the rest of the galaxy and are forced to search for new trade partners and resources, thus activating dormant relays and exploring the rest of the galaxy.

3) Crucible wave does not affect that sector of space. There is no problem with setting the game right after the events of the trilogy

 

Please, continue.

1) Contrived idiocy that would disrespect the first trilogy & choices

2) There's no suggestion such a strategy would work as well as there being no suggestion from galaxy map that wave was stopped.

What's the reasoning behind committing genocide on whoever is in that system before knowledge of the wave even if they run with the strange logic of it working. Equally contrived as Andromeda where all the races have somehow settled this little backwater of the galaxy.

[Soultaker08]

The denial is delicious.

More! MOAR.

Stop trying to turn this discussion into a "Winner-Loser-Argument", its neither helpful nor respectful.

[Vazgen]

 

1) Contrived idiocy that would disrespect the first trilogy & choices

2) There's no suggestion such a strategy would work as well as there being no suggestion from galaxy map that wave was stopped.

What's the reasoning behind committing genocide on whoever is in that system before knowledge of the wave even if they run with the strange logic of it working. Equally contrived as Andromeda where all the races have somehow settled this little backwater of the galaxy.

1) Indeed. That's just one example though, made up in less than a minute. Unless you suggest that there will be no access to trilogy locations in Mass Effect universe from now on? While I'm not really opposed to this, a lot of people might be. 

2) Desperation is already established and such sacrifice is expected. We even did it as Shepard. It's certainly not as contrived as coming up with technology more advanced than the Reaper tech in two years and transfer the races (including humanity) to another galaxy in a way that is not known to anyone, including Hackett who supposedly pulls all the available resources into the Crucible. 

[SolNebula]

I know for sure that in many legal systems not denying something equates to acknowledging.

 

BW hasn't denied the leak content.

[B.Shep]

From what I see this whole Ark Theory is turning out to be the IT all over again... From the "theory" backed up by no evidence to the way people talk about it like it's a truth set in stone.  And we all know how well that ended...

 

Guess it's time to take a few steps back from this forum until bioware decides to talk about it. Good thing Withcer 3 will be released in less than a month.

[ElitePinecone]

Stop trying to turn this discussion into a "Winner-Loser-Argument", its neither helpful nor respectful.

 

The entire tone of this thread is neither helpful nor respectful. 

 

The OP has been insinuating for the last two days that people who believe the leak is genuine are either stupid or gullible.

[Heimdall]

From what I see this whole Ark Theory is turning out to be the IT all over again... From the "theory" backed up by no evidence to the way people talk about it like it's a truth set in stone.  And we all know how well that ended...

IT was wishful thinking from a bunch of people trying to deny the reality already presented to them.

Ark Theory is a speculative idea using what little we've been told to construct a scenario that allows the franchise to move forward without becoming entangled in the controversy of ME3's endings or getting dragged down in damage control. Nobody thinks it's set in stone, but it does fall in line with everything we know about the game so far, and thus seems like a good possibility.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

IT was wishful thinking from a bunch of people trying to deny the reality already presented to them.

Ark Theory is a speculative idea using what little we've been told to construct a scenario that allows the franchise to move forward without becoming entangled in the controversy of ME3's endings or getting dragged down in damage control. Nobody thinks it's set in stone, but it does fall in line with everything we know about the game so far, and thus seems like a good possibility.

Funny. The IT people would say the exact same but just switch the theories around.