56 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex Hawke]

Traveling around Thedas, the protagonist can find personal letters (http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_A_Father%27s_Letter), diaries , other stuff, belonged to their opponents', which (the stuff) shows that they are (were?) people (not big red glowing monsters, trying to kill you).

 

So, have you tried to dehumanize them or "Sword in hand is the first and the last thing we have in common"?

 

EDIT: My opinion on the matter:
Shortly, both Red Templars (mage-haters) and Grey Warden ("victory by any cost"-attitude) are rather unpleasant characters (considering that Fiona, Anders, the protagonist, Cassandra and Cullen don't belong to them), thus it was more like satisfying (unlike hunting High Dragons). So, I felt kinda bad, because of it.

Modifié par Alex Hawke, 21 avril 2015 - 08:04 .

[Treacherous J Slither]

"It won't be long until all the mages are gone..."

Wrong. Mages are born just about every day all over Thedas.

**** that guy. Him and his kind deserve what they get and my Inquisitor enjoys giving it to them.

[Reznore57]

The Red templars are big red monsters trying to kill you.

I don't have much feeling about killing them , they were capturing people left and right and using them to grow red lyrium.

Innocents eaten alive by lyrium.

 

The only time I was bothered is when you have to fight the Sentinels to get to the temple of Mythal.

It was from a RP point of view , I imagine it was very confusing for my Dalish to fight elves looking just like him.

Finding out he was killing his ancestors who were busy protecting a sacred place wasn't the best.

[Taki17]

It would've been better if these things (and just about every piece of interesting information) weren't written only in easily missable notes and books here and there, but the game should've had some real characters telling this in actual missions or cutscenes. Like meeting a group of Red Templars who are trying to defect from Corypheus. They're cleary red lyrium addicted, their transformation already began and they're cannot be saved, but they're still sane and can think for themselves. And the Inquistior must decide what do do with them - put them out of their misery, bring them back to Skyhold for studying them or let them be. And before you make that decision, the Red Templars would tell you their stories, like some of them were force-fed, others took the red lyrium because they trusted in their superiors at first. One of them could share the what was in that letter, like how he believed in eradicating evil mages and trusting the Templar idea, he took the red lyrium willingly only to discover he was used by others.

[QueenCrow]

I felt badly about killing the Grey Wardens, and the Red Templars too.  I felt even worse after I found out that both groups had been deceived and utterly used, especially so with Samson - learning about how he used to be a decent man, and hearing his story.  But I killed all the ones who fought me anyway.  It just felt bad.

[zambingo]

The game provides moments when enemies give up/change sides. All others get to learn why these boots are made for walking. Lives lost can be mournful, but at some point the reality of war demands you keep putting one foot infront of the other.

[berelinde]

I loved the letters. As you say, they humanized the enemies and gave you glimpses of what their lives were like before everything went to hell. Of course, by the time you encounter them, the red lyrium/blood magic has already stolen their minds, so killing them is a mercy. Let that child or lover remember them how they used to be.

[Junebug]

No, I didn't dehumanize them. I actually felt bad killing them, especially after reading their letters. I like that they give you a choice whether to make it more of a power fantasy or a moral struggle. It's like Yahtzee's review of Spec Ops: The Line says: "It's one for the history books! Or at the very least, it will make you want to pick up a history book and hit yourself with it until you're a less horrible person."

[MisterJB]

"It won't be long until all the mages are gone..."

Wrong. Mages are born just about every day all over Thedas.

**** that guy. Him and his kind deserve what they get and my Inquisitor enjoys giving it to them.

He's simplifying it for a child, his daugther.

[Dai Grepher]

Depends. Case by case basis.

 

The Reds who took it under orders and didn't know any better, I feel sorry for them. Especially that dying one in Sulidin near the flag. He was tricked into taking it and was able to resist. He even chose to stay infected rather than take whatever unethical choice Imshael offered him. Remember, the Reds were being controlled through the red lyrium by Corypheus.

 

As for the Reds who willingly took it knowing what it would do, or those who hated mages and the Chantry to begin with; I don't feel bad for killing them.

 

I feel fine killing all those Reds who have been corrupted to the point beyond repair. Like the codex for the Behemoth states, the person is long dead and the monster is all that remains. Killing that monster would be a mercy.

 

But those who are still only slightly corrupted and can be saved if taken off in time, I would have rather saved them if possible. With Denam, he had only just started, so he was able to get off it. But he did it willingly, and murdered the Knight Captain. So I put him in prison for life after interrogating him.

 

As for the Wardens, it's still a case by case basis. I feel bad for most of the Wardens who had to die in order for the Inquisition to get into Adamant. They were just following orders and doing what they thought was best for the world. The ones under Corypheus' control, I have mixed feelings about. They should have known blood magic and demon summoning was unethical, but by the time they realize the consequences it's too late to turn back. I kill them without any worry. And as for the Wardens who changed their mind in the end, I can forgive them. But that doesn't mean they should go unpunished. Expelling the entire order makes no sense, but I would have liked the option to punish them in some other way. Best I could do is send them to fight the darkspawn and demons in Orlais.

 

As for Ser Ruth, I imprisoned her. Public humiliation wasn't enough, an early Calling is just moving up the inevitable outcome, forgiveness from Andraste is not a valid option. So prison is the only thing I could choose.

 

I actually wish there had been a way to put Ruth to work shoveling horse crap for the Inquisition, as well as other menial jobs. Also would have been cool if her working in the stables had drawn Blackwall's eye. There are parallels between both characters and I think they both could have helped each other cope with their respective failings. I would have worked Ruth ragged until she remembered that being a Grey Warden is about service to others. Then I would have reinstated her and given her armor back.

 

But yeah, remorseful Wardens like Ruth get a strict punishment and then forgiveness. Wardens like Duncan get an axe to the face.

[DirkJake]

I can sympathize with grey warders, but not so with red templars.

 

At least grey warders have good intention and a noble goal i.e. to prevent the next blight.

[The Baconer]

I don't need to dehumanize them, they're already freak mutants. I'm sorry for what they became (well, most of them), but not for ending their lives. 

 

I'm sorry most of all that Samson was not given the horrific end he deserved.

[X Equestris]

It would've been better if these things (and just about every piece of interesting information) weren't written only in easily missable notes and books here and there, but the game should've had some real characters telling this in actual missions or cutscenes. Like meeting a group of Red Templars who are trying to defect from Corypheus. They're cleary red lyrium addicted, their transformation already began and they're cannot be saved, but they're still sane and can think for themselves. And the Inquistior must decide what do do with them - put them out of their misery, bring them back to Skyhold for studying them or let them be. And before you make that decision, the Red Templars would tell you their stories, like some of them were force-fed, others took the red lyrium because they trusted in their superiors at first. One of them could share the what was in that letter, like how he believed in eradicating evil mages and trusting the Templar idea, he took the red lyrium willingly only to discover he was used by others.

I think you meet one Red Templar who was infected but hadn't turned, and was a little sympathetic, at the flagpole in the Emprise de Lion Keep. But he's more for exposition than anything else.

[Navasha]

Felt a little bad killing the Grey Wardens, but the Templars already mostly dehumanized themselves even before they became glowing red-eyed monsters.    Even in DA2, most Templars were little better than common bandits on the empathy scale, so yeah, didn't even feel a glimmer of remorse watching them go down.

[LightningPoodle]

Felt like a God! 

[dsl08002]

I feel bad about killing the grey wardens however given that Grey wardens pack the most skillful and power fullest warriors I was expecting a more difficult opponent, but they really wasn't.

[Taki17]

I feel bad about killing the grey wardens however given that Grey wardens pack the most skillful and power fullest warriors I was expecting a more difficult opponent, but they really wasn't.

Yeah, after everything DAO did to build up the Grey Warden myth, everything else in the sequels felt pretty underwelming about them.

[Gileadan]

Yeah, after everything DAO did to build up the Grey Warden myth, everything else in the sequels felt pretty underwelming about them.

Isn't that a recurring theme in both the DA and ME franchise? Any organisation the protagonist is not a part of drops a few levels on the scales of competence and sympathy, compared to previous installments.

[Taki17]

Isn't that a recurring theme in both the DA and ME franchise? Any organisation the protagonist is not a part of drops a few levels on the scales of competence and sympathy, compared to previous installments.

Well, it's true for the Wardens.

 

In ME1, Shepard was a Spectre and an Alliance soldier. The Alliance was portrayed as a decent military force. The only two Spectres we meet end up dead or traitor. After the first game, we haven't met any Spectres except for the duration of a side mission.

In ME2, Shepard was with Cerberus. In ME1, Cerberus was a minor enemy, in ME2, they were shady and untrustworthy allies, and in ME3, they were a major enemy.

In ME3, Shepard is an Alliance soldier and Spectre again, although the latter postition bears little to none significance story-wise. The Alliance is still the same though, they are represented as a powerful military, despites their losses.

 

I'm curious to see what will become of the Wardens and the Inquistion in DA4.

[Chardonney]

I felt really bad for having to kill Wardens but I'm glad we where given the option to safe at least some of them.

[Bunny]

I could not distance myself from the Wardens after playing DAO. I felt a kinship, even though the Inquisitor has no ties. At the same time, I found myself thinking, "Where were you people when I needed you in DAO?" Terribly conflicting emotions.

[Dieb]

"It won't be long until all the mages are gone..."

Wrong. Mages are born just about every day all over Thedas.

**** that guy. Him and his kind deserve what they get and my Inquisitor enjoys giving it to them.

 

It's good that you kill them for what their kind deserves, then. To rid the world of this kind of...

 

Wait.

[Aren]

Don't worry they are just pixel.

[KotorEffect3]

I never was a big fan of regular templars so killing corrupted red templars that had last their nut anyway didn't bother me.  As far as hostile Grey Wardens go well we saw how the venatori had corrupted them, and we saw how corypheus himself could manipulate them as far back as Legacy DLC from DA2.  These wardens aren't the same as the guy I saved Fereldan with a couple of games ago.  These wardens aren't themselves and the sane wardens that stood down at adament once they saw what was going on aren't fighting against me anyway. 

[General TSAR]

Stupid idiots, both of them.

Thankfully, I managed to salvage the Templars. 

 

Remember kids, don't listen to the voices in your heads.