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[CrutchCricket]

The canon Shepard is a Sole Survivor, not a War Hero

There is no canon Shepard.

 

Surprised I read this far...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Canon (default) Shepard is sole survivor, Earthborn, and a soldier. IMO he was on a very optimistic fast track: N7 and a Lt Cmdr by 29. So why not Spectre by then? The character is already way overpowered, can assault and murder people at will, rob bank ATMs, loot apartments, loot corpses without any repercussions, and can order others to murder. This is your hero. The one the galaxy looks up to. A Spectre who is above the law only because its a video game..

 

Then there's Anderson who was going to make Spectre only 7 years after first contact. How ridiculous was that?

[CrutchCricket]

Default=/=canon

[Fixers0]

There are unique workarounds with the default. Since he was a Cerberus experiment, perhaps sleeper agents in the Alliance were pushing his career the whole time (while at the same time, Shepard delivered results that impressed everyone anyways). With War Hero, it's obvious. Personally, I imagine War Hero like an Audie Murphy.. maybe an Infiltrator who took out hundreds of Batarians. Or maybe mix in a bit of John McClane as well. Sabotage and using whatever he had available. If I recall correctly, he was on vacation in Elysium at the time, just like Die Hard....

 

Actually, that only goes up for the Spacer and Earthborn, there's a subtle difference in the Codex with regards to colonist which tells that Shepard was stationed by the Alliance rather than on Shore leave.

[Han Shot First]

I like the Earthborn/Spacer versions of the War Hero background better, because it explains why Shepard (who at best was only a junior officer at the time) ended up being the person responsible for the defense of Elysium. In that scenario he's basically the most senior Alliance person around and ends up rallying a bunch of colonists to defend the city.

 

In the Colonist version he is stationed on Elysium, which raises the question about where the rest of his unit was, why it was primarily colonists that defended Elysium, and why Shepard was in command. If an Alliance unit was stationed on Elysium there should be hundreds (if not thousands) of other Alliance personnel depending on the type of unit and the support and logistics staff needed to keep that unit in fighting trim. Shepard also wouldn't be the senior officer. The other scenario works better because there are not necessarily any Alliance units nearby at the time.

 

Torfan has some similar oddities. As a junior officer at Shepard shouldn't be in command of anything larger than a platoon or company, which seems far too small for a major planetary assault. A platoon or company would only make sense if the Batarians were present in in lesser numbers. Torfan works perhaps if Shepard leads a platoon or company in neutralizing the last Batarian holdouts on the planet or their headquarters or something, but his unit is only a small part of a much larger Alliance operation involving a battalion, regiment, or division. It's not quite described that way though.

[bunch1]

I like the Earthborn/Spacer versions of the War Hero background better, because it explains why Shepard (who at best was only a junior officer at the time) ended up being the person responsible for the defense of Elysium. In that scenario he's basically the most senior Alliance person around and ends up rallying a bunch of colonists to defend the city.

 

In the Colonist version he is stationed on Elysium, which raises the question about where the rest of his unit was, why it was primarily colonists that defended Elysium, and why Shepard was in command. If an Alliance unit was stationed on Elysium there should be hundreds (if not thousands) of other Alliance personnel depending on the type of unit and the support and logistics staff needed to keep that unit in fighting trim. Shepard also wouldn't be the senior officer. The other scenario works better because there are not necessarily any Alliance units nearby at the time.

 

Torfan has some similar oddities. As a junior officer at Shepard shouldn't be in command of anything larger than a platoon or company, which seems far too small for a major planetary assault. A platoon or company would only make sense if the Batarians were present in in lesser numbers. Torfan works perhaps if Shepard leads a platoon or company in neutralizing the last Batarian holdouts on the planet or their headquarters or something, but his unit is only a small part of a much larger Alliance operation involving a battalion, regiment, or division. It's not quite described that way though.

All colonies have marines stationed on them so even if he is just on vacation there is going to be a full unit or two around.  Eden Prime had what, 2 brigades at the beacon site alone and Elysium has twice the population at over 8 million.  But I always viewed the blitz as a massive operation attacking all across the planet with Shepard either saving a smaller town or outpost while the larger units were stationed in the larger cities, or being left in the rear while the marines went to meet the pirates outside of town and Shepard had to hold off a surprise attack.

 

As for Torfan their is 1 very clear option as to how Shepard came to command.  Casualties.  Major Kyle was Shepard's CO at the battle but he clearly wasn't in charge throughout the operation.  Alliance officers seem to lead from the front and in the confines of Torfan fighting desperate pirates I don't have a hard time imagining that most of the senior officers are either killed or wounded leaving Shepard as 1 of several lieutenants, and Shepard is a dominate and charismatic person so I see no reason why he wouldn't take charge over his fellow lt's by the end.

[MrFob]

Ha, It's interesting that this thread comes up now because for my next playthrough, I am planning to roleplay an older Shepard:

Spoiler

 

He will be sort of a grizzled veteran soldier kinda guy. I know I will have to ignore some of ME's established backstory for it (and I hope I won't get too many immersion breaking moments for it) but I am really looking forward to find out how well this kind of Shepard can be played.

 

Still thinking on the background I should give him. I think service history is probably going to be Torfan, although, I won't play him very renegade. I want to play it like he was given this impossible assignment and he lost the men but it was considered a miracle that eh got the mission done anyway. He feels guilt for the loss but he would never admit that to anyone but his absolute closest friends, of the record.

 

Not sure about the pre-service history yet. I tend to go with Colonist. I wanted to go Spacer for the military tradition in the family but it's going to be awkward when he phones his mom. Earthborn is too roguish, especially in combination with Torfan, I do want this guy to be very much routed in the military tradition.

Suggestions are welcome.

[bunch1]

My personal take on Torfan is that Shep is a reckless Vanguard.. this is why Kyle tries to bond with biotics later. lol. He doesn't want them to be as crazy as Shepard. And the way the operation sounds, it would fit a high risk type of approach... just charging in.. and maybe Shepard's crew couldn't keep up. But he destroyed everything, and executed the rest. And since Biotics are rare in the Alliance, maybe that helps with climbing up the ranks. You can't argue with results anyways.

Vanguard would be a good option.  Could also see Infiltrator leading a small unit in a stealth attack and simply executing prisoners because they don't have anyone to guard them.  Engineer is the one that seems least likely and I could only see Shepard taking command by default of the other officers being taken out of the picture.

[Han Shot First]

All colonies have marines stationed on them so even if he is just on vacation there is going to be a full unit or two around.  Eden Prime had what, 2 brigades at the beacon site alone and Elysium has twice the population at over 8 million.  But I always viewed the blitz as a massive operation attacking all across the planet with Shepard either saving a smaller town or outpost while the larger units were stationed in the larger cities, or being left in the rear while the marines went to meet the pirates outside of town and Shepard had to hold off a surprise attack.

 

Actually the Alliance doesn't appear to garrison all of it's colony worlds. The codex entry on Alliance military doctrine states that it operates by Sun Tzu's maxim that "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing." It isn't focused on trying to hold territory in the face of an attack, and instead has an offensive mindset. The Alliance doctrine is not to contest attacked colonies from the ground, and instead to counterattack with the fleet.

 

Having said that you might be right about Elysium having a garrison regardless of Shepard's background, particularly considering it is one of the more important colony worlds. I suppose the scenario with Colony Shep still works if the Alliance forces were not stationed near Illyria (the capital city of Elysium), which would seem to be the focus of the attack, considering how venerated Shepard is on the planet. Maybe the Alliance forces were stationed in another region hundreds of miles away, or even on another continent. Colony Shep happens to be in Illyria when the attack hits, but he and the city can't count on Alliance reinforcements because they are far off and dealing with their own Batarian attack. That would explain why he ends up in command and rallying colonists. The same scenario plays out for Spacer/Earthborn, except they are in Illyria on vacation.

 

 

As for Torfan their is 1 very clear option as to how Shepard came to command.  Casualties.  Major Kyle was Shepard's CO at the battle but he clearly wasn't in charge throughout the operation.  Alliance officers seem to lead from the front and in the confines of Torfan fighting desperate pirates I don't have a hard time imagining that most of the senior officers are either killed or wounded leaving Shepard as 1 of several lieutenants, and Shepard is a dominate and charismatic person so I see no reason why he wouldn't take charge over his fellow lt's by the end.

 

I completely forgot about it being said that Major Kyle was at Torfan. You might be right.  Majors in the Alliance are the equivalent of full Colonels in the real world, so it seems to imply that at the very least the operation involved an Alliance regiment.

[bunch1]

Actually the Alliance doesn't appear to garrison all of it's colony worlds. The codex entry on Alliance military doctrine states that it operates by Sun Tzu's maxim that "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing." It isn't focused on trying to hold territory in the face of an attack, and instead has an offensive mindset. The Alliance doctrine is not to contest attacked colonies from the ground, and instead to counterattack with the fleet.

 

Having said that you might be right about Elysium having a garrison regardless of Shepard's background, particularly considering it is one of the more important colony worlds. I suppose the scenario with Colony Shep still works if the Alliance forces were not stationed near Illyria (the capital city of Elysium), which would seem to be the focus of the attack, considering how venerated Shepard is on the planet. Maybe the Alliance forces were stationed in another region hundreds of miles away, or even on another continent. Colony Shep happens to be in Illyria when the attack hits, but he and the city can't count on Alliance reinforcements because they are far off and dealing with their own Batarian attack. That would explain why he ends up in command and rallying colonists. The same scenario plays out for Spacer/Earthborn, except they are in Illyria on vacation.

The alliance doesn't try to hold the ground during an invasion but they still have garrisons on planets.  There main role in an invasion is to disperse and gather intel to provide to the main force when it arrives and conduct gurillia style operations to disrupt the enemy.  Remember the story of Shanxi had a full general in charge of it's garrison and they still didn't engage in open battle with the Turians.  However given the fact that most human colonies are settled near the terminus and pirates and warlords are said to routinely cross into citadel space for raids I see no reason why alliance colones wouldn't have dedicated military units deployed to ward off these hit and run style attacks.

[Han Shot First]

The alliance doesn't try to hold the ground during an invasion but they still have garrisons on planets.  There main role in an invasion is to disperse and gather intel to provide to the main force when it arrives and conduct gurillia style operations to disrupt the enemy.  Remember the story of Shanxi had a full general in charge of it's garrison and they still didn't engage in open battle with the Turians.  However given the fact that most human colonies are settled near the terminus and pirates and warlords are said to routinely cross into citadel space for raids I see no reason why alliance colones wouldn't have dedicated military units deployed to ward off these hit and run style attacks.

 

Some colony worlds don't have garrisons. Feros is one such example. Mindoir was another.  

 

Having said that...Elysium is a much more populated world than both and of more strategic value. It may be that there is a garrison there, regardless of Shepard's background.

[bunch1]

Some colony worlds don't have garrisons. Feros is one such example. Mindoir was another.  

 

Having said that...Elysium is a much more populated world than both and of more strategic value. It may be that there is a garrison there, regardless of Shepard's background.

I imagine that once a colony hits a certain number the marines are sent in.  Feros is a very small colony, more a dig operation then an actual settlement, of at most a couple hundred and it has it's own private security force.  As for Mindoir we don't know if there were any marines on the planet when the slavers hit, Shepard mentions his whole family fighting back and getting hit with artillery for their trouble.  I always imagined they had a small garrison spread thin over the farming colony and when the batarians hit in such force it overwhelmed them quickly, even the reinforcement from a carrier group were unable to push in and rescue the civilians because the resistance was so tough.  Also there is the mission in ME2 with the Javelin Missile base defending a colony of a few thousand, and if I recall right a further base you can protect at the cost of the civilians.

 

Remember also the letter you get from IM in ME2 for the Mattock refers to it being used by colony militias for decades, even before heat clips so I always viewed it as the locals are suppose to augment the professionals.

 

And Elysium should certainly have a garrison if both Shanxi and Eden Prime have their own dedicated marines.

[MrStoob]

Ageism!

 

By this reckoning, Hackett is too young to be an Admiral.

[Daemul]

Canon Shepard is twenty-nine years old when he's made a Spectre. Now, at this point medicine has advanced so far as to give the average human a life expectancy of a hundred and fifty years. Assuming an average real life expectancy of eighty, that makes Shepard fifteen years old!

OMG, you need to go back and listen to that conversation with Liara and Shepard again because there is nowhere that Shepard says the average human life expectancy is 150. He says that humans "would be lucky to reach 150", just like today humans would be lucky to reach 120 but the vast, vast, VAST majority do not, most people fall 40+ years of reaching that point. How on earth some people came to conclusion that Shepard was talking about the average life expectancy is beyond me.

[Sifr]

Canon Shepard is twenty-nine years old when he's made a Spectre. Now, at this point medicine has advanced so far as to give the average human a life expectancy of a hundred and fifty years. Assuming an average real life expectancy of eighty, that makes Shepard fifteen years old!

 

Using both Insane Troll Logic and You Fail Biology Forever, then this would also mean that Miranda (35) far too young to be XO of the SR2, as her lifespan is meant to be double that of the normal human due to her genetic engineering... making her 8 ¾!

 

But no, in all seriousness, age does not work that way.

 

[ThomasBlaine]

Wow. I had no idea you people were still here.

 

OMG, you need to go back and listen to that conversation with Liara and Shepard again because there is nowhere that Shepard says the average human life expectancy is 150. He says that humans "would be lucky to reach 150", just like today humans would be lucky to reach 120 but the vast, vast, VAST majority do not, most people fall 40+ years of reaching that point. How on earth some people came to conclusion that Shepard was talking about the average life expectancy is beyond me.

 

"Humans can live to about 150 years, and recent medical advances have eradicated almost all known diseases that afflict them. However, as humans only emerged on the galactic stage within the last thirty years, it is highly likely that the introduction of new technology into their society will greatly increase their average lifespan."

 

Taken from the article on Humans at the Mass Effect wiki. You see the words "150 years" and "average lifespan" in the same paragraph? That's how I came to the conclusion. A bit hasty, yes, but nothing to throw a tantrum over. 

 

I think we've firmly established that I took the notion too seriously in the original post, thank you very much. The next person to read that and skip the entire rest of the thread just to personally get to state that I fail at biology is a raging zoophile. I'm calling it.

[dreamgazer]

Wow. I had no idea you people were still here.

Folks are waiting on details about the next game, and this topic is more entertaining than the other nonsensical, circular bickering that routinely pops up in this forum. Of course they're still here (and lurkers, too).

[Silvair]

Shepard is not 15 years old. He is 29 years old. He has the body of a 29 year old man (or woman, if you play as FemShep). He has the psyche, experience, age, and skill of a person who is 29 years old.

 

This is a catastrophic failure to understand biology on your part. Biology does not work like that. Aging does not work like that. Medicine does not work like that.

 

Shepard will live longer, but there will be no compensation in age by 'setting the clock back' and making him 15 years old. 

 

What it might mean is that he able to keep up and be more youthful for a longer period, especially after the augmentations he receives when he is brought back from the dead.

actually he's right.  Not because of biology, but culture.  the longer people live, the wider the age gap becomes that people are considered "kids".  Its why people used to marry and have kids in what we consider the teenage/formative years now.  Whereas now that people live to be in their 80s instead of just 40s, now we consider teens and 20s to be "kids".  This is why legal ages for sex, drinking, driving, etc, vary from place to place.

 

Now that said, i don't think it would actually affect qualifications for military rank.

 

 

ALso my custom Shepard, I intentionally made him look a little more rugged and ragged to reflect his War Hero status, so the entire trilogy I had it in my head that Shepard is more like mid to late 30s.  Which made the Tali romance a little awkward at first, it came across more as a smitten schoolgirl crush lol.

[God]

actually he's right.  Not because of biology, but culture.  the longer people live, the wider the age gap becomes that people are considered "kids".  Its why people used to marry and have kids in what we consider the teenage/formative years now.  Whereas now that people live to be in their 80s instead of just 40s, now we consider teens and 20s to be "kids".  This is why legal ages for sex, drinking, driving, etc, vary from place to place.

 

Now that said, i don't think it would actually affect qualifications for military rank.

 

 

ALso my custom Shepard, I intentionally made him look a little more rugged and ragged to reflect his War Hero status, so the entire trilogy I had it in my head that Shepard is more like mid to late 30s.  Which made the Tali romance a little awkward at first, it came across more as a smitten schoolgirl crush lol.

 

That doesn't necessarily hold true at all, especially in a speculative future. 

 

I'm probably the closest person here to a real-life Commander Shepard, and I can tell you that ageism is a factor in some ways, but not in the ways you're ascribing to the military.

 

And to be frank, what you have in your head (in this case) is wrong. Shepard has a set age, that exists beyond the control or touch of headcanon.

 

Tali's romance is very awkward. It's exactly a school girl crush. Tali needs to get real. She should never have been a romance option.

[ThomasBlaine]

actually he's right.  Not because of biology, but culture.  the longer people live, the wider the age gap becomes that people are considered "kids".  Its why people used to marry and have kids in what we consider the teenage/formative years now.  Whereas now that people live to be in their 80s instead of just 40s, now we consider teens and 20s to be "kids".  This is why legal ages for sex, drinking, driving, etc, vary from place to place.

 

Now that said, i don't think it would actually affect qualifications for military rank.

 

My point minus the teenieShep joke exactly. Although people who survived childhood have always mostly been able to live to 70-80. Child mortality + "average lifespan" confusion. Different issue. But if the 150 years are supposed to be the maximum age rather than the average lifespan, then the age categories shouldn't widen nearly as much as I had thought, and if those last fourty-fifty years are spent basically infirm (based on Hackett being only 52 years old in ME2) then it's not so much of a social issue and more of an economical disaster for humanity that is never addressed in the games.

 

I still think 29 is proportionately pretty young for Spectre status, but maybe they're using the Turian template since their lifespans are "comparable to that of a human". The average turian might be more mature and certainly more disciplined than the average human at age 29.

 

Folks are waiting on details about the next game, and this topic is more entertaining than the other nonsensical, circular bickering that routinely pops up in this forum. Of course they're still here (and lurkers, too).

 

Weird. The throwaway notion of Shepard being comparable to a teenager sure didn't seem to amuse anyone.

[Silvair]

My point minus the teenieShep joke exactly. Although people who survived childhood have always mostly been able to live to 70-80. Child mortality + "average lifespan" confusion. Different issue. But if the 150 years are supposed to be the maximum age rather than the average lifespan, then the age categories shouldn't widen nearly as much as I had thought, and if those last fourty-fifty years are spent basically infirm (based on Hackett being only 52 years old in ME2) then it's not so much of a social issue and more of an economical disaster for humanity that is never addressed in the games.

 

I still think 29 is proportionately pretty young for Spectre status, but maybe they're using the Turian template since their lifespans are "comparable to that of a human". The average turian might be more mature and certainly more disciplined than the average human at age 29.

 

 

Weird. The throwaway notion of Shepard being comparable to a teenager sure didn't seem to amuse anyone.

The infirm point is true.  Lewis Black, who is in his 60s, mentioned how his parents, who are in their 90s, still see him as "the kid", despite him technically being elderly.  Its because perspective changes with age.

 

On the point of human disasters, it actually brings it up in the lore.  outside of the actual military service, humanity is having a terrible time.  Earth is a polluted junkyard, humans spreading too far too fast, resulting in being absorbed into the larger galactic community, whether by slavery or simple cultural osmosis, then theres Cerberus, poor galactic reputation, etc.  Shepard is the "ideal" human, but its obvious that outside of the Normandy, humanity is just one giant disaster in mass effect.

 

Though going by the Turian template actually makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider that Shepard was the first human spectre, it makes sense they'd be compared to Turians.  Salarians and Asaris lifespans are too short/long respectively, to really use as a "standard".  Well Salarians are more like a humans lifespan from centuries ago.

 

 

The overall point though, is while its true that maturity comes from experience, not age, those who are drastically older than you will always have a hard time believing you have the experience required, especially if it took them that entire time to learn the same.  And this is only exacerbated by the increased lifespan.

[ThomasBlaine]

On the point of human disasters, it actually brings it up in the lore.  outside of the actual military service, humanity is having a terrible time.  Earth is a polluted junkyard, humans spreading too far too fast, resulting in being absorbed into the larger galactic community, whether by slavery or simple cultural osmosis, then theres Cerberus, poor galactic reputation, etc.  Shepard is the "ideal" human, but its obvious that outside of the Normandy, humanity is just one giant disaster in mass effect.

 

And yet the Alliance has a spaceworthy military comparable to those of races that have been out there for thousands of years, and has developed the most advanced spaceship ever constructed only a few decades after first contact with those races. And I don't know, the poor galactic reputation seems mostly a fact of being the new kid in town. What I really don't understand is how humanity can possibly afford to colonize so aggressively and maintain such a military if they can only work effectively for less than half of their total lifespans.