91 réponses à ce sujet

[Vazgen]

In light of the recent discussions about ME:Next taking place in Andromeda galaxy, several people, myself included, said that it "won't be Mass Effect". But then I decided to give it more thought. What makes a Mass Effect game?

I thought, if the game does take place in Andromeda galaxy, what can be done to make it feel like Mass Effect? Obviously some familiar technology should be there, like the locked/unlocked/hackable icons on doors, omni-tools, biotics etc. Some degree of familiar gameplay, like cover-based TPS, tech and biotic powers etc. And Council races. In a similar thread some time ago, I had written only these three factors. 

But then I played the new Thief reboot. It was a very good game, with well-crafted animations, challenging AI and interesting (at least to me) storyline and characters. But it didn't feel like a Thief game to me and I think I know why. The technology and gameplay were mostly the same, only more advanced. Races were of no issue in those series. But...

 

Thief spoilers below:

Spoiler

the factions of the old Thief games were not present in the reboot. My favorite mission in the new game was the House of Blossoms, forgotten Keeper library where you felt like diving into the atmosphere of the older games. Other missions lacked that unique charm. 

The game was still great, and I will recommend it to all the fans of stealth genre, but it wasn't a Thief game to me.

 

New galaxy (and, well, any new area, be it Milky Way or Andromeda) will level the playing field. The old alliances will crumble, new ones will be formed, the balance of power will shift. New races will be introduced, technology will advance (especially in case of a new galaxy)... With all those changes, I fear that despite (most likely) being a great game, it won't feel like a Mass Effect game to me.

 

Now why did I write all this? I don't really know, maybe I needed to write down my thoughts to organize them. But I wasn't able to answer the title question. I look forward to reading your comments in hope that they will help me to answer it

[Nitrocuban]

Inb4 milkyway

[SNascimento]

Mass Effect for me is creating my own character and between amazing combat interacting with great characters that inhabit a fantastic "realistic" sci-fi universe. 

And please, read this like HK-47 talking about love. 

[Taki17]

To me, the trilogy (and especially ME1) was about humanity's struggle to fit into the galactic society and about the question syntetich-organic coexistence. These questions were resolved in ME3, so there has to be something linking the new ME to the trilogy and the whole universe in which in takes place.

 

Naturally, there should be relays. It's another galaxy, but so far there's nothing to indicate that the Leviathans/Reapers were only active in the Milky Way. Maybe they could do it Stargate-style, with the new galaxy having a different (newer, since Reapers originate from our galaxy and relays were probably built there) kind of relay, which still shares a lot of similarities in design with the Milky Way relays.

 

The other - and probably the more important part - of the ME-feeling to me was the music. In ME1, Jack Wall and Sam Hulick nailed the music so much, it was perfectly fitting for the epic space opera. Seriously, the techno-scifi sounding of ME1 soundtrack still amazes me. Bring these composers back, there's no ME music without them!

[LisuPL]

Mass Effect is love...

 

Mass Effect... is life...

[MrFob]

There are several crucial points for me that make Mass Effect what it is. I hope I can name them all without forgetting one:
1. The art style: This is probably the most important actually, the way it looks. Sleek lines, lot's of lens flare, lot's of reflections, double barrel guns, the layered hard suits and of course the sweeping arcs everywhere, all that is extremely important. If they were to change that, I'd not recognize it at all. I already have trouble seeing a lot of ME in the comics or in Paragon Lost because they don't quite capture that (interestingly, the Marauder Shields comics capture the art style of the franchise way better than the original comics) .
2. The technology. Give us Eezo and build pretty much everything else on extrapolations of modern day science (more or less). That's when ME is at it's best. There are a few instances when this rule was broken in the trilogy and these are exactly the worst parts of it IMO.
3. The Music. There are a few very distinct themes in the Mass Effect OST. They belong into any ME medium that has music IMO.
4. A protagonist with a space ship. Of course, you can make an ME game where the protagonist doesn't have a space ship but it would diminish the ME experience to no end. Ok, maybe the PC doesn't have to own the ship but space travel in some form at least is crucial. For example, sometimes I hear people ask for a GTA like game on the citadel, I wouldn't want that.
5. A sense of wonder and scale: In ME1 it was the uncharted worlds, in ME2 it was the danger of the terminus systems and in ME3 it was the scale of the war. Every time we had something that gave us this sense of wonder and scale in the ME universe.
6. Prolific characters! Need I say more? In that sense, all the ME publications so far speak for themselves.
 
What I do not need:
- A specific place: I think ME can take place anywhere, new ones, old ones, that doesn't matter
- A specific person: ME is not just Shepard or anyone else. references to old character are good but I can also go with entirely new ones.
- A specific gameplay mechanic: No, it doesn't have to be a shooter-action RPG. I would love to see a space-sim (Freelander in the ME universe!!!),  could imagine an ego shooter with the right story. Even a strategy game (not my favorite genre but hey, that's my problem). ME could be anything, movies, tv series, theme parks ( ) bring it on.

[cap and gown]

There are a number of factors that make a "mass effect" game to me.

 

1) Game play. As much as it is called a shooter, I play ME because I stink at shooting and ME gives me the option to not have to shoot but use magic instead. I am a lot better with spells than guns. So biotics and tech powers.

 

2) The cosmopolitan nature of the setting, including certain key races: Asari, Turian, Salarian, Krogan and Volus. (I could lose the Elcor, Hanar, Vorcha and Drell and not miss much.) The fact that I can wander around a setting like Omega or the Citadel and see numerous different races interacting in a peaceful, social manner. This also includes the multi-species cooperation in terms of government, while still giving each species a degree of autonomy.

 

3) An attempt to hide all of the magicky stuff under a facade of "realism." There is no "force" to explain things. The magic is (most of the time) based on observable and explainable phenomenon, and not some supernatural realm.

 

Point 3 makes Andromeda very problematic for me. The Milky Way is HUGE. HUGE! Why, oh why, would anyone leave it? What's the motivation? How did they get there? And in such numbers? And if we get all the former Council races, why did they all come along? My problem with Andromeda is that it crosses a line where no matter how much hand-waving you do, the scenario is just not credible.

[Revan Reborn]

Mass Effect means a lot of things to me. It means the Citadel and Mass Relays, yes that means the Milky Way as well. First contact. Largely, it's about the human experience and interacting with extraterrestrial life for the first time. It's about the rise of humanity from being an underdog needing to prove itself to a member of the Council races. It's about a mysterious sentient race of machines with plans beyond the comprehension of any organic or synthetic. It's about discovery, exploration, building relationships, and becoming better for them.

 

Mass Effect, in my opinion, is a more grounded and more realistic Star Trek. Humanity isn't the center of the universe. They aren't even the center of the galaxy. We see disputes, conflicts, moral and philosophical questions, and a galaxy built on the principles of democracy and trying to work together to resolve problems. I'd be remiss if I also didn't mention the amazing and iconic soundtrack that each game offers. They are all unique and set their own tone, yet they are also familiar enough to be synonymous with Mass Effect. Above all else, what truly amazes me about Mass Effect is the sense of hope even in the darkest hour. I think this line from Mass Effect 2 encapsulates that quite well: https://youtu.be/pQzB1X6q1vw?t=2m16s

 

I believe if many of these themes and elements are lost in the next Mass Effect, we'll largely have an empty shell of what made Mass Effect so great to start.

[The Arbiter]

I Don't know...sex?

[von uber]

Right now I am not sure it matters to be honest.

[Vazgen]

@Taki17

Why do you think that mass relays are an integral part of the universe? If some other travel system replaces them, do you think it won't feel like Mass Effect? Assuming we still get the travel animation like in the trilogy.

 

@MrFob 

I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't think of art direction. It will certainly go a long way to make the game look like Mass Effect. But won't the visuals change alongside the technology? The art style will most likely stay the same but the in-game elements might not look like anything we've seen in the trilogy. Like that omni-map concept art, for example.

 

@Taki17, @Revan Reborn

I see your points about humanity's place in the galactic society. Though I feel that it was considered with a little care in the trilogy. Like all human Council in ME2 and focus on Earth in ME3. Though I believe a new location will only emphasize that struggle, not outright remove it. 

 

@cap and gown

Point 3 was one of the things that made me fall in love with the series! The initial explanation for the new galaxy will be absolutely required and I fear that they won't give a good-enough explanation. But even if they don't, will you be able to look past it and view the game as Mass Effect if the other points are still in place? I mean, it was the case for me in ME2 (Lazarus project).

[Dobby]

Just a game, plain and simple. Nothing to get my panties in a twist over. 

[wright1978]

The races(Turians, Asari, Salarian, quarian, Krogan etc)
The mass relays were a very big part of what mass effect was.
The first can be transplanted the second can't. If the feel of the technology feels akin then the lack of this iconic mode of transport may not be terminal though.

[Andrew Lucas]

The lore, obviously.

That's what kinda sets me off about a possible Galaxy swap. Soft reboot.

[cap and gown]

 

@cap and gown

Point 3 was one of the things that made me fall in love with the series! The initial explanation for the new galaxy will be absolutely required and I fear that they won't give a good-enough explanation. But even if they don't, will you be able to look past it and view the game as Mass Effect if the other points are still in place? I mean, it was the case for me in ME2 (Lazarus project).

 

Perhaps I can get past it. Gameplay was #1 on my list after all. And there was plenty of stuff in the trilogy that made me grind my teeth in frustration at the total incredibility of the premise. Lazarus. Krogan reproductive rates. The "essence of a species." What I was hoping for in a new title was that we could have a fresh start where the writers purged the non-nonsensical stuff and paid more attention to credibility. Going to Andromeda seems to go against my desire for less non-sense and more believability.

[Revan Reborn]

@Taki17, @Revan Reborn

I see your points about humanity's place in the galactic society. Though I feel that it was considered with a little care in the trilogy. Like all human Council in ME2 and focus on Earth in ME3. Though I believe a new location will only emphasize that struggle, not outright remove it.

I never personally picked the Human Council so I can't speak with respect to that. As far as the Human Reaper and the focus on Earth, I don't believe that was necessarily an over-glorification of "human exceptionalism," but more so a consequence of Shepard's actions. When Shepard defeated Sovereign, the reapers saw a real threat to them for the first time. The Collector's task and Human Reaper were in response to the reaper's curiosity with Shepard. The focus on Earth in ME3 was, again, a continuation of this obsession the reapers seemed to have with Shepard and how dangerous he was to their purpose. I'd say it was really less about humans, in general, and more specifically the fact that Shepard was human and also dangerous.

 

If the survey is to have any shred of validity, it does appear to be yet another story of a prodigal hero saving humanity from yet another, ancient, old evil race of beings. I just really can't believe BioWare would seriously repeat the same story twice.

[MrFob]

@MrFob 
I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't think of art direction. It will certainly go a long way to make the game look like Mass Effect. But won't the visuals change alongside the technology? The art style will most likely stay the same but the in-game elements might not look like anything we've seen in the trilogy. Like that omni-map concept art, for example.

Maybe they will change some specifics and I am fine with that. I am also fine with some new stuff, like e.g. that 3D omni-map design. I am also good (and even hope for) new design elements coming in with new alien races.
But I do hope they will keep the general patterns that they have, especially the combination of the slim elongated shapes, the sweeping arcs and the rather hard lighting they use with lot's of contrast, back lighting (with lens flare!!!) and cold colors.
Those are fundamental design choices that define the franchise IMO and I would be surprised if they abandon it. There is lot's of room to diversify there.
In terms of specifics, I hope we'll se lot's of new stuff of course and the few concept arts we've seen so far look pretty spectacular already.

[Vazgen]

 

Perhaps I can get past it. Gameplay was #1 on my list after all. And there was plenty of stuff in the trilogy that made me grind my teeth in frustration at the total incredibility of the premise. Lazarus. Krogan reproductive rates. The "essence of a species." What I was hoping for in a new title was that we could have a fresh start where the writers purged the non-nonsensical stuff and paid more attention to credibility. Going to Andromeda seems to go against my desire for less non-sense and more believability.

Speaking of believability, check out the Twitter thread

 

I never personally picked the Human Council so I can't speak with respect to that. 

Here is the video: Link

You don't even get to meet them. I was more referring to the fact that the galaxy accepted an all-human Council.

 

Maybe they will change some specifics and I am fine with that. I am also fine with some new stuff, like e.g. that 3D omni-map design. I am also good (and even hope for) new design elements coming in with new alien races.
But I do hope they will keep the general patterns that they have, especially the combination of the slim elongated shapes, the sweeping arcs and the rather hard lighting they use with lot's of contrast, back lighting (with lens flare!!!) and cold colors.
Those are fundamental design choices that define the franchise IMO and I would be surprised if they abandon it. There is lot's of room to diversify there.
In terms of specifics, I hope we'll se lot's of new stuff of course and the few concept arts we've seen so far look pretty spectacular already.

The concept art was great, that one is true. Especially that waterfall buildings Hopefully we'll see some footage at E3 so we can form an opinion on this matter.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Just a game, plain and simple. Nothing to get my panties in a twist over. 

 

I just thought of a great name for a punk band: Twisted Panties.

[Revan Reborn]

Here is the video: Link

You don't even get to meet them. I was more referring to the fact that the galaxy accepted an all-human Council.

Fair enough. I never chose the Renegade choice for that as I always personally felt it would be more beneficial and credible for the galaxy to accept humanity if they sacrificed human lives for other organics. It definitely is quite a large stretch, but I think that's just an example of BioWare trying to provide starkly different choices for the player to have. Ultimately, the Council was relatively irrelevant in the next two games, especially ME2.

[KotorEffect3]

Interesting question and I am not sure I can even give an adequate explanation of what exactly Mass Effect is to me.  I do know this it became more to me than "just another video game franchise" a long time ago.  However I cannot nail my love of Mass Effect down to just one thing or even a handful of things.  There is certainly space opera science fiction aspect of it where you can see elements of it being inspired by Star Trek, Babylon 5 etc...  Then there are the characters Garrus, Wrex, Joker, Tali, Liara, etc...  Characters that are so well written I feel like I know them on a personal basis.  Then there are the gameplay elements to it, the class system, experimenting with different builds, weapon loadouts, squad compositions etc..while it isn't gameplay that is the main draw of the series I do find it quite enjoyable even the first ME has enjoyable gameplay even if it is flawed and antiquated compared to the sequels.

 

In the end however I think what draws me into ME is the setting, it is the different species and all of their unique cultures and histories that keeps me interested,  It is the concept of traveling in space and seeing what is out there and how humanity fits into the larger puzzle.  It is about finding and confronting new challenges and dangers and it is the constant evolving sociopolitical landscape of the galaxy.  So an ME in a new galaxy would not appeal to me as much as seeing how things evolve and change in the Milky Way.  If they do make it post ME 3 (which is what I am hoping) it will be tricky figuring a canon or something they can go with.  Personaly I don't mind if they just pick a canon ending for ME 3 and just run with it (most likely would be destroy).

[CronoDragoon]

It's not one thing, that's for sure. Some things are just inherent in the way BioWare makes games, and not necessarily specific to Mass Effect. However, they are things that - if absent - would make me think that the game doesn't feel like Mass Effect. Those things are:

 

1. Customizable protagonist.

2. Interaction with and robust development of squadmates/characters of the universe.

3. Moral choices/dialogue options

 

The things that are specific to Mass Effect:

 

1. Combat with squadmates that centers around variability in powers such as soldier/tech/biotic. Packaged with this and the above, the ability to customize your character through ability trees, guns, armor.

2. Lore. This includes the old races and history of Mass Effect. And yes, all this would still be intact with an Ark to Andromeda. Krogan and salarians will still dislike each other, krogans will still have gone to war with the Rachni, humans and turians would have still had the First Contact War. Same lore, different place is all.

3. Element zero (also a part of lore, but deserves a separate category). Eezo is the "big lie" of Mass Effect's sci-fi universe and taking it away takes away some of what makes it unique. I find eezo to more integral to Mass Effect than relays, since it's responsible for the Mass Effect in the first place, of which relays are only one expression.

[niniendowarrior]

What is Mass Effect to me?

 

"Enemies regrouping! Time to reload!"

[StealthGamer92]

ME1. The politics, the intrigue, and the exploration. I always just saw ME2 as a spinoff and ME3 a sequel to both(wierd as this sounds) games not just one or the other.