In my opinion, I like the Mass Effect 1 version of renegade Shepard... (S)he was a jerk, a bit of a bully, I guess the "anti-hero." But renegade Shepard in Mass Effect 3? Was just plain ruthless, I didn't even bother playing a full renegade campaign in ME3.
What do you all think? Less evil, more evil, or keep it the same?
ME3 was more ruthless because the stakes were higher compared to the other games.
The actual dialogue was generally better written than the other games. Shepard's tone during ME3's two big choices come across as forceful yet regretful that such means were necessary. She can also express regret over what happened with Mordin and Wrex as well as reasonably explaining her motivation to the latter when confronted. ME3 also focused the Renegade dialogue thematically on sacrifice.
I think ME1 has benefited from a bit of nostalgia goggles and the fact that fan favorites weren't on the receiving end because a lot of the dialogue especially the Renegade stuff wasn't good. A lot of it was just being rude, belittling people, and obnoxious HUMANITY chest thumping with some really awful highlights like screaming "STAY DEAD" during the Rachni genocide choice. It felt like someone forgot this wasn't Kotor and juvenile Dark Side idiocy shouldn't be here.
While I think ME3 came closest to what they were trying to do with Renegade, it would still probably be for the best if the morality system was dropped. It was already mostly vestigial in ME3 and it feels like the genre has really moved past these binary morality scales.
Honestly, they should scrap Paragon/Renegade and do something else
Get rid of the Renegade/Paragon persuasion on lower/upper left and have "renegade/paragon lite" there with a "persuade" option in middle that displays Intimidare/Charm option that were removed from original. That's what I'd like.
Moving the morality system isn't going to do anything to remove the actions and dialogue, which is what actually matters.
Get rid of the Renegade/Paragon persuasion on lower/upper left and have "renegade/paragon lite" there with a "persuade" option in middle that displays Intimidare/Charm option that were removed from original. That's what I'd like.
The persuasion options should just be cut or have their implementation be heavily revised to require more work from the player. Letting people bypass potentially interesting dilemmas with an instant win button isn't desirable.
Not that there should never be an option to get around a problem, it should just require something more involved than grinding reputation points.
The persuasion options should just be cut or have their implementation be heavily revised to require more work from the player. Letting people bypass potentially interesting dilemmas with an instant win button isn't desirable.
I agree, but there are many people who'd throw a fit if it wasn't there so I incorporated it in my version.
I can't stand being evil in ME since most of the renegade options come across as completely ruthless. Some characters I just cannot be mean to (Joker/Tali/Garrus...) and so it made my colonist/war hero jerk with a heart of gold impossible to play. I want to be able to be harsh without my guy exploding at some Quarian Engineer for commenting his ship. Atleast we have neutral dialogue, well atleast until ME3.
The persuasion options should just be cut or have their implementation be heavily revised to require more work from the player. Letting people bypass potentially interesting dilemmas with an instant win button isn't desirable.
Not that there shouldn't never be an option to get around a problem, it should just require something other than grinding reputation points.
Are you out of your mind? No.
The persuasion options were consistently some of the most well written and intelligent lines of dialogue from Shepard. They went a long way to establishing Shepard as a character.
I do not want another dullard protagonist like the Inquisitor, from whom I can literally not remember a single compelling line of dialogue.
This is a video game. It's not a examination. You're going to have to accept that this is not 'work.'
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I think the change in ME3 was deliberate. Like they wanted us to take war seriously...So less of the funny thuggish behavior of ME2. It wouldn't fit as well. But I'd like to go back to that now.
Are you out of your mind? No.
The persuasion options were consistently some of the most well written and intelligent lines of dialogue from Shepard. They went a long way to establishing Shepard as a character.
I do not want another dullard protagonist like the Inquisitor, from whom I can literally not remember a single compelling line of dialogue.
This is a video game. It's not a examination. You're going to have to accept that this is not 'work.'
Paragon was, but for me Renegade should've had mor violence than it did. Like sucker punch the fool then school him after. Like you can do to that crazy scientist dude in ME1's prolouge punched him then told the woman "he was a liability" most Renegade moment in ME1 and I didn't just pull my gun and headshot him.....um....in the chest....wtf?
Are you out of your mind? No.
The persuasion options were consistently some of the most well written and intelligent lines of dialogue from Shepard. They went a long way to establishing Shepard as a character.
I do not want another dullard protagonist like the Inquisitor, from whom I can literally not remember a single compelling line of dialogue.
This is a video game. It's not a examination. You're going to have to accept that this is not 'work.'
"I wouldn't want things in the hold to become... 
UNBEARABLE B)" The Inquisitor to judge a Bear for dishonoring herself in battle.
"I wouldn't want things in the hold to become...
Um can you explain that? I know it wasn't toward me but it's got me trying to figure it out, but I can't.
Are you out of your mind? No.
The persuasion options were consistently some of the most well written and intelligent lines of dialogue from Shepard. They went a long way to establishing Shepard as a character.
I do not want another dullard protagonist like the Inquisitor, from whom I can literally not remember a single compelling line of dialogue.
This is a video game. It's not a examination. You're going to have to accept that this is not 'work.'
Hmm, you're starting to sound an awful lot like David7204 but I know you can't be him because he was permabanned...three times.
And I don't mean "work" as in subjecting a player to a calculus test, they just have to complete the content they paid for and that should be fun after all if the game is good. It is reasonable to require a player to meet certain requirements like for example having certain party members survive, make certain choices in loyalty missions, and rescue a VIP in the Rannoch missions in order to unlock their happy ending. That's much better than just grinding reputation points.
I'm glad to hear it. That's more-or-less reasonable, although writers need to be very careful that the smaller choices and actions in question line up thematically with the big ones. So, for example, if leaving Koris to die and rescuing his crew was presented as the 'best' option, the conclusion would have fallen apart. Nearly all Paragon players would have been screwed.
It's also something you're only going to be able to do a few times per game, if that, since there's only going to be that many 'big choices.' And that's even assuming they have a 'third option' at all. So, since hopefully they'll be a whole lot more persuasion dialogue than that, most of it won't be dependent upon smaller choices or actions since it's a small choice or action itself. Which likely means a persuasion stat of some sort.
Honestly, they should scrap Paragon/Renegade and do something else
Absolutely this. The morality system from ME is a trainwreck. They need to start from scratch for the next ME game.
I do agree with the point made earlier that ME3 choices were so ruthless due to the high stakes of the situation. The more desperate the times, the more extreme the measures taken.
That being said, I'd like to see Renegade take on more of an anti-hero role as opposed to the villain it's been portrayed as during certain choices throughout the franchise. Or maybe there can be the paragon (hero), neutral (anti-hero), and renegade (villain) response. Either way, it needs to be reworked.
Only renegade option that springs to mind as "evil" in ME3 is wiping out a million or so people on Omega. While in ME1 you can extort people for money, kill people or generally mess up their lives because **** 'em or some stupid reason.
You can be quite ruthless or amoral in ME3, like assassinating General What's-his-face, but it's always witht he greater good in mind.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Only renegade option that springs to mind as "evil" in ME3 is wiping out a million or so people on Omega. While in ME1 you can extort people for money, kill people or generally mess up their lives because **** 'em or some stupid reason.
You can be quite ruthless or amoral in ME3, like assassinating General What's-his-face, but it's always witht he greater good in mind.
How is that amoral? He needed to die. It's no different than shooting Joseph Mengele (unfortunately, he was never shot). Most people cheer on the deaths of mad scientists and torturers .
It's even funnier if you're been Paragon with Aria the whole time. "Ha! Look who's the hardass now."
Honestly, they should scrap Paragon/Renegade and do something else
Absolutely this. The morality system from ME is a trainwreck. They need to start from scratch for the next ME game.
This. The morality system was pretty limiting, since you had to commit to one in order to make full use of charm/intimidate. Limited role-playing imo, since my most enjoyable PTs were paragade and renegon.
Plus, sometimes the choices were assigned to paragon or renegade in a weird way, just for the sake of having a paragon/renegade choice. For example, recruiting Morinth (doesn't renegade Shep usually advocate killing potential threats?). Or supporting Cerberus (and in ME1, being a racist). Rewriting the geth heretics (after paragon Shep just established that they think it's as bad as brainwashing an organic).
Guest_StreetMagic_*
This. The morality system was pretty limiting, since you had to commit to one in order to make full use of charm/intimidate. Limited role-playing imo, since my most enjoyable PTs were paragade and renegon.
Plus, sometimes the choices were assigned to paragon or renegade in a weird way, just for the sake of having a paragon/renegade choice. For example, recruiting Morinth (doesn't renegade Shep usually advocate killing potential threats?). Or supporting Cerberus (and in ME1, being a racist). Rewriting the geth heretics (after paragon Shep just established that they think it's as bad as brainwashing an organic).
Yeah, I noticed that about the Geth choice too. It's obviously so different that I wonder if they did it on purpose, just to screw with us (kind of like making TIM and Anderson "blue" and "red" respectively).
Are you out of your mind? No.
The persuasion options were consistently some of the most well written and intelligent lines of dialogue from Shepard. They went a long way to establishing Shepard as a character.
I don't want the persuasion options to be abandoned but I want them to be revamped. We should't have a big "I win button" in the dialogue wheel.
Some characters should react differently to persuasion. Some shouldn't even be persuaded anyway. Other could only be intimidated etc...
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